Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5886

With budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax.

"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."

The federal budget deficit is projected to approach $1.3 trillion next year, the highest ever except for this year, when the deficit is forecast to exceed $1.8 trillion. The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors, who are growing increasingly uneasy about the security of their investments. Unless Congress comes up with some serious cash, expanding the nation's health-care system will only add to the problem.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … id=topnews
So on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being complete impossibility and 10 being absolute certainty, do you think the U.S. will get a VAT?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6454|what

Increase services = increase in taxes.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6849|San Diego, CA, USA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a VAT a tax at each level of a item's purchase?  Right now a business doesn't pay tax on the raw materials for an item, but do have to collect taxes on the final item.  A VAT would tax anytime there's a transaction, correct?
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6849|San Diego, CA, USA

AussieReaper wrote:

Increase services = increase in taxes.
Increase services for the non-productive = increased taxes for the productive

Fixed.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6454|what

Harmor wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Increase services = increase in taxes.
Increase services for the non-productive = increased taxes for the productive

Fixed.
"The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors"

Does the non-productive in America equate to 46% of the population?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6706|North Carolina
VATs are pretty common.  To use your scale, I'd put it at a 7.

It's not a question of if, but of when.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7017
if they can think of a tax... they will do it... it's for our own good...they know what we need... demreps and the pres...

like someone else wrote...
"I like President Obama's approach. All we need to do is to print enough currency and we'll all be rich and we won't have to hit a lick at a snake. We raise taxes on the "rich" and the rest of us go on welfare. We can hang out and screw and take drugs and His Excellency will pay for it. As a child of the sixties I find that program quite attractive."
Love is the answer
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6706|North Carolina

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

if they can think of a tax... they will do it... it's for our own good...they know what we need... demreps and the pres...

like someone else wrote...
"I like President Obama's approach. All we need to do is to print enough currency and we'll all be rich and we won't have to hit a lick at a snake. We raise taxes on the "rich" and the rest of us go on welfare. We can hang out and screw and take drugs and His Excellency will pay for it. As a child of the sixties I find that program quite attractive."
The Fair Tax is a national sales tax.  I didn't hear conservatives complaining about that.

Granted, it is proposed as a replacement for the income tax....
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6819|Montucky
I like being in one of what 2 states that don't have a fucking sales tax..
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6706|North Carolina

S3v3N wrote:

I like being in one of what 2 states that don't have a fucking sales tax..
I think there's like 8 without a sales tax, just like there's about 8 without an income tax.  One has neither...  Alaska.
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6819|Montucky

Turquoise wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

I like being in one of what 2 states that don't have a fucking sales tax..
I think there's like 8 without a sales tax, just like there's about 8 without an income tax.  One has neither...  Alaska.
I couldn't remember, I know Montana and Oregon fo shizzle.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6881|the dank(super) side of Oregon
no sales tax and poor people pump my gas for me.    heaven
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7017

Turquoise wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

if they can think of a tax... they will do it... it's for our own good...they know what we need... demreps and the pres...

like someone else wrote...
"I like President Obama's approach. All we need to do is to print enough currency and we'll all be rich and we won't have to hit a lick at a snake. We raise taxes on the "rich" and the rest of us go on welfare. We can hang out and screw and take drugs and His Excellency will pay for it. As a child of the sixties I find that program quite attractive."
The Fair Tax is a national sales tax.  I didn't hear conservatives complaining about that.

Granted, it is proposed as a replacement for the income tax....
demreps    both sides
Love is the answer
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7072|PNW

Taxes are horrid enough as it is. I couldn't imagine living in a state with both sales and income tax...then getting hit with a federal sales tax as well as the income tax.
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6955

If it costs so much fucking money, and we're in a goddamn major deficit, maybe Obama should be more worried about balancing the budget by cutting programs and not doing his dumbass national healthcare bullshit.


Sadly I do think this national tax could possibly get passed. I just hope it doesn't.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7060|San Antonio, Texas

AussieReaper wrote:

Harmor wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Increase services = increase in taxes.
Increase services for the non-productive = increased taxes for the productive

Fixed.
"The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors"

Does the non-productive in America equate to 46% of the population?
That sounds about right.

(And it CBS not FOX...)

CBS News wrote:

An astonishing 43.4 percent of Americans now pay zero or negative federal income taxes.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7072|PNW

mtb0minime wrote:

If it costs so much fucking money, and we're in a goddamn major deficit, maybe Obama should be more worried about balancing the budget by cutting programs and not doing his dumbass national healthcare bullshit.


