ATG
Banned
+5,233|6832|Global Command
Income taxes just got raised to the tune of 50 billion dollars here in the Peoples Republic of Kalfornia.
New York is not far behind.

Tax dollars fund out-sourcing of U.S. factory jobs and worse.

This must end now.
Anti-taxation without representation rallies are planned :


( not an advertisement per se because nothing is for sale and you must research where exactly these things are happening )


More than 150 tea parties scheduled for upcoming months. They include the following:

Birmingham, Ala. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. at Veteran Park on Highway 17 Valledale Road

Huntsville, Ala. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m. to 1 p.m., location to be announced

Decatur, Ala. – Saturday, March 28, at the Rhodes Ferry Park, (also known as River Park)

Mobile, Ala. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at the USS Alabama battleship

Montgomery, Ala. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. at the Alabama Statehouse located at 11 South Union Street

Phoenix, Ariz. – Wednesday, April 15, at 6 p.m. at capitol building

Tucson, Ariz. – Wednesday, April 15, from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. in front of Joel D. Valdez Main Library on 101 N. Stone Ave.

Mountain Home, Ark. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., location to be announced

Atascadero, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., Sunken Gardens on El Camino Real

Hollister, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m., corner of San Benito and 4th St.

Los Angeles, Calif. – Saturday, July 4, from 7 a.m. to 12 p.m. at Santa Monica Pier

Modesto, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 8 p.m. at 1010 10th Street

Sacramento, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. at state capitol building on L Street

San Bernadino, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. from Meadowbrook Park to Joe Baca’s Office, 201 N. "E" St.

San Diego, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. at a post office near you

San Francisco, Calif. – April 15 at 1 p.m., location not yet chosen.

San Jose, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. at IRS offices at 55 S. Market Street, across the street from Saint Joseph’s Cathedral

Santa Ana, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., tentative location at Santa Ana Civic Center

Temecula, Calif. – Wednesday, April 15, 11 a.m., Duck Pond

Hartford, Conn. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

New Haven, Conn. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Ridgefield, Conn. – Saturday, March 21, 10 a.m. at Ballard Park

Stamford, Conn. – Saturday, March 28, 10 a.m. at 96 Broad Street (Starbucks/library location), corner of Broad and Bedford

Colorado Springs, Colo. – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 1:30 p.m. at city hall, 107 North Nevada

Denver, Colo. – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 1:30 p.m. on the west steps of the capitol, 200 East Colfax

Grand Junction, Colo. – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 1:30 p.m. at 12th Street and North Avenue

Dover, Del. – Wednesday, April 15 from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., location to be announced

Jacksonville, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m., either Jax Landing or Friendship Fountain

Miami, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be announced

Naples, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., Pine Ridge Road and U.S. 41

Orlando, Fla. – Saturday, March 21, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at the amphitheater at Lake Eola in downtown Orlando

Orlando, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be announced

Palm Beach, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m., location to be announced

Panama City, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 3 p.m. to dark at Sherman Avenue Post Office

Pensacola, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. at downtown courthouse, Palafox Street and E. Garden St.

Punta Gorda, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 5 p.m. to 6:30 p.m., location to be announced

Tampa, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., at Gaslight Park, downtown Tampa

West Palm Beach, Fla. – Wednesday, April 15 from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be announced

Tallahassee, Fla. – Thursday, March 19, at 5 p.m. at the Leon County Commission Chambers, 5th floor, Courthouse

Atlanta, Ga. – Wednesday, April 15 from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.at the capitol building located at 206 Washington St.

Atlanta, Ga. – Saturday, July 4, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. at the capitol building located at 206 Washington St.

Augusta, Ga. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Savannah, Ga. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 7 p.m., location to be announced

Honolulu, Hawaii – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., at the state capitol building

Urbana, Ill. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be determined

Chicago, Ill. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at the Daley Plaza Civic Center at 50 Washington St.

Chicago, Ill. – From Saturday, July 4, at 7 p.m. to Sunday, July 5, at 5 a.m. at Belmont Harbor on Lake Shore Drive

Bloomington, Ind. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. outside the Shower’s building, corner of W 8th St. & N. Morton St.

