a weak national security does little to re-enforce a police force. In fact a weak ass national security will do nothing except make their jobs even harder.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
Agreed.
Always nice to share ideas and views, I have respect for you ideals and values but it doesn´t mean I share them 100%.
How about redirecting some taxes that goes into wars, into the policeforce instead? Or perhaps even bordercontrol/customs? I speak of direct experience from both parties here, and trust me It´s not anyway near enough, not anywhere , not if the goverments all across the world are serious about theese issues.
Well, Australia is kinda hardass, but most others....meh.
Yup I watched the video, and I saw nothing that made me feel sorry for the criminal. In fact learning he actually survived was quite a bummer.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Did you even watch the video? The vehicle rolled and ejected the guy they were chasing. He wasn't even moving by the time they got to him. This wasn't like Rodney King.lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.
Edit: Sure, there's your reverse lesson involved (don't run from cops; when they got you they got you), but they could've been beating on a corpse.
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.mikkel wrote:
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?lowing wrote:
Yup I am, I just refuse to crimonalize cops in such situations.mikkel wrote:
I'm sorry, lowing, but the behaviour exhibited by the officers in this video is criminal. Your problem is simply that you're not consistent in your vociferous hatred of criminals.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
should have beat him harder
Ok, agree to disagree. However I feel I set the bar where it can more easily assist catching criminals and keeping our police safer. If someone has to get hurt, killed or even beaten, let it be the criminal and no one else.Diesel_dyk wrote:
Bingo, give the man a cigar, check you humanity at the door when you put on a badge and a gun. That's what professionals do, they check their emotions.lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
I would dispute the notion that being unemotional/professional makes for a weak police force. When miranda rights first came in similar arguments were made about cops have a tougher job etc etc, when in fact it made cops better and the evidence they collected stronger because the public had moire confidence that they could rely on the word of a cop. When cops are caught on camera behaving like a pack of wild dogs, or throwing high fives after beating a guy, they are hurting the reputation of all police and making the job of good professional/unemotional cops harder.
I had a friend who liked to watch college sports because of the emotion the players showed and he said he liked college sports better than professinal sports because the athletes showed emotion.
To which I said, if I wanted emotion out of an athlete I'd watch the special olympics. I prefer professional sports because its about execution and training skill to the level of perfection.
I certainly wouldn't want any emotional cripples with a gun and badge.
Anyway saying "I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described." That's something I can understand and its a heck of lot more honest than implying everyone else are cop haters and that the cops can do anything they want.
Then the only difference is that I set the bar of expectation higher, and Lowing, you set the bar lower.
So your opinion is that as long if someone is wearing a badge, they can do what they want?lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.mikkel wrote:
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?lowing wrote:
Yup I am, I just refuse to crimonalize cops in such situations.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
P.S. Is it just me or is cop crime really sky rocketing lately? Can't wait to start reading about Firefighters hitting people with ax's.
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-05-22 07:35:05)
Don't you mean "Should have waited till he got back to the police station and was awake to beat him?"usmarine wrote:
should have beat him harder
tbh, he got what he deserved after nearly running over the cop. I would have beat his ass too.usmarine wrote:
should have beat him harder
The Thing I find most disturbing about this is that they can shut there video camera's off.
P.S. That should be a terminating offense, if an on duty police officer shuts off his patrol car camera he is immediately dismissed
P.S. That should be a terminating offense, if an on duty police officer shuts off his patrol car camera he is immediately dismissed
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-05-22 07:39:40)
There would be no clear line, and I am not looking for one. Criminals should be afraid of cops. Cops should not be afraid to engage criminals worrying about their jobs at every encounter, second guessing an imaginary play book wondering if they are covered. They have my support in their efforts and they deserve yours. I want them catching criminals not worrying about having their actions disected at every arrest by armchair quaterbacks looking for a chance to throw a cop in jail.Spark wrote:
So where does the line be drawn? If not with the law, then where?lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
you are such a sally sparkSpark wrote:
So where does the line be drawn? If not with the law, then where?
