damn fine speech from RP tbh..
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right......so is this aboot the patch?
I think it is. They are gonna add a new class. The reporter.usmarine wrote:
right......so is this aboot the patch?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
sif, the liberal media reporter is already OPdFlecco wrote:
I think it is. They are gonna add a new class. The reporter.usmarine wrote:
right......so is this aboot the patch?
haha - oops dunno how this ended up here
Gotta respect Ron Paul.
He has a set of principles he lives by and those principles allow him to cut through the BS like a scapel. Good speech.
May be the GOP should look at him to lead the party.
He has a set of principles he lives by and those principles allow him to cut through the BS like a scapel. Good speech.
May be the GOP should look at him to lead the party.
Cept for the whole KKK thing he's alright.Diesel_dyk wrote:
Gotta respect Ron Paul.
He has a set of principles he lives by and those principles allow him to cut through the BS like a scapel. Good speech.
May be the GOP should look at him to lead the party.
If you're referring to the newsletter incident, it's most likely Lew Rockwell that actually wrote that racist diatribe. Granted, why Paul still consults him for advice is beyond me.Cybargs wrote:
Cept for the whole KKK thing he's alright.Diesel_dyk wrote:
Gotta respect Ron Paul.
He has a set of principles he lives by and those principles allow him to cut through the BS like a scapel. Good speech.
May be the GOP should look at him to lead the party.
oops.... Libertarian principles turn to hide an extremists KKK agenda.
Randy Gray organizers for Ron Paul
What Randy Gray thinks
This was news to me... Ron Paul's libertarian principles seem strong, but now I wonder if he's got a hidden agenda.
For me, this sheds new light on his handling of the Rosa Parks thing where he was the only member of congress to vote against awarding her the Congressional Gold Medal citing the cost to the tax payer. At the time I thought that that was principled now I really doubt his intentions.
Thanks for the heads up, I now doubt that he is living by his principles, IMO he is just expressing a scripted set of principles.
Randy Gray organizers for Ron Paul
What Randy Gray thinks
This was news to me... Ron Paul's libertarian principles seem strong, but now I wonder if he's got a hidden agenda.
For me, this sheds new light on his handling of the Rosa Parks thing where he was the only member of congress to vote against awarding her the Congressional Gold Medal citing the cost to the tax payer. At the time I thought that that was principled now I really doubt his intentions.
Thanks for the heads up, I now doubt that he is living by his principles, IMO he is just expressing a scripted set of principles.
Much as he's an unelectable nutjob, he's always bang on the money.
Ron Paul does not believe in regrouping people on bases of race, religion or sexual orientation.
He believe in individuality, no special treatment for anyone.. all human being are equal under the law
Dumb people call him a racist because they don't have any argument against him.
America, you missed your chance to have a great leader who could have put your country back on track.
He believe in individuality, no special treatment for anyone.. all human being are equal under the law
Dumb people call him a racist because they don't have any argument against him.
America, you missed your chance to have a great leader who could have put your country back on track.
Last edited by AutralianChainsaw (2009-05-30 12:51:55)
Randy Gray seems pretty crazy, but yeah, he's not the only nutter that associates with Paul.
I know I've gone back and forth about supporting Paul, but ultimately, I think it comes down to Paul being very correct about certain things while being horribly wrong about others.
Even Gray touches on something rarely spoken about in most prominent political circles -- the negative side to immigration and multiculturalism. The problem is that Gray is missing the forest for the trees.
It's not race that causes problems with regard to immigration -- it's poverty. If we let fewer poor people into our country, our crime would go down considerably in areas like border towns. If we actually enforced border security, illegals wouldn't be burdening our public amenities.
While many people hide behind border security to forward a racist agenda, it's not race that makes an illegal a problem for our system. Instead, we have valid issues concerning poverty, crime, and disease. Yet any relevant progress made in discussing these topics is tarnished by racists like Gray. Because people like him exist, it's easy for the opposite side to paint all border security advocates as racist.
With Paul, it's something similar. He makes plenty of valid points about fighting against the military industrial complex and rampant interventionism, but his message is tarnished by his extreme views on other topics.
Similarly, many antiwar people are also conspiracy theorists, so while they might appropriately point out the ulterior motives of war profiteers, they also believe in pretty unlikely government plots.