Fort Wayne, Ind. – Saturday, April 18 from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. downtown at Courthouse Square

Indianapolis, Ind. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. in downtown Indianapolis, exact location to be announced

Davenport, Iowa – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at 4th and Main Street (in front of office of Rep. Bruce Braley D-Iowa)

Iowa City, Iowa – Wednesday, April 15, from 11:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. at Burlington Street Bridge

Overland Park, Kan. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. at Johnston Community College

Wichita, Kan. – Wednesday, April 15, at 4:15 p.m. airport post office

Louisville, Ky. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Jefferson Square (tentative location), 10th and Jefferson St.

Lexington, Ky. – Saturday, March 21, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at the Robert Stevens Courthouse Complex, 150 North Limestone

Baton Rouge, La. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. on the steps of the capitol building

Lake Charles, La. – Wednesday, April 15, at 5 p.m. at Lake Charles Civic Center on Lakeshore Drive

Shreveport, La. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. at downtown Shreveport Riverfront

Augusta, Maine – Wednesday, April 15, at 5:30 p.m. at Capital Park

Annapolis, Md. – Wednesday, April 15, from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. at Campbell Park on the dock/boardwalk at Annapolis Harbor

Boston, Mass. – Wednesday, April 15, 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. at City Hall Plaza

Boston, Mass. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m. at Ivy Restaurant at 49 Temple Place

Boston, Mass. – Saturday, July 4, from 12 p.m. to 9 p.m. at Griffin Harbor on Congress Street Bridge

Worcester, Mass. – Wednesday, April 15, 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. at Lincoln Square (in front of the auditorium)

Bancroft. Mich. – April 11 from 9 a.m. to sundown at Camp Stasa, 7963 Cork Rd.

Lansing, Mich. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. at Michigan State Capitol, 100 N Capitol Ave

St. Paul, Minn. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at capitol

Jackson, Miss. – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. in downtown Jackson, location to be determined

Kansas City, Mo. – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., location to be determined

St. Louis, Mo. – Wednesday, April 15, from 7 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be determined

Missoula, Mont. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m., downtown Missoula, exact location to be announced

Lincoln, Neb. – Wednesday, April 15, from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., location to be announced

Omaha, Neb.– Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., at Bob Kerrey Memorial Pedestrian Bridge

Carson City/Reno, Nev. – Wednesday, April 15, from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m., 101 N. Carson Street in front of state capitol building and Supreme Court

Las Vegas, Nev. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., at sidewalk across from Sunset Post Office at 1001 E Sunset RD

Morristown, N.J. – Wednesday, April 15, from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m., location to be announced

Newark, N.J. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m., visiting Sens. Lautenberg and Menendez offices, Gateway Center One, 782 McCarter Highway

Trenton, N.J. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. at New Jersey State House, 125 W. State St.

Albuquerque, N.M. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Las Cruces, N.M. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 8 p.m., location to be announced

Albany, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m., at Corning Preserve

Fishkill, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., Doug Phillips Park

Gardiner, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, from 64 p.m. to 8 p.m., the Rail Trail, Route 44/55

New York, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m., location to be announced

New York, N.Y. – Saturday, July 4, from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. at South Street Seaport and Pier 17

Rochester, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, at 11 a.m. at Genesee Crossroads Park

Staten Island, N.Y. – Wednesday, April 15, at 12 p.m., Rep. Michael McMahon's office, 265 New Dorp Lane at corner of Edison Street

Asheville, N.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 4:30 p.m. to 7:00 p.m., Pritchard Park, intersection of Haywood and Patton

Charlotte, N.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m., City Hall lawn at 600 E. Trade Street

Edenton, N.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m., Edenton Courthouse Green, Court and Water Streets

Greensboro, N.C. – Wednesday, April 15, location and time to be announced

Raleigh, N.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. at the state capitol building on East Edenton Street

Canton, Ohio – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. in downtown Canton, exact location to be announced

Cincinnati, Ohio – Saturday, March 15, from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. at Fountain Square at the corner of Fifth and Vine Streets

Cleveland, Ohio – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., Public Square, downtown Cleveland

Dayton, Ohio – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. in downtown Dayton, exact location to be announced

Oklahoma City, Okla. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. at state capitol step

Tulsa, Okla. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11:25 a.m. to 1:25 p.m. at Tulsa City Hall, 175 E. 2nd

