interstate
negative
Tu Stultus Es
Exactly. Most of the hybrids I see on my commute to work are flying by in the left lane while I'm cruising 65-70 for gas mileage.RTHKI wrote:
half the hybrid drivers dont drive correctly anyway
When I bought my LAST vehicle (I understand technology has probably improved in the last 7 years of so) I was looking at Hybrids. A buddy of mine had one and loved it, so I looked into them. The Hybrid ran about $12K more for the exact same features. It was rated for about 9 MPG more than the gas model. (From 29 to 38). At the time, gas was just under $3/gallon so I used $4/gallon in my calculations to adjust for possible inflation over the next few years. My normal annual driving average is about 10,000 miles. I used 15,000 miles in my calculations, just to be sure. All of my corrections were in favor of the Hybrid.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
1) gov't gives you tax break for buying a hybridFatherTed wrote:
TimesOnline wrote:
America's love affair with gas-guzzling vehicles
2) you buy a hybrid for a bit more money than you would've spent on a non-hybrid
3) gov't intruduces new charge on hybrids because you aren't paying enough gas tax
4) ...
5) profit in the red
Gas:
15,000 miles divided by 29mpg = 517 gallons times $4/gallon = $2,068 in gas per year.
Hybrid:
15,000 miles divided by 38mpg = 395 gallons times $4/gallon = $1580 in gas per year.
Difference in gas cost per year = $488.
Difference in vehicle cost = $12,000.
$12,000 divided by $488 = 26 years (not counting the interest on the loan) that I would have to drive the Hybrid just to break even. Also not counting the battery replacements the vehicle would need in that time.
So would I buy the one that was $12K cheaper because I am obsessed with guzzling gas, or because it was more practical for me? (Neither in this case, I kept mine).
On the flip side:
I just bought a Sonata (and love it) and am getting 33 City, and 40 highway. I am very happy to be saving gas... But these Power/Gas Mileage/inexpensive combos are really pretty new to our market. This thing gets 11 more mpg than my Impala did in the city (most of my driving) and has more power, more features, more tech, and was about the same price. Plus I got the warranty on everything Bumper to Bumper, Electronics, and Powertrain up to 100K.
current hybrids are dumb. they're just dumb unless you get payed incredible amounts of money to take them
it is a bit baffling though, that americans hasn't really embraced the hatchback or <2.l 5 door. what's diesel uptake like over there?
it is a bit baffling though, that americans hasn't really embraced the hatchback or <2.l 5 door. what's diesel uptake like over there?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
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Always raining and foggy
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Tu Stultus Es
My dad drives a 2010 or 2011 Sonata, the irony is that he bought it for good gas mileage(he had been driving nothing but diesel VWs for the past 8 years before that which got 45 to 50 MPG no matter what) and his driving style is just so aggressive and inefficient that he said only makes about 28 MPG average with it. He said if he'd known that most cars were gonna get about the same shitty mileage under 28 MPG, he would've actually spent a little more and chosen something bigger that he would've actually liked more.HITNRUNXX wrote:
When I bought my LAST vehicle (I understand technology has probably improved in the last 7 years of so) I was looking at Hybrids. A buddy of mine had one and loved it, so I looked into them. The Hybrid ran about $12K more for the exact same features. It was rated for about 9 MPG more than the gas model. (From 29 to 38). At the time, gas was just under $3/gallon so I used $4/gallon in my calculations to adjust for possible inflation over the next few years. My normal annual driving average is about 10,000 miles. I used 15,000 miles in my calculations, just to be sure. All of my corrections were in favor of the Hybrid.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
1) gov't gives you tax break for buying a hybridFatherTed wrote:
2) you buy a hybrid for a bit more money than you would've spent on a non-hybrid
3) gov't intruduces new charge on hybrids because you aren't paying enough gas tax
4) ...