In conclusion, I guess it comes down to this. People like Paul are important contributors to our system because they address things few others bother with, but they must be taken with a grain (or sometimes a bucket) of salt due to their less logical positions on other topics.
I know I've gone back and forth about supporting Paul, but ultimately, I think it comes down to Paul being very correct about certain things while being horribly wrong about others.
Even Gray touches on something rarely spoken about in most prominent political circles -- the negative side to immigration and multiculturalism. The problem is that Gray is missing the forest for the trees.
It's not race that causes problems with regard to immigration -- it's poverty. If we let fewer poor people into our country, our crime would go down considerably in areas like border towns. If we actually enforced border security, illegals wouldn't be burdening our public amenities.
While many people hide behind border security to forward a racist agenda, it's not race that makes an illegal a problem for our system. Instead, we have valid issues concerning poverty, crime, and disease. Yet any relevant progress made in discussing these topics is tarnished by racists like Gray. Because people like him exist, it's easy for the opposite side to paint all border security advocates as racist.
With Paul, it's something similar. He makes plenty of valid points about fighting against the military industrial complex and rampant interventionism, but his message is tarnished by his extreme views on other topics.
Similarly, many antiwar people are also conspiracy theorists, so while they might appropriately point out the ulterior motives of war profiteers, they also believe in pretty unlikely government plots.
In conclusion, I guess it comes down to this. People like Paul are important contributors to our system because they address things few others bother with, but they must be taken with a grain (or sometimes a bucket) of salt due to their less logical positions on other topics.
Even if Ron Paul doesn't 100% agree with this Randy Gray, it was 100% crazy to have a guy like that orgainizing his campaign for him.
Its either tacit agreement with Gray's message or at the least it grants Gray and Gray's supporters the appearance of legitimacy.
Either way its a big mistake by RP and like I said I now question his vote on Rosa Parks.
But his libertarian speech, sans inflection of racism, still stands strong, it's just that I now question the motives of the man delivering the speech because he could have a hidden agenda or like I said he has shown poor judgment in whom he associates with.
On the immigration note. most other countries use a point system for immigration and take people who are skilled and have money to support themselves. The problem with the US immigration system is that it permits the importation of manual laborers and drives down the wages for those jobs below what a citizen would or could consider to be a wage that would provide a minimum or moderate life style. Dependance on cheap foreign labor is the real issue and that I think creates the immigration poverty issue that you describe.
On the mulitculturalism thing, I don't see how that's a problem for the US. The only problem concerning multiculturalism is that certain groups believe that there is a homogeneous American culture that is largely defined as being white and baptist/protestant christian and who refuse to accept that the US is in fact multicultral. If you look at from the multicultural stand point, fighting for govt protection of a minority white Christian culture looks a lot like affirmative action or socialism.
omg the KKK are a minority group espousing a socialist agenda and seeking govt protection lolz
Its either tacit agreement with Gray's message or at the least it grants Gray and Gray's supporters the appearance of legitimacy.
Either way its a big mistake by RP and like I said I now question his vote on Rosa Parks.
But his libertarian speech, sans inflection of racism, still stands strong, it's just that I now question the motives of the man delivering the speech because he could have a hidden agenda or like I said he has shown poor judgment in whom he associates with.
On the immigration note. most other countries use a point system for immigration and take people who are skilled and have money to support themselves. The problem with the US immigration system is that it permits the importation of manual laborers and drives down the wages for those jobs below what a citizen would or could consider to be a wage that would provide a minimum or moderate life style. Dependance on cheap foreign labor is the real issue and that I think creates the immigration poverty issue that you describe.
On the mulitculturalism thing, I don't see how that's a problem for the US. The only problem concerning multiculturalism is that certain groups believe that there is a homogeneous American culture that is largely defined as being white and baptist/protestant christian and who refuse to accept that the US is in fact multicultral. If you look at from the multicultural stand point, fighting for govt protection of a minority white Christian culture looks a lot like affirmative action or socialism.
omg the KKK are a minority group espousing a socialist agenda and seeking govt protection lolz
Ron Paul on Rosa Parks
It's easy for members of congress to vote on anything to spend the tax payers money as long as it is not their own money.
It's easy for members of congress to vote on anything to spend the tax payers money as long as it is not their own money.