Bend, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Grants Pass, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Medford, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Portland, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, from 3 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., location to be announced

Roseburg, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Salem, Ore. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at capitol building, in the park

Harrisburg, Pa. – Wednesday, April 15, at 12 p.m. west steps of capitol building

Philadelphia, Pa. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at downtown Philadelphia, exact location to be announced

Philadelphia, Pa. – Saturday, April 18, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at Independence Hall

Pittsburgh, Pa. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m. at downtown Pittsburgh, exact location to be announced

Pittsburgh, Pa. – Saturday, April 11, at 12 p.m. at Allegheny Landing

Providence, R.I. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. at state capitol steps (city side across from Providence Place Mall)

Charleston, S.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. at the Old Customs House building, East Bay St. and Market St.

Columbia, S.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12:30 p.m. to 2 p.m. at state house, 1101 Gervals Street

Sioux Falls, S.D. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1:30 p.m. at Terrace Park, Coval Lake

Memphis, Tenn. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., location to be announced

Nashville, Tenn. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 2 p.m., location to be announced

Austin, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. on south steps of state capitol building

Burleson, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m., across the street from Wal-Mart, 951 S. W. Wilshire Blvd.

Dallas, Texas – Saturday, July 4, from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. at Victory Park

Dallas, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., location to be announced

Denton, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., Courthouse on the Square, 110 W. Hickory

El Paso, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., location to be announced

Fort Worth, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., location to be announced

Fort Worth, Texas – Saturday, July 4 from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. at the Cowtown Bar & Grill

Houston, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 11 p.m. across street from downtown post office

Kerrville, Texas – Wednesday, April 15 at 11 a.m. at Kerrville County Courthouse at 700 Main Street

Longview, Texas – Wednesday, April 15 from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. at the Gregg County courthouse lawn

McAllen, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Nacogdoches, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m.at downtown square

New Braunfels, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 10 a.m.to 2 p.m., gather around local plaza and down Main Street into town

San Antonio, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., location to be announced

Woodlands, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., location to be announced

Tyler, Texas – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., location to be announced

Salt Lake City, Utah – Wednesday, April 15, downtown Salt Lake City, time and location to be announced

Charlottesville, Va. – Wednesday, April 15, from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m., downtown mall by the pavilion

Richmond, Va. – Wednesday, April 15, from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., Kanawha Plaza in downtown Richmond, 8th and Canal Street

Virginia Beach, Va. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Central Plaza, Towne Center (across from Sen. Webb’s Office)

Rutland, Vt. – Wednesday, April 15, downtown Rutland, exact time and location to be announced

Mt. Vernon, Wash. – Wednesday, April 15, from 12 p.m. to 7 p.m. on corner of College Way and Riverside Drive (1 block from freeway exit)

Olympia, Wash. – Wednesday, April 15, at 12 p.m. on the capitol steps

Seattle, Wash. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5:45 p.m. to 10:45 p.m., location to be announced

Spokane, Wash. – Wednesday, April 15, from 9 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., location to be announced

Vancouver, Wash. – Saturday, April 18, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at the Clark County Courthouse lawn

Washington, D.C. – Wednesday, April 15, from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m., Lafayette Park

Washington, D.C. – Saturday, July 4, from 9:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m., at Upper Senate Park adjacent to Capitol building on north side

Washington, D.C. – On April 1, 2009, all Americans are asked to send a teabag to Washington, D.C.

Beckley, W. Va. – Wednesday, April 15, 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., at large fountain on Neville Street, across from university book store

Charleston, W. Va. – Wednesday, April 15, 12 p.m., at state capitol

Wheeling, W. Va. – Wednesday, April 15, time and location to be announced

Appleton, Wis. – Wednesday, April 15, from 5:30 p.m. to 7 p.m., at Fox Banquets, 111 E. Kimball

Madison, Wis. – Wednesday, April 15, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., at state capitol

Cheyenne, Wyo. – July 4, at 12 p.m. at the state capitol building
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)
you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
Now this is change i can believe in...lol
I don't know if i'm happy or scared that BO is turning out to be clueless... 2010 will bring back the balance that is needed hopefully? That's if the conservative leaders get their shit together? Big If...
Love is the answer
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
yeah, that's why the economy isn't rebounding... we need to pay more taxes...brilliant... lol
Love is the answer
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
yeah, that's why the economy isn't rebounding... we need to pay more taxes...brilliant... lol
The only thing that will help the economy is to have more money flowing through it, or money flowing through it faster.