Never said that and you are going to the extreme. I siad in scenerios such as the examples posted I understand the cops frustrations and their reactions. I sympathize with them and couldn't care less if the criminal lived or died, actually his death would have resulted in alot of saved taxpayer money.cpt.fass1 wrote:
So your opinion is that as long if someone is wearing a badge, they can do what they want?lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.mikkel wrote:
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
P.S. Is it just me or is cop crime really sky rocketing lately? Can't wait to start reading about Firefighters hitting people with ax's.
Criminality is defined by the law, not your personal opinion. So you're not really against criminals as a whole, just the criminals you don't agree with? Cool.lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.mikkel wrote:
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?lowing wrote:
Yup I am, I just refuse to crimonalize cops in such situations.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail. So no, they are not criminals. So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.mikkel wrote:
Criminality is defined by the law, not your personal opinion. So you're not really against criminals as a whole, just the criminals you don't agree with? Cool.lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.mikkel wrote:
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
I still want to know what he did. I bet it was probably something stupid, he was illegal, and didn't want to get deported.lowing wrote:
Never said that and you are going to the extreme. I siad in scenerios such as the examples posted I understand the cops frustrations and their reactions. I sympathize with them and couldn't care less if the criminal lived or died, actually his death would have resulted in alot of saved taxpayer money.cpt.fass1 wrote:
So your opinion is that as long if someone is wearing a badge, they can do what they want?lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
P.S. Is it just me or is cop crime really sky rocketing lately? Can't wait to start reading about Firefighters hitting people with ax's.
There are a lot of stressful jobs out there, one's that are dangerous and ones that hold power. When people fuck up at their jobs they're terminated. If we allow these actions to go unchecked there will be more and the police force will and start abusing the power more. At what point do you take a step back and say "oh that's fucked", is it one of the two guys get shot? Is it when the national guard are getting called in to replace the police force? When do you stop defending the governments "GANG". Hey if I get robbed the criminal might get 40 to 100 dollars, I might get hurt, but it ends there. I get a jay walking ticket it's 40 dollars, I might have to go to court, miss a day of work 300 dollars..
Boy, you're naïve.lowing wrote:
If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail.mikkel wrote:
Criminality is defined by the law, not your personal opinion. So you're not really against criminals as a whole, just the criminals you don't agree with? Cool.lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
But wait, didn't you just say..lowing wrote:
So no, they are not criminals.
.. ? Are you being a bit indecisive today, lowing?lowing wrote:
I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong.
Opinion? Dear lowing, if you can show me anything challenging the illegality of physically attacking an unconscious person, I'd be happy to concede your point. I just don't think you can. This is police brutality in every way, shape and form. The only force police can use in a situation like this is to subdue the individual. Being unconscious is about as subdued as you can get.lowing wrote:
So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.
Last edited by mikkel (2009-05-22 08:10:20)
Or have been let off because of the extenuating circumstances - adrenalin, being provoked etc. Which is why I believe there is no way they should face any charges over this. But they are demonstrating they can't keep their cool under pressure and so they shouldn't be in the job, which is why it is right to fire them.lowing wrote:
If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail. So no, they are not criminals. So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.mikkel wrote:
Criminality is defined by the law, not your personal opinion. So you're not really against criminals as a whole, just the criminals you don't agree with? Cool.lowing wrote:
This is a matter of MY opinion. I know, tragically, in the eyes of the law these cops are wrong. It is just I personally have no problem with it.
To me, these cops are not criminals and I would have no problem with them keeping hteir badges. The guy that caused all of this should have never woken up.
Also, you're not being very consistent. The two highlighted sections completely contradict each other. If you are doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the law (i.e. breaking it), you are a criminal. It's not complicated.
So now one can not be "wrong" without also being a criminal.. I seeBertster7 wrote:
Or have been let off because of the extenuating circumstances - adrenalin, being provoked etc. Which is why I believe there is no way they should face any charges over this. But they are demonstrating they can't keep their cool under pressure and so they shouldn't be in the job, which is why it is right to fire them.lowing wrote:
If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail. So no, they are not criminals. So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.mikkel wrote:
Criminality is defined by the law, not your personal opinion. So you're not really against criminals as a whole, just the criminals you don't agree with? Cool.
Also, you're not being very consistent. The two highlighted sections completely contradict each other. If you are doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the law (i.e. breaking it), you are a criminal. It's not complicated.