Absolutely. Not to mention the fact that employers of illegals are a large voting bloc. No one wants to prosecute employers of illegals, because that would piss off a lot of people who vote regularly.Diesel_dyk wrote:
On the immigration note. most other countries use a point system for immigration and take people who are skilled and have money to support themselves. The problem with the US immigration system is that it permits the importation of manual laborers and drives down the wages for those jobs below what a citizen would or could consider to be a wage that would provide a minimum or moderate life style. Dependance on cheap foreign labor is the real issue and that I think creates the immigration poverty issue that you describe.
Agreed. That's where people like Gray go crazy. They see it in terms of race.Diesel_dyk wrote:
On the mulitculturalism thing, I don't see how that's a problem for the US. The only problem concerning multiculturalism is that certain groups believe that there is a homogeneous American culture that is largely defined as being white and baptist/protestant christian and who refuse to accept that the US is in fact multicultral. If you look at from the multicultural stand point, fighting for govt protection of a minority white Christian culture looks a lot like affirmative action or socialism.
The only cultural things I'd like to protect are Constitutional rights like free speech. I only have a problem with multiculturalism when it results in appeasement for cultures that are easily offended. For example, hate speech is a broad term used to justify silencing criticism of certain cultural practices and viewpoints.
I saw that when it happened and at the time I thought man how could someone disagree with Rosa Parks getting an award, then I saw RP's statement and thought that's a really principled guy and his reasons make a lot of sense. But, now I wonder... I would agree with his reasons in the video, but I wouldn't agree with him if his reason was that Rosa Parks shouldn't get the award because she was black or a criminal or some other racist thing. I would like to think that he doesn't think like that, but because of who he let's organize for him, for me I have to wonder as its not so clear. I'll have to wrestle with that and see what RP does in the future.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Ron Paul on Rosa Parks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-0AXWV8so
It's easy for members of congress to vote on anything to spend the tax payers money as long as it is not their own money.
Our country is so fucked by its politicians that it's gonna take an extremist (from either side) like Ron Paul to get anything done or to even stand a chance at remotely changing anything.
ron paul is a fucking retard. his ideas would never work and people with a brain know it. so instead of saying what people want to hear, how about you try and fix what is. not go off in lal la land and make stupid claims.
I understand your concern.. You can be sure that Ron Paul doesnt have a hidden racist agenda... The man follow the constitution and like he said in the video, he is for civil disobeidience (sp) and he admire Rosa Parks. He just not believe that tax payers money should be used to give her an award.. He would do the same if the award was for a white person. 30 000$ is not much but when you follow your principles, the amount of money is irrelevant. Just think of how he would handle the federal budget.. no amount of money would be wasted like it is right now under Obama administation and before under Bush.Diesel_dyk wrote:
I saw that when it happened and at the time I thought man how could someone disagree with Rosa Parks getting an award, then I saw RP's statement and thought that's a really principled guy and his reasons make a lot of sense. But, now I wonder... I would agree with his reasons in the video, but I wouldn't agree with him if his reason was that Rosa Parks shouldn't get the award because she was black or a criminal or some other racist thing. I would like to think that he doesn't think like that, but because of who he let's organize for him, for me I have to wonder as its not so clear. I'll have to wrestle with that and see what RP does in the future.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Ron Paul on Rosa Parks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-0AXWV8so
It's easy for members of congress to vote on anything to spend the tax payers money as long as it is not their own money.
I have to admit that RP is a little naive.. He made a lot of mistake trusting people who should never have been trusted in the first place.. think of the newsletter and not that white supremacist guy. I am pretty sure that RP would have never hired that guy if he knew what this man stand for. And he probably never hired him personnaly since he was an campaign organizer for a small county. Guilt by association does not apply in this case.. Ron Paul is far from being racist.. that's just the argument of weak minded people who cannot find anything else against him.
Name calling again.. that's some strong argument..usmarine wrote:
ron paul is a fucking retard. his ideas would never work and people with a brain know it. so instead of saying what people want to hear, how about you try and fix what is. not go off in lal la land and make stupid claims.
You say that his ideas would never work.. Are Obama's idea working now? Or Bush's idea? What are you suggestions?
Instead of acting like a clueless asshole, can you provide some answers?
Oh yeah i forgot, i am typing to a guy who was crazy about Sarah Palin when she was chosen by McCain
Did you like Palin ideas? Or maybe you were just hitting on her?