Raising taxes is one way to achieve that.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7009
Well, as long as out pres is spending money like he is, taxes do need to be increased. 

The best way to fix the economy imo would be to cut down on wasteful spending and taxes, but right now we are not doing either.

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2009-03-15 19:43:50)

Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
yeah, that's why the economy isn't rebounding... we need to pay more taxes...brilliant... lol
The only thing that will help the economy is to have more money flowing through it, or money flowing through it faster.

Raising taxes is one way to achieve that.
incorrect
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

The best way to fix the economy imo would be to cut down on wasteful spending and taxes, but right now we are not doing either.
Long term that's gonna help get things stabilised again.

But, in the short term, the international economy is fucked and countries need to do anything they can to keep their economies going.

In the longer term, the economic structures and policies we currently have are going to need a radical overhaul (the system as it is now is inherently flawed (exponential growth in a world of finite resources is unsustainable)).
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
Money also comes from small businesses who can't hire new people or buy new equipment when their taxes go up...
But they can generate more money if unencumbered by high taxes and end up hiring more people(taxpayers) buy more equipment(taxes on equipment)... but if BO wants to take every extra dime everyone has(and he will try...just wait) then business owners will throttle back and wait until he is out of office... so no new taxes will be collected from thriving businesses and from consumers who have extra money in their pockets...

I can say all this but the proof will be in the next 6-18 months... sit back and watch...
   and if i am wrong... i will apologize to anyone that said raising taxes for a govt that will find more ways to waste it than any of us can comprehend is a good thing...   Check out Social Security(bankrupt virtually) Medicare(going down the tubes and guzzling tax dollars)  etc etc...

I lived through Jimmy Carter 76-80... BO is on track to make Carter look like an amateur...
Love is the answer
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol
The depression wasn't cause by a global credit crisis. There was barely even a 'global economy' to speak of.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:


yeah, that's why the economy isn't rebounding... we need to pay more taxes...brilliant... lol
The only thing that will help the economy is to have more money flowing through it, or money flowing through it faster.

Raising taxes is one way to achieve that.
incorrect
How so?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6903|132 and Bush

myea they started popping up a couple weeks ago..
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 6#p2532846
Just doesn't have the zest like the original.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
Money also comes from small businesses who can't hire new people or buy new equipment when their taxes go up...
Money doesn't come from small businesses at all.

There is only one organisation in the States that can generate money.

The federal reserve.

That's where your money comes from.

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol
The depression wasn't cause by a global credit crisis. There was barely even a 'global economy' to speak of.
But the cause is relatively independent of the solution.

There was a global economy however. Our depression did have a significant effect on other countries.

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


The only thing that will help the economy is to have more money flowing through it, or money flowing through it faster.

Raising taxes is one way to achieve that.
incorrect
How so?
Raising taxes does not make money flow more freely throughout the economy. If government spending is accompanied by that increase in taxes, then there is more money moving, but not due to the taxes themselves. If the government engages in deficit spending it will be much more effective.

In general though, to get the economy going you have to get consumers and businesses spending money. Increasing taxes is not a mean to those ends.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
Money also comes from small businesses who can't hire new people or buy new equipment when their taxes go up...
Money doesn't come from small businesses at all.

There is only one organisation in the States that can generate money.

The federal reserve.

That's where your money comes from.

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
Man, I'm sorry, you really don't know your economics.

The federal reserve can't make money. They can only change how much money is in the economy, but by doing that they change the value of the money already in the supply. The overall value of the economy can only change with production.

Money sitting somewhere has no value. The money itself is worthless. When money gains its value is when that money is moved throughout the economy, something that consumers and businesses do well.
xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6645|California

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
Well, technically there is an infinite supply but that'd involve the same thing happening as when Germany tried doing that. Money doesn't just come from the federal reserve either.

