Flecco wrote:
Still don't understand why Israel Phoenicia and TurkeyThrace, Ionia, Phrygia and Capadocia are considered European...
They aren't Middle Eastern but they definitely aren't in Europe.
Seriously though there are several definitions of Europe:
1. (Contemporary) Economic-political, started off quite small, but is expanding rapidly.
2. Geographical, extends from Ireland in the West to the Bosphorus in the South-East and the Ural in the North-East
3. (Narrow) Historic, all territories that participated in typical (post renaissance) European cultural history, this includes about everything North of the Mediterenean, including Russia (and perhaps pre-independence America), excluding Ottoman territories.
4. (Broad) Historic, the typical European cultural interaction zone since classical time, this includes the entire mediterenean, including (East-) North Africa, and the Caucasus.
These definitions overlap between each other and with other definitions. I think, that is what is causing the confusion. In my opinion this could be solved by better defining what we mean and not clustering peoples or nation by means of some idea concept like "Europe" but rather by real "cultural spheres". It is much more sensible to speak of Mediterenean or Scandinavian than of European. Imo, the geographical concept of Europe should be ditched alltogether since it really does not tell you anything.
Edit: Please bear in mind that untill well into the 1920's the vast majority of Constantinopolitans/Istanbulis was Christian. since then those people have not converted, but rather been outnumbered by vast numbers of East Empire (Ottoman Empire I mean) immigrants, attracted by the booming city. Also Turkish people are, well (Turkish) Asian (not the British definition of the word), not (Near Eastern) Arab or Persian and a lot will have mingled with the indigenous population (real full scale migration and replacement of peoples is a lie). In the case of Israel; while Jews are of semitic origin the present state of Israel, except for Palestinians, consists entirely of immigrants with a typical European background. I was at a birthday party the other day and this girl pointed out to me that modern Hebrew (only modern though) is by some even considered to be a Slavic language due to the grammar. I strongly dissagreed, but that's not the point.
Last edited by Lai (2009-06-28 15:22:44)