Ill try to help you.. First, you have to cut the spending.. don't spend the money you don't have.. Don't bail out failed businesses and let healty businesses buy the failed ones. It will be hard for a number of years to fix the mess of previous administrations but it is something you have to do. Forget about useless war abroad.. close costly military bases and let the world take care of regional conflict. Let Israel kick the asses of their enemy the way they want. Stop all aid to foreign nations. There is no threat from Iran or NK to your homeland. If NK dare launching a ICBM toward the US, you will have all the time needed to intercept it and you will have all the right to bomb the hell out of them after.
Secure your borders.. Use the military of needed to seal the border with Mexico.. Give jobs to americans first..
All those idea are from the only real conservative in your goverment. Ron Paul.
Are you a conservative?
like i said. his ideas are great. anyone can say that shit. making it happen is a different story.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Name calling again.. that's some strong argument..usmarine wrote:
ron paul is a fucking retard. his ideas would never work and people with a brain know it. so instead of saying what people want to hear, how about you try and fix what is. not go off in lal la land and make stupid claims.
You say that his ideas would never work.. Are Obama's idea working now? Or Bush's idea? What are you suggestions?
Instead of acting like a clueless asshole, can you provide some answers?
Oh yeah i forgot, i am typing to a guy who was crazy about Sarah Palin when she was chosen by McCain
Did you like Palin ideas? Or maybe you were just hitting on her?
Ill try to help you.. First, you have to cut the spending.. don't spend the money you don't have.. Don't bail out failed businesses and let healty businesses buy the failed ones. It will be hard for a number of years to fix the mess of previous administrations but it is something you have to do. Forget about useless war abroad.. close costly military bases and let the world take care of regional conflict. Let Israel kick the asses of their enemy the way they want. Stop all aid to foreign nations. There is no threat from Iran or NK to your homeland. If NK dare launching a ICBM toward the US, you will have all the time needed to intercept it and you will have all the right to bomb the hell out of them after.
Secure your borders.. Use the military of needed to seal the border with Mexico.. Give jobs to americans first..
All those idea are from the only real conservative in your goverment. Ron Paul.
Are you a conservative?
I digg it
The idea of preventing the failure of banks and major businesses and the idea of giving a home to all poor people in America are great ideas.. Anyone can say that shit while campaigning for the Presidency.usmarine wrote:
like i said. his ideas are great. anyone can say that shit. making it happen is a different story.
The messiah Obama is in the process of realizing all that (with the consequence of destrying the US dollar and bankrupting your country). You think it is easy for him to do that? Yes it is... He is doing it right now
How hard compare to that is it to accomplish RP's ideas? Close military bases? Stop giving aid to foreign nations? Get out of Iraq? Secure the border with troops? Stop bailing out failed businesses?
You can acomplish all that without bankrupting your economy.. you will instantly save money.. Save the lives of a bunch of US soldiers without any REAL threat to your homeland. I'm not saying that all the problemes would be solved instantly, RP himself said that it could take years for the economy to recover but at least, after that everything would be fine.. No excessive spending is the key. And with a man like RP who even vote against spending 30K for a gold medal, you know that your economy would be in safe hands.
What are the consequences of doing RP ideas compare to what Obama is doing?
you seem to be missing my point. i DO agree with most that stuff. but, he aint in charge. never will be. so idc what he says.
Ok mein fuhrer.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
The idea of preventing the failure of banks and major businesses and the idea of giving a home to all poor people in America are great ideas.. Anyone can say that shit while campaigning for the Presidency.usmarine wrote:
like i said. his ideas are great. anyone can say that shit. making it happen is a different story.
The messiah Obama is in the process of realizing all that (with the consequence of destrying the US dollar and bankrupting your country). You think it is easy for him to do that? Yes it is... He is doing it right now
How hard compare to that is it to accomplish RP's ideas? Close military bases? Stop giving aid to foreign nations? Get out of Iraq? Secure the border with troops? Stop bailing out failed businesses?
You can acomplish all that without bankrupting your economy.. you will instantly save money.. Save the lives of a bunch of US soldiers without any REAL threat to your homeland. I'm not saying that all the problemes would be solved instantly, RP himself said that it could take years for the economy to recover but at least, after that everything would be fine.. No excessive spending is the key. And with a man like RP who even vote against spending 30K for a gold medal, you know that your economy would be in safe hands.
What are the consequences of doing RP ideas compare to what Obama is doing?
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