Sadly I do think this national tax could possibly get passed. I just hope it doesn't.
Well...congressmen still have to get elected.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7060|San Antonio, Texas

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

mtb0minime wrote:

If it costs so much fucking money, and we're in a goddamn major deficit, maybe Obama should be more worried about balancing the budget by cutting programs and not doing his dumbass national healthcare bullshit.


Sadly I do think this national tax could possibly get passed. I just hope it doesn't.
Well...congressmen still have to get elected.
But hope and change. And Bush made this deficit, we'll fix it. Anywho, we're just fucked and it actually did start with Bush 43 and his damn bailouts.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6706|North Carolina

mtb0minime wrote:

If it costs so much fucking money, and we're in a goddamn major deficit, maybe Obama should be more worried about balancing the budget by cutting programs and not doing his dumbass national healthcare bullshit.


Sadly I do think this national tax could possibly get passed. I just hope it doesn't.
Well, if he ditched Social Security, we could have socialized medicine and actually spend less overall than we currently do.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6454|what

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Harmor wrote:


Increase services for the non-productive = increased taxes for the productive

Fixed.
"The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors"

Does the non-productive in America equate to 46% of the population?
That sounds about right.

(And it CBS not FOX...)

CBS News wrote:

An astonishing 43.4 percent of Americans now pay zero or negative federal income taxes.
"Federal income taxes"

Have a look at some of the state taxes Cali is enjoying at the moment...

Although, the states are going to be bailed out by the Feds somehow.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7060|San Antonio, Texas

AussieReaper wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

"The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors"

Does the non-productive in America equate to 46% of the population?
That sounds about right.

(And it CBS not FOX...)

CBS News wrote:

An astonishing 43.4 percent of Americans now pay zero or negative federal income taxes.
"Federal income taxes"

Have a look at some of the state taxes Cali is enjoying at the moment...

Although, the states are going to be bailed out by the Feds somehow.
Have a look at the progressive programs they are running there. They could easily get rid of their dept of they cut  unnecessary programs and policies and taped into their own natural resources.

God help us all...


Turquoise wrote:

mtb0minime wrote:

If it costs so much fucking money, and we're in a goddamn major deficit, maybe Obama should be more worried about balancing the budget by cutting programs and not doing his dumbass national healthcare bullshit.


Sadly I do think this national tax could possibly get passed. I just hope it doesn't.
Well, if he ditched Social Security, we could have socialized medicine and actually spend less overall than we currently do.
Social Security should have been axed or at least privatized in the first place. And do you REALLY think that the government can run the medical sector better then the private sector? (READ: DMV or any other government bureaucracy.) What has jacked up the medical prices is insurance and people's willingness to pay that high price.

Last edited by {M5}Sniper3 (2009-05-26 21:42:35)

Reciprocity
Member
+721|6881|the dank(super) side of Oregon

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

What has jacked up the medical prices is insurance and people's willingness to pay that high price.
yeah, it must be all that damned willingness.
BVC
Member
+325|6996
Depends.

We got GST (a type of VAT) in the 80s.  It was initially implemented in order to simplify the tax system - different goods and services attracted different rates, these were all replaced with a flat 10% rate, which was later increased to 12.5% once the recession started hitting in 89.  It hasn't gone down since, but income & company tax has.  Businesses can claim GST paid on supplies against GST paid on sales.

Last edited by Pubic (2009-05-26 23:03:29)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7111|Nårvei

In norway we have 25% VAT on regular goods and services, and 12% on food, no VAT on newspapers or public transport ...

Harmor wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a VAT a tax at each level of a item's purchase?  Right now a business doesn't pay tax on the raw materials for an item, but do have to collect taxes on the final item.  A VAT would tax anytime there's a transaction, correct?
Basically yes, it varies from country to country what is taxed and how much ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6680|MN

AussieReaper wrote:

Harmor wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Increase services = increase in taxes.
Increase services for the non-productive = increased taxes for the productive

Fixed.
"The Treasury is borrowing 46 cents of every dollar it spends, largely from China and other foreign creditors"

Does the non-productive in America equate to 46% of the population?
Looks like it.

I have the answer though.  We have several options:

1.  Keep the spending the same and raise taxes 46%.

2.  Keep the taxes the same and decrease spending 46%.

3.  Keep the taxes the same and decrease spending more than 46% to pay down debt.

4.  Keep the spending the same and raise taxes more than 46% to pay down debt.

5.  Decrease spending some percentage and Increase taxes some percentage of which the sum is 46% or greater if you want to pay down debt.

6.  Lots more options I am sure.

MORE ON TOPIC: 

If the US government could pull something like this off without increasing taxes overall while simplifying the tax code, I would be amazed.  We have way too much faith in our government's wisdom.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)

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