5) profit in the red
Gas:
15,000 miles divided by 29mpg = 517 gallons times $4/gallon = $2,068 in gas per year.
Hybrid:
15,000 miles divided by 38mpg = 395 gallons times $4/gallon = $1580 in gas per year.
Difference in gas cost per year = $488.
Difference in vehicle cost = $12,000.
$12,000 divided by $488 = 26 years (not counting the interest on the loan) that I would have to drive the Hybrid just to break even. Also not counting the battery replacements the vehicle would need in that time.
So would I buy the one that was $12K cheaper because I am obsessed with guzzling gas, or because it was more practical for me? (Neither in this case, I kept mine).
On the flip side:
I just bought a Sonata (and love it) and am getting 33 City, and 40 highway. I am very happy to be saving gas... But these Power/Gas Mileage/inexpensive combos are really pretty new to our market. This thing gets 11 more mpg than my Impala did in the city (most of my driving) and has more power, more features, more tech, and was about the same price. Plus I got the warranty on everything Bumper to Bumper, Electronics, and Powertrain up to 100K.
As it is, he still likes it a lot, it's small and zippy enough for him and the brakes and steering are EXTREMELY sensitive(I've tried it), especially compared to his previous VWs which he said had horrible brakes even when brand-new and changing the pads
More and more manufacturers are piling the small-engine hatchbacks on their lines by reviving older hatchback names like the VW Rabbit and the Ford Fiesta, the local Ford dealership consists of mostly Fiestas with Tauruses sprinkled in.FatherTed wrote:
current hybrids are dumb. they're just dumb unless you get payed incredible amounts of money to take them
it is a bit baffling though, that americans hasn't really embraced the hatchback or <2.l 5 door. what's diesel uptake like over there?
My dad absolutely loved his VW diesel Golf and Jetta wagon, but within the past few years the cost of diesel per gallon has gone from about the same as regular when he bought the Jetta wagon to shooting past the highest grade gasoline which I think turns a lot of people off to diesel now. Even so he was still waiting for the Diesel Mini Cooper to be sold over here for a few years before he finally got tired of waiting, and just bought the Sonata
Last edited by _j5689_ (2012-07-21 18:04:26)
Cancer-causing or not it seems to get awesome mileage on small carsRTHKI wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/health/diesel-fumes-cause-lung-cancer-who-says.html
I don't know how it wasn't blatantly obvious that diesel smoke is a carcinogen though, it's thick black extra-bad quality exhaust, is there anything you can inhale from incidental exposure with those characteristics in the long term and not be significantly more likely to get cancer from it than if you didn't inhale it?
Not all diesel engines burn that filthily. Just don't let it run inside your garage._j5689_ wrote:
Cancer-causing or not it seems to get awesome mileage on small carsRTHKI wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/health/diesel-fumes-cause-lung-cancer-who-says.html
I don't know how it wasn't blatantly obvious that diesel smoke is a carcinogen though, it's thick black extra-bad quality exhaust, is there anything you can inhale from incidental exposure with those characteristics in the long term and not be significantly more likely to get cancer from it than if you didn't inhale it?
I wish it would catch on more. I want a diesel in my jeep.FatherTed wrote:
current hybrids are dumb. they're just dumb unless you get payed incredible amounts of money to take them
it is a bit baffling though, that americans hasn't really embraced the hatchback or <2.l 5 door. what's diesel uptake like over there?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
diesel's as expensive as premium gas, if not more expensive. thankfully some Euro car makers haven't shied away from selling diesels here anyway (VW, BMW, Mercedes).FatherTed wrote:
current hybrids are dumb. they're just dumb unless you get payed incredible amounts of money to take them
it is a bit baffling though, that americans hasn't really embraced the hatchback or <2.l 5 door. what's diesel uptake like over there?
I don't know when diesel became more expensive, but I blame taxes and liberals.
