BF2S Forums Is file-sharing actually stealing?

They have fake hd.. but yea, once its true I'll just take my hdmi out and plug it right into my receiver. Actually I might just try it to see how it looks now.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

Is Rosetta Stone really worth $549.00?

It probably wouldn't be $549 if people werent getting free copies. Piracy drives the cost up.

The software companies are fighting a losing battle.

I don't see why it would be any less if nobody was copying it. All the more money for them.

You could say that about anything.

Vilham wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I don't see why it would be any less if nobody was copying it. All the more money for them.

You could say that about anything.

Actually the high price thing is part of Premium business models. If piracy didn't happen the software would still cost the same. Piracy happens for those software because the prices are too high to realistically purchase for most people rather than the price being high because it's driven by piracy.

You and I both know that if all software were 19.99 and under people would still (and do) pirate it.

It is as wrong as two boys kissing.

NantanCochise wrote:

Look, its as simple as this: If everybody stole software, than there would be no money to be made from it. Hence no one would actually produce it, therefore no one could have access to it anyway.

Maybe. But you have to realise this: People still buy the software, and from there, people will pirate, that can also bring a lot of profit to the company in later stages (pirates are willing to pay for products that are decently priced).

Take W7 for example. It would not have gotten this much attention unless it had been pirated several million times in closed beta stages.

@ Kmar, I disagree. If Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Vista, Windows 7 and other programs were under £40 I would happily pay for them without hesitation. The steep prices put every user in the world off the product, now... Some have the means to buy it anyway, but the ones who don't will naturally pirate it. I find the prices that companies charge us basically theft as well. Adobe charges extortionate prices for products that may be the best in the market, but are clearly not worth anything near that price. There are equivalents for hundreds less and all you lose is the ADOBE logo and maybe 1 or 2 tools. It's bullshit.

Honestly, I don't care. As long as the internet stays as it is, I'll be happy. Once governments start putting in laws on the internet and such, I'll blow people up.

Pirate or don't pirate. It's up to you.

Zimmer wrote:

NantanCochise wrote:

Look, its as simple as this: If everybody stole software, than there would be no money to be made from it. Hence no one would actually produce it, therefore no one could have access to it anyway.

Maybe. But you have to realise this: People still buy the software, and from there, people will pirate, that can also bring a lot of profit to the company in later stages (pirates are willing to pay for products that are decently priced).

Take W7 for example. It would not have gotten this much attention unless it had been pirated several million times in closed beta stages.

Where do you get your "several million times" from? I highly doubt that. In any case, the attention generated around Windows 7 had little to nothing to do with piracy. Windows has an installed base of hundreds upon hundreds of millions of machines. It gets its attention because people are interested in the software.

Zimmer wrote:

@ Kmar, I disagree. If Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Vista, Windows 7 and other programs were under £40 I would happily pay for them without hesitation. The steep prices put every user in the world off the product, now... Some have the means to buy it anyway, but the ones who don't will naturally pirate it. I find the prices that companies charge us basically theft as well. Adobe charges extortionate prices for products that may be the best in the market, but are clearly not worth anything near that price.

Any product is worth the price a purchaser will pay for it. The only concern a manufacturer has in that regard is regulating price to optimise profit.

Zimmer wrote:

There are equivalents for hundreds less and all you lose is the ADOBE logo and maybe 1 or 2 tools. It's bullshit.

Yet for some reason you pirate the best applications rather than settle for the, in your opinion, very slightly inferior alternatives that you could afford. Isn't that at odds with your claim that people will buy "reasonably" priced software?

Kmarion wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You could say that about anything.

Actually the high price thing is part of Premium business models. If piracy didn't happen the software would still cost the same. Piracy happens for those software because the prices are too high to realistically purchase for most people rather than the price being high because it's driven by piracy.

You and I both know that if all software were 19.99 and under people would still (and do) pirate it.

Exactly thats my point. Its high price has NOTHING to do with piracy.

^Exactly, price is something you have to take in and consider...if you see software for 19.99, the general response is that it's affordable, and will be purchased.  However, when you see a piece of software that exceeds $100, then it starts to become more of an investment than a purchase...