EDIT: Ah-ha. Here's the pic I was looking for in relation to my Germany comment:

https://pro.corbis.com/images/HU007336.jpg?size=67&uid={1C08186F-B9B1-4B45-8FFD-5B8F660A0C84}

By the way, that's fucking paper money they are playing with

Last edited by xBlackPantherx (2009-03-15 20:07:05)

Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
Money also comes from small businesses who can't hire new people or buy new equipment when their taxes go up...
Money doesn't come from small businesses at all.

There is only one organisation in the States that can generate money.

The federal reserve.

That's where your money comes from.

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
hahahaha... now i know you have no idea what you are talking about...  Small businesses don't create money... can i quote you on that pearl of wisdom...   

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=9517

and
http://usmayors.org/usmayornewspaper/do … outier.asp
"Small businesses are not only the heart of the American economy in good times; they are the driving force behind an economic turnaround. It has historically been small business, not large corporations that have pulled our nation out of economic slumps. And today, small businesses play an even greater role in the economic rebound of cities, both large and small," Cloutier said.
Love is the answer
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol
The depression wasn't cause by a global credit crisis. There was barely even a 'global economy' to speak of.
But the cause is relatively independent of the solution.

There was a global economy however. Our depression did have a significant effect on other countries.
The cause is not independent of the solution.

One doesn't cut off one's ear to cure a headache.

And, yes, of there was a global economy, but not one that could be compared to today's global economy - we're almost at the point where thinking in terms of individual countries having individual economies that, though connected, work separately, is basically wrong.

We have to start thinking of the separate economies as parts of a single global economy.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


incorrect
How so?
Raising taxes does not make money flow more freely throughout the economy. If government spending is accompanied by that increase in taxes, then there is more money moving, but not due to the taxes themselves. If the government engages in deficit spending it will be much more effective.

In general though, to get the economy going you have to get consumers and businesses spending money. Increasing taxes is not a mean to those ends.
Business can not spend because banks will not lend.
Consumers can not spend, because they don't have spare money.

Government can spend, loan, or can give away money, however (via the reserve).

But as I've said, money is a finite resource, they have to get that money from somewhere.

And they can't borrow it - the rest of the world is in the same boat - there's no-one to borrow from.

Not that borrowing money to solve a credit problem is a wise idea - you just end up in more debt.
topthrill05
Member
+125|6881|Rochester NY USA
Under Bush we spent like crazy while keeping taxes low.... Under BO we are spending like crazy but are planning on raising taxes.

Both are flawed, but if we are going to have wars across the globe and entitlement programs along with massive bailouts then sorry taxes are just gonna have to go up. The question is who do we tax? Really we can't just ask those that don't have much to throw in even more and taxing the shit out of the rich sure isn't right either.

But it's to late to go back to good ol conservative principles, the hole is way to deep and Bush dug it for us.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol
The depression wasn't cause by a global credit crisis. There was barely even a 'global economy' to speak of.
But the cause is relatively independent of the solution.

There was a global economy however. Our depression did have a significant effect on other countries.
The cause is not independent of the solution.

One doesn't cut off one's ear to cure a headache.

And, yes, of there was a global economy, but not one that could be compared to today's global economy - we're almost at the point where thinking in terms of individual countries having individual economies that, though connected, work separately, is basically wrong.

We have to start thinking of the separate economies as parts of a single global economy.
Yet penicillin cures a whole host of diseases.

The solution to the global economy is essentially the same as the solution to the smaller, linked economies however, and those are the only economies that have authorities that can do anything to effect them for the better.

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


How so?
Raising taxes does not make money flow more freely throughout the economy. If government spending is accompanied by that increase in taxes, then there is more money moving, but not due to the taxes themselves. If the government engages in deficit spending it will be much more effective.

In general though, to get the economy going you have to get consumers and businesses spending money. Increasing taxes is not a mean to those ends.
Business can not spend because banks will not lend.
Consumers can not spend, because they don't have spare money.

Government can spend, loan, or can give away money, however (via the reserve).

But as I've said, money is a finite resource, they have to get that money from somewhere.

And they can't borrow it - the rest of the world is in the same boat - there's no-one to borrow from.

Not that borrowing money to solve a credit problem is a wise idea - you just end up in more debt.
Lower interest rates (already been done) and businesses can invest.

