BF2S Forums God shaped hole

FEOS wrote:

People are twisting what I've said into a strict "survival" interpretation, which is not at all what I said. I broke it down to simplistic terms for discussion. That does not mean faith is a simplistic endeavor.

i'm sure god appreciates his pragmatic fanboys.

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

well, you misunderstood me here - it's my poor english again i guess. i don't disagree with you at all, this is my own post in this same thread where i said similar stuff. what i was trying to point out is "what's there to loose?"-argument doesn't work at all, because it tries to back irrational stuff with rational arguments. "i beleave in religion because it's a win/win, it's only pragmatic" ya-fucking-hoo, but how do you know what to beleave in the first place? everybody and their mother in law have their own religion these days and everybody says theirs is the genuine article - how do you know which is the true one?
"they aren't all irrational" you say - of course they aren't, their religious beleafs are and they know it.

Are you sure it's not just because I said it, Shahter?

watwazzat? and i'm told you've no sence of humor there. but no, you are confusing me with... umm... you-know-who .

FEOS wrote:

Trying to rationalize an inherently irrational process is what this thread is really about.

eeerh... right.

FEOS wrote:

How do you know what to believe? You just know. No other way to explain it. I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.

but that's the point: you "just know" and i don't. i'm not going to refute your faith - as i said before, it might just be somekinda "sixth sence" which enables you to persieve something i don't - fine, no problem whatsoever. but again, there's no explaining what "green" is to a blind person, and in terms of "just knowing" i'm pretty much "blind" and so are many other people. not only we aren't going to understand your pragmatic approach to religious faith - we are incapable of understanding that stuff at all because faith is pre-requisite we lack. you are placing the wagon in front of a horse here.

edit: typos

Last edited by Shahter (2009-04-15 12:42:22)

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.

I can think of only one person I know who was raised outside a religion who went into it as an adult, and that was more about avoiding getting a real job.
Personally I don't think children should be brainwashed with this stuff, let them figure it out as adults if they find they have a hole in them.
Not convince them they have a hole before they can think for themselves.

Well, a natural part of maturity is a sense of doubt in the beliefs of your parents as you try to find your own way in the world, so I am less concerned with "brain washing," depending on what you think would qualify.  I plan to raise my children with a strong moral sense, as well as all those other socially accpetable traits.  Most religions do preach those things.  It is a matter of degree and extremism.  I do not see a problem with religion in moderation.  Of course, anyone who says anything like that is immediately labeled as some sort of bible-thumping nutjob in here, but that really isn't my problem.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Teaching morality is fine, and there is plenty of good moral stuff in religion, I don't see why it has to be rolled up in religion.

I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.

Maybe not now, but when you are 7, it does.

We tell our kids about Santa Claus, don't we?  What about the Easter Bunny?  The Tooth Fairy?  Think about all the crap we subject our kids to.  Might as well do it with a goal and hope some of the teachings stick; isn't that about all we can do as parents?

Shahter wrote:

you are placing the wagon in front of a horse here.

Not at all. I don't expect anyone else to believe the same way I do, if at all. Faith is an inherently personal thing. If you are incapable (for whatever reason) of believing in a higher being, that's your thing. You are making a choice when presented with two options. If that decision turns out to be wrong in the end, it's your to deal with, not mine. Same for my choice in the matter.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.

Strawman much?