Well if this was a personal matter and the parties involved weren't police officers, all parties would have been arrested. So viewing the "Criminal's" case, he was committing a crime, because you don't run from the law. But in the Officers defense they were wound up from adrenaline and weren't committing a crime..lowing wrote:
So now one can not be "wrong" without also being a criminal.. I seeBertster7 wrote:
Or have been let off because of the extenuating circumstances - adrenalin, being provoked etc. Which is why I believe there is no way they should face any charges over this. But they are demonstrating they can't keep their cool under pressure and so they shouldn't be in the job, which is why it is right to fire them.lowing wrote:
If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail. So no, they are not criminals. So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.
Also, you're not being very consistent. The two highlighted sections completely contradict each other. If you are doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the law (i.e. breaking it), you are a criminal. It's not complicated.
But they shut off the camera, so that shows and proves that it wasn't a crime of passion like you said?
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-05-22 12:59:28)
We'd like to think that because these guys are wearing badges that they are some sort of superhumans, immune to the effects of adrenaline. The fact is that no amount of training can guarantee anyone the ability to turn it off in an instant. I'm not saying that what happened is excusable, but we definitely need to consider the very real physiological condition that officers must deal with when we ask them to defend the public.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Well, I don't know what crime he committed (if it was mentioned in the vid, I forgot), so I don't know whether to feel sorry for him or not. And I can't be assed looking it up.lowing wrote:
Yup I watched the video, and I saw nothing that made me feel sorry for the criminal. In fact learning he actually survived was quite a bummer.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Did you even watch the video? The vehicle rolled and ejected the guy they were chasing. He wasn't even moving by the time they got to him. This wasn't like Rodney King.lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.
Edit: Sure, there's your reverse lesson involved (don't run from cops; when they got you they got you), but they could've been beating on a corpse.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-22 13:02:07)
They knew what they were doing was wrong, that's why the camera went off, and defending the public means obeying the same laws they are sworn to protect. Once that boundary is crossed they need to be fired and arrested, even the notion that crossing the line even once is not allowed.Kmarion wrote:
We'd like to think that because these guys are wearing badges that they are some sort of superhumans, immune to the effects of adrenaline. The fact is that no amount of training can guarantee anyone the ability to turn it off in an instant. I'm not saying that what happened is excusable, but we definitely need to consider the very real physiological condition that officers must deal with when we ask them to defend the public.
Would you want a school bus driver showing up to work drunk. It's a stressfull job and he only did it once right?
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-05-22 13:11:18)
Let's get rid of police forces...lol
so the criminals won't be impeded when they are trying to rob.. steal... sell drugs etc... we have been very inconsiderate of their needs...
and for that i apologize to all lawbreakers that put others at risk...
so the criminals won't be impeded when they are trying to rob.. steal... sell drugs etc... we have been very inconsiderate of their needs...
and for that i apologize to all lawbreakers that put others at risk...
Love is the answer
I don't understand how anyone can think that letting people who break the law, get away with it especially if they're the ones who are suppose to defend it?[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Let's get rid of police forces...lol
so the criminals won't be impeded when they are trying to rob.. steal... sell drugs etc... we have been very inconsiderate of their needs...
and for that i apologize to all lawbreakers that put others at risk...
The cameras went off? Do you mean after the fact? Did you miss my entire point?cpt.fass1 wrote:
They knew what they were doing was wrong, that's why the camera went off, and defending the public means obeying the same laws they are sworn to protect. Once that boundary is crossed they need to be fired and arrested, even the notion that crossing the line even once is not allowed.Kmarion wrote:
We'd like to think that because these guys are wearing badges that they are some sort of superhumans, immune to the effects of adrenaline. The fact is that no amount of training can guarantee anyone the ability to turn it off in an instant. I'm not saying that what happened is excusable, but we definitely need to consider the very real physiological condition that officers must deal with when we ask them to defend the public.
I did not say there shouldn't have been some sort of discipline. What I said, and what you clearly missed, was that the punishment should consider all of the circumstances. The general public is not asked to engage and pursue. If we are demanding an elevated level of confrontation out of a person then we should expect (at times) everything that comes with it. If I saw someone miss killing a friend or family member by inches I can guarantee you that the beating would have exceeded 6 seconds.
Xbone Stormsurgezz