Cut taxes, consumers have spare money to spend.

Thinking about how the future economy will be in shambles is of no point if there is no future economy in the first place.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:


Money also comes from small businesses who can't hire new people or buy new equipment when their taxes go up...
Money doesn't come from small businesses at all.

There is only one organisation in the States that can generate money.

The federal reserve.

That's where your money comes from.

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
hahahaha... now i know you have no idea what you are talking about...  Small businesses don't create money...
The idea that you can 'generate money' is where the fallacy of the current global economic systems lie.

Planet earth, it's resources, and our money, based on those resources is finite.

You can not just keep on 'generating' money.

That money has to come from somewhere.

And it comes from that finite supply of resources.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

you could pay more taxes.

or you could let the economy collapse.

your choice.
The national financing does not work like your checkbook.
The money has to come from somewhere.

It doesn't grow on trees.

State and federal funding may be separated to some extent, but it all comes out of the same, finite, pile of dollars.
But that's the thing, it doesn't.

Do you want our government to do the same thing it did in the early 1930s? lol
The depression wasn't cause by a global credit crisis. There was barely even a 'global economy' to speak of.
But the cause is relatively independent of the solution.

There was a global economy however. Our depression did have a significant effect on other countries.
The cause is not independent of the solution.

One doesn't cut off one's ear to cure a headache.

And, yes, of there was a global economy, but not one that could be compared to today's global economy - we're almost at the point where thinking in terms of individual countries having individual economies that, though connected, work separately, is basically wrong.

We have to start thinking of the separate economies as parts of a single global economy.
Yet penicillin cures a whole host of diseases.
That all have, essentially, the same cause - a bacterial infection.

If you have a virus, there's no point in treating it with penicillin.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The solution to the global economy is essentially the same as the solution to the smaller, linked economies however, and those are the only economies that have authorities that can do anything to effect them for the better.
I agree with that.

But borrowing money is not the answer.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


Raising taxes does not make money flow more freely throughout the economy. If government spending is accompanied by that increase in taxes, then there is more money moving, but not due to the taxes themselves. If the government engages in deficit spending it will be much more effective.

In general though, to get the economy going you have to get consumers and businesses spending money. Increasing taxes is not a mean to those ends.
Business can not spend because banks will not lend.
Consumers can not spend, because they don't have spare money.

Government can spend, loan, or can give away money, however (via the reserve).

But as I've said, money is a finite resource, they have to get that money from somewhere.

And they can't borrow it - the rest of the world is in the same boat - there's no-one to borrow from.

Not that borrowing money to solve a credit problem is a wise idea - you just end up in more debt.
Lower interest rates (already been done) and businesses can invest.

Cut taxes, consumers have spare money to spend.

Thinking about how the future economy will be in shambles is of no point if there is no future economy in the first place.
Businesses can invest what when they can't raise capital (because banks won't lend)?

Consumers don't have spare money - they're up to their eyeballs in debt.

If we don't fix the way our economies work there won't be a future.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


Money doesn't come from small businesses at all.

There is only one organisation in the States that can generate money.

The federal reserve.

That's where your money comes from.

And, I've said it already, I'm gonna say it now, and I'll probably have to say it again - there is not an infinite supply of money.
hahahaha... now i know you have no idea what you are talking about...  Small businesses don't create money...
The idea that you can 'generate money' is where the fallacy of the current global economic systems lie.

Planet earth, it's resources, and our money, based on those resources is finite.

You can not just keep on 'generating' money.

That money has to come from somewhere.

And it comes from that finite supply of resources.
No offense but you really have no clue...  you do know the world is round right? and there is no Easter bunny...lol
Do you really think that one day someone will cry out... oh shit... we have no more money...
pay attention next year in 10th grade
and learn as much as you can... reading is good also... lol
Love is the answer
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7009|67.222.138.85
Okay stupid metaphor is getting stupid haha. I'm pretty sure you know I have a response.

There are distinct problems in the system, but the answers to those problems aren't relevant until we're in good shape again. Solutions of saving money, institutions only taking acceptable amounts of risk, etc. It doesn't change how we have to deal with it at this point.

And money is not a resource dude. It is an arbitrary representation of resources. There can be as "much" or as "little" as someone chooses to define it as.

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