G20 death was not heart attack

2009-04-17 07:51:21

#1

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6592|Éire

This is somewhat of an update on a pre-existing thread. Ian Tomlinson, the newspaper vendor assaulted by police on his way home from work during the G20 protests did not in fact die of a heart attack, according to a second postmortem by the City of London Coroners Court. The cause of death was in fact an abdominal haemorrhage according to the report.

So... what are the security services going to say now?

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8004222.stm

2009-04-17 07:56:47

#2

mafia996630: © 2009 Jeff Minard; +319|7065|d

no offence dude but did you really need to add it to my post and make a new thread ? geeezzz!

Anyway. an interesting turn of events. So could the strike from the police have caused the abdominal haemorrhage ?

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-04-17 07:57:04)

2009-04-17 08:17:02

#3

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6831|Global Command

The cops will not be held accountable.

There is one set of laws for us, another for them.

2009-04-17 08:22:55

#4

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6923|London, England

Wow, that changes pretty much everything. I don't think even the police can worm their way out of this one

2009-04-17 08:28:33

#5

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6592|Éire

mafia996630 wrote:
no offence dude but did you really need to add it to my post and make a new thread ? geeezzz!

Anyway. an interesting turn of events. So could the strike from the police have caused the abdominal haemorrhage ?

I didn't mean to detract from your thread, I just thought that because the old thread was a few days old this important turn of events might have been buried and missed by our American brethren.

Perhaps a mod can just merge them in some way?

2009-04-17 08:30:12

#6

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6455|what

Then the officer who pushed the guy should be charged with manslaughter.

2009-04-17 09:30:31

#7

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6592|Éire

AussieReaper wrote:
Then the officer who pushed the guy should be charged with manslaughter.

Update...

"A policeman has been interviewed under caution on suspicion of manslaughter after new tests overturned the cause of a newspaper-seller's death"... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8004222.stm

Last edited by Braddock (2009-04-17 09:32:43)

2009-04-17 10:45:31

#8

imortal: Member; +240|6967|Austin, TX

mafia996630 wrote:
no offence dude but did you really need to add it to my post and make a new thread ? geeezzz!

Anyway. an interesting turn of events. So could the strike from the police have caused the abdominal haemorrhage ?

Actually, if the guy had a pre-existing condition, such as a "Triple A" (Abdominal Aortic Annurism), it would be very possible to rupture though moderate abdominal trauma (such as a hard punch or a kick). A AAA is really dangerous, and has a severely low survival rate. When I say severely low, I mean that if a AAA ruptures while IN an operating room at a hospital, with a surgical team present, it has about a 10% survival rate. The blood loss is just that fast.

2009-04-17 17:48:44

#9

Ajax_the_Great1: Dropped on request; +206|6948

I don't think anyone should face manslaughter for pushing a guy. Thats just plain dumb. (unless its off a cliff or down stairs)

I'm not saying it's not a shame he died but I eam come on. What if the this had happened at a bar and between two drunks? Would you still all call the guy a murderer or can you just admit you don't like cops.

2009-04-17 18:02:34

#10

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6296|Truthistan

Bullies with a badge should get twice the punishment. They are public servants paid to protect and serve. When they commit a crime the fact they are cops is an aggravating circumstance and not a mitigating circumstance.

IMO the public cuts bullies with badges way too much slack. There has to be some accountability for this death. Clearly its manslaughter.

2009-04-17 19:20:14

#11

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6525|Escea

I'm still wondering why they suddenly decided to do a second post-mortem. Just seems strange is all.

As much as it is a tragedy what happened to Tomlinson, he must also take some of the blame. He was walking very slow in front of a line of riot police, hands in pockets which could be holding something. When you watch the clip, just before the masked officer takes him down one of the officers (one with the dog I think) gives him a nudge, but he doesn't respond by quickening his pace or anything. I can understand that he looks like he is being defiant of the police but I dunno. Unfortunate incident really. The copper probably never expected anything like what happened to actually happen, after all, people are pushed to the ground to be cuffed by police all the time and Tomlinson's hands do leave his pockets before he lands.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2009-04-17 19:24:58)

2009-04-17 19:25:06

#12

13rin: Member; +977|6781

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
I don't think anyone should face manslaughter for pushing a guy. Thats just plain dumb. (unless its off a cliff or down stairs)

I'm not saying it's not a shame he died but I eam come on. What if the this had happened at a bar and between two drunks? Would you still all call the guy a murderer or can you just admit you don't like cops.

I think that why its manslaughter and not murder. I hope he gets off.

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2009-04-17 19:27:39

#13

m3thod: All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz; +2,197|6973|UK

Cos he was assulted by that copper using his baton. IPCC and tomlinson family solicitors instructed a second post mortem on thie basis of this new evidence.

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.

2009-04-17 19:30:59

#14

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6525|Escea

m3thod wrote:
Cos he was assulted by that copper using his baton. IPCC and tomlinson family solicitors instructed a second post mortem on thie basis of this new evidence.

The results are wildly different though, which is weird. First time = heart attack. Second time = Internal haemorrhaging.

2009-04-17 19:34:37

#15

m3thod: All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz; +2,197|6973|UK

M.O.A.B wrote:
m3thod wrote:
Cos he was assulted by that copper using his baton. IPCC and tomlinson family solicitors instructed a second post mortem on thie basis of this new evidence.
The results are wildly different though, which is weird. First time = heart attack. Second time = Internal haemorrhaging.