To even call it piracy is ridiculous.  People who illegally copy software aren't waving AK47s and RPGs at cruise ships off the horn of Africa, they're sitting at home downloading stuff which they probably wouldn't have paid for anyway.

To suggest that high prices do not influence piracy is equally ridiculous.  Which game is more likely to be pirated by someone who wants a new game and has 30 bucks left over after paying their bills for the week - the 20 dollar game or the 40 dollar game?

Companies have long said "piracy drives up prices".  We're seeing a lot of games with CD keys which are registered & checked online these days.  This system is a fairly robust way of combatting piracy, yet prices haven't gone down, and in many cases they've gone up.  What does this tell you?  The old "piracy drives up prices" argument is a crock of shit.

Personally, I think the users - and in particular, the writers - of cheats for online games such as BF2 should be treated more harshly than so-called software "pirates".  Their stuff actually involves defeating security systems, and ruins any number of good games for those of us who were bought up to  believe in fair play.  Fundamentally, its not much different from using a password-cracker, or using some of the free MD5 lookup services.

Oh, and EB games sucks balls.  I've bought three $20 games (CoH, CoH:OF & Defcon) from them over the past two weeks, and two of the three CDs have had media defects, one CD even looks like theres no data on it at all!  gg EB, thanks for effectively charging me $60 for a $20 game.

If you think that piracy doesn't drive up prices, then you've clearly never had to deal with the economics of software development. Piracy is a massive deterrent to investment.

I would guess every kid have tried downloading a game when they found out about it. When they hear "Its easy, doesn't take long to download and you dont have to pay shit for it" They are gonna download it when a game for them is most likely 3months allowance. The price of a game for a kid is pretty high and they most likely know their parents isn't gonna buy that game.

I been able to get PC games cheaper than ususal, maybe 10-15$ at first day.

Its just so easy to do it.

Then a lot pirates says
" Remove the DRM and we will buy it"
Demigod had about 120,000 at start, 100,000 or less had not registered their copy and still tried to enter the servers.

But really what gives you the right to download it? What make you so special that you can download it without having to worry about anything?

Above the law? Laws may become obsolete and maybe created as a result of lobbying to create favorable situations for certain businesses. I'm not saying this thinking is a free pass, but imo being blindly "lawful good" is as foolish as being a proud thief.

Zukabazuka wrote:

Then a lot pirates says
" Remove the DRM and we will buy it"

It's also a valid point. There are harsh sorts of DRM that actually interfere with the normal operation of legit computer software. Not everyone can afford a computer just for gaming and one for everything else.

Kmarion wrote:

There are equivalents for hundreds less and all you lose is the ADOBE logo. That is how you (legally) control the price and quality. Use a competitor.

Piracy is a decisions to subvert the law. If that is a decision you or I choose to make then so be it (like speeding). My only is when people try to justify what they are doing AFTER THE FACT. If you have a problem with the law then make some real noise about it.

And as argued in another thread, there are also exceptions that companies tolerate. People like to use what they already know, so I'm willing to imagine that a number of students with (fully-featured) pirated Adobe software will be using legit forms if they become professionals in the design field. That translates into more license sales. But once it becomes commercial, that's when software companies should take notice.

Kmarion wrote:

jsnipy wrote:

Above the law? Laws may become obsolete and maybe created as a result of lobbying to create favorable situations for certain businesses. I'm not saying this thinking is a free pass, but imo being blindly "lawful good" is as foolish as being a proud thief.

Yes above the law.. no matter what you think of it, you are still operating as if you think you know what is better than what the courts have decided. Fighting a law by means of free stuff for you.. how very noble. You can dress it up any way you like, but it's still above the law (because you have decided you know better). BTW I AM NOT PASSING JUDGMENT ON THE ACT OF PIRACY. I'm saying that the justification of it seems a little too self serving. It is just my opinion. I've also defended consumers plenty on this forum. See bandwidth caps n shiz.

There's actually precedent for ignoring stupid laws.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-15 19:35:17)