From your own article.RTHKI wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/health/diesel-fumes-cause-lung-cancer-who-says.html
The United States and other wealthy nations have less of a problem because they require modern diesel engines to burn much cleaner than they did even a decade ago..... noting that modern diesel engines used in the United States and other wealthy countries burn low sulfur fuel, so new trucks and buses emit 98 percent less particulates than old ones did and 99 percent less nitrogen oxide
2000-6Hurricane2k9 wrote:
I don't know when diesel became more expensive, but I blame taxes and liberals.
Why?
The cleaner diesel takes far more money to produce, but even being the same or marginally more expensive then 'premium' petrol it is still cheaper per Km due to its better fuel economy. Even premium fuels come close to if not cheaper then standard ones due to their fuel efficiency.Ultra-low-sulfur fuel was introduced in 2000 and became mandatory in 2006
Which doesn't mean you should burn them in some vehicles.DrunkFace wrote:
The cleaner diesel takes far more money to produce, but even being the same or marginally more expensive then 'premium' petrol it is still cheaper per Km due to its better fuel economy. Even premium fuels come close to if not cheaper then standard ones due to their fuel efficiency.
why?
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
Depends on the compression ratio....
Fuck Israel
Octane rating has nothing to do with fuel efficiency... If you're driving a Porsche or Ferrari then yes, you want higher octane fuels, but that's because the engine has higher compression ratios. If you're driving something more normal all you're doing by buying the higher octane is fouling your engine with half-burnt fuel. Stick with whatever rating the manufacturer recommends.DrunkFace wrote:
why?
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Out of curiosity, does it run better in any other way? Like smoother or more powerful? My friend's mom had some kind of 09 or 10 Lexus that we borrowed and it was running on premium, it was incredibly smooth and quiet when I drove it. It likely requires that fuel anyway though so it makes more sense that it works so well with it.DrunkFace wrote:
why?
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
I think most PCMs(at least the one on my 02 Vic) will adapt to a grade of fuel if you stick to it for a bit, definitely true of any FlexFuel vehicle for obvious reasons. Works a lot better if you reset the PCM when you start doing it too but of course the best way to do it would be to specifically get the car tuned for whatever grade of fuel you're going to be runningJay wrote:
Octane rating has nothing to do with fuel efficiency... If you're driving a Porsche or Ferrari then yes, you want higher octane fuels, but that's because the engine has higher compression ratios. If you're driving something more normal all you're doing by buying the higher octane is fouling your engine with half-burnt fuel. Stick with whatever rating the manufacturer recommends.DrunkFace wrote:
why?
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
Please, stop posting.Jay wrote:
Octane rating has nothing to do with fuel efficiency... If you're driving a Porsche or Ferrari then yes, you want higher octane fuels, but that's because the engine has higher compression ratios. If you're driving something more normal all you're doing by buying the higher octane is fouling your engine with half-burnt fuel. Stick with whatever rating the manufacturer recommends.DrunkFace wrote:
why?
In my 1.8L corolla 98 octane is about 15% more fuel efficient then 91e10. And the bigger more sophisticated your engine gets the more benefit you're likely to get from better fuel.
Fuck Israel
Premium petrols have additives to give you a sparkly clean engine and a more efficient burn as well as being a higher octane rating. Higher octane can be used by newer cars with learning ecus but old ones cant take advantage of it. Should still run better after a couple of tanks though whatever it is.
FYI shell now include some kind of efficiency additive to their standard 95ron fuel in the uk, still not quite as good as their 98ron premium but getting there.
FYI shell now include some kind of efficiency additive to their standard 95ron fuel in the uk, still not quite as good as their 98ron premium but getting there.
They add magic and guarantee you will get a higher mpg by using their fuel. Call it what you will.Dilbert_X wrote:
'Efficiency additive' - OK...
Has there been anything that proves that they actually do put that stuff in the higher grades of gas?
The phrase "efficiency additive" could be repurposed to describe cardboard content in hamburger meat.