First pathologist was evidently incompetent.

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.

2009-04-17 19:52:47

#16

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,983|6934|949

DBBrinson1 wrote:
Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
I don't think anyone should face manslaughter for pushing a guy. Thats just plain dumb. (unless its off a cliff or down stairs)

I'm not saying it's not a shame he died but I eam come on. What if the this had happened at a bar and between two drunks? Would you still all call the guy a murderer or can you just admit you don't like cops.
I think that why its manslaughter and not murder. I hope he gets off.

I guy I went to highschool with was pushed at a bar and hit his head on the bottom rail and died. The person that pushed him was convicted of murder - because it was malicious intent.

2009-04-17 20:00:13

#17

Man With No Name: جندي; +148|5877|The Wild West

M.O.A.B wrote:
I'm still wondering why they suddenly decided to do a second post-mortem. Just seems strange is all.

As much as it is a tragedy what happened to Tomlinson, he must also take some of the blame. He was walking very slow in front of a line of riot police, hands in pockets which could be holding something. When you watch the clip, just before the masked officer takes him down one of the officers (one with the dog I think) gives him a nudge, but he doesn't respond by quickening his pace or anything. I can understand that he looks like he is being defiant of the police but I dunno. Unfortunate incident really. The copper probably never expected anything like what happened to actually happen, after all, people are pushed to the ground to be cuffed by police all the time and Tomlinson's hands do leave his pockets before he lands.

technically every single death is a cardiac arrest

2009-04-17 20:30:22

#18

13rin: Member; +977|6781

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
I don't think anyone should face manslaughter for pushing a guy. Thats just plain dumb. (unless its off a cliff or down stairs)

I'm not saying it's not a shame he died but I eam come on. What if the this had happened at a bar and between two drunks? Would you still all call the guy a murderer or can you just admit you don't like cops.
I think that why its manslaughter and not murder. I hope he gets off.
I guy I went to highschool with was pushed at a bar and hit his head on the bottom rail and died. The person that pushed him was convicted of murder - because it was malicious intent.

Wow... In this case though, do you call 'malicious intent' or 'doing your job'???

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2009-04-17 21:05:43

#19

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6645|California

DBBrinson1 wrote:
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
DBBrinson1 wrote:

I think that why its manslaughter and not murder. I hope he gets off.
I guy I went to highschool with was pushed at a bar and hit his head on the bottom rail and died. The person that pushed him was convicted of murder - because it was malicious intent.
Wow... In this case though, do you call 'malicious intent' or 'doing your job'???

That's where it comes down to if he had reason enough to push him or if he just looked a little suspect.

2009-04-17 21:13:39

#20

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6525|Escea

Man With No Name wrote:
M.O.A.B wrote:
I'm still wondering why they suddenly decided to do a second post-mortem. Just seems strange is all.

As much as it is a tragedy what happened to Tomlinson, he must also take some of the blame. He was walking very slow in front of a line of riot police, hands in pockets which could be holding something. When you watch the clip, just before the masked officer takes him down one of the officers (one with the dog I think) gives him a nudge, but he doesn't respond by quickening his pace or anything. I can understand that he looks like he is being defiant of the police but I dunno. Unfortunate incident really. The copper probably never expected anything like what happened to actually happen, after all, people are pushed to the ground to be cuffed by police all the time and Tomlinson's hands do leave his pockets before he lands.
technically every single death is a cardiac arrest

True.

2009-04-18 02:05:15

#21

JahManRed: wank; +646|6930|IRELAND

m3thod wrote:
M.O.A.B wrote:
m3thod wrote:
Cos he was assulted by that copper using his baton. IPCC and tomlinson family solicitors instructed a second post mortem on thie basis of this new evidence.
The results are wildly different though, which is weird. First time = heart attack. Second time = Internal haemorrhaging.
First pathologist was evidently incompetent.

Or covering up for the cops.

That fucker has to do time for this. Then hopefully other cops won't be so "up for it" next time.

2009-04-18 03:39:23

#22

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6883|SE London

M.O.A.B wrote:
m3thod wrote:
Cos he was assulted by that copper using his baton. IPCC and tomlinson family solicitors instructed a second post mortem on thie basis of this new evidence.
The results are wildly different though, which is weird. First time = heart attack. Second time = Internal haemorrhaging.

No they weren't.

The 1st coroner, Dr Patel (who has already been in lots of trouble in previous cases and has a bad reputation), found massive internal bleeding. It was found the first time round, just not attributed as the cause of death.

He had heart problems, but the 2nd coroner does not believe they were severe enough to cause his death and the internal bleeding was.

2009-04-18 04:16:28

#23

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6976|Canberra, AUS

Massive internal chest bleeding can occasionally point to a cardiac arrest, I wouldn't be so harsh.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-04-18 04:29:26

#24

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6883|SE London

Spark wrote:
Massive internal chest bleeding can occasionally point to a cardiac arrest, I wouldn't be so harsh.

I'm not trying to be harsh - just trying to point out the results aren't that wildly different.

2009-04-18 06:41:03

#25

Stubbee: Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts; +223|7045|Reality

Spark wrote:
Massive internal chest bleeding can occasionally point to a cardiac arrest, I wouldn't be so harsh.

Unless the coroner is blind or an idiot how do you mistake large abdominal bleeding for large thoracic bleeding?

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'

BF2S Forums G20 death was not heart attack

mafia996630 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

m3thod wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

m3thod wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

m3thod wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Spark wrote:

Spark wrote:

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