Banned Books

2009-02-17 18:16:24

#1

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6750|Chicago, IL

So, my girlfriend is writing an essay about book banning in America, and I got me thinking about the issue.

All those for it say that the books are banned because of dangerous or obscene content, including books detailing how to construct homemade weapons and pornography, citing a clear and imminent danger to society.

Those against simply point to the US constitution, which explicitly disallows any law restricting freedom of speech, even if the speech is highly offensive.

While I understand the desire to get "how to make pipe bombs" off library shelves, much of the anger of book banners has been directed not at the obvious, but at books considered classics, including works by Mark Twain, William Faulkner, and George Orwell, for their political and social stances.

In a country that prides itself on a nearly unmatched level of personal freedom, there is no place for this kind of thought. As long as we allow The Ku Klux Klan, The American Nazi Party, and Westboro Baptist to spew hate from their soap boxes, we must also allow our authors past and present to voice their opinions, even if others don't want to hear it.

I'm curious to see what BF2s thinks of this issue, discuss.

2009-02-17 18:18:37

#2

Hakei: Banned; +295|6298

No. People should be allowed to read what they want.

2009-02-17 18:24:14

#3

jsnipy: ...; +3,277|6825|...

Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read what they want.

2009-02-17 18:26:42

#4

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6456|what

Never.

A good example of non-book banning is with eBay, which has banned the selling of WW2 Nazi memorabilia. An act like that isn't going to change what happened. Covering up the past isn't going to make us learn from our mistakes, quite the opposite. An important part of history to be censored in such a way in insane imo. You can't find the propaganda posters, so you can't tell what the people of the time were going through. Reading about it in a textbook in seeing it behind glass in a museum is never the same.

edit:

got a pm from a curious customer re: ebay's policy

Ebay Site Policy wrote:
eBay has always exercised judgment in allowing or disallowing certain listings consistent with the spirit of a worldwide community. Therefore, eBay will judiciously disallow listings or items that promote or glorify hatred, violence, racial or religious intolerance, or items that promote organizations (such as the KKK, Nazis, neo-Nazis and Aryan Nation) with such views. For example, eBay will generally remove items that bear the marks of such organizations, such as relics from the KKK or certain Nazi memorabilia.

Source from ebay

Examples of items that will generally be removed:

* Items that bear symbols of the Nazis, the SS, or the KKK, including authentic German WWII memorabilia such as Olympic medals that bear such marks
* Items that were owned by or affiliated with Nazi leaders
* Music or films that promote hatred and racial supremacy
* Holocaust denial books
* Crime scene photographs
* Morgue shots
* Letters and artwork from notorious murderers
* Electric chairs and related capital punishment items

Examples of items that may generally be listed:

* German coins and postage stamps (canceled or otherwise) from the WWII era regardless of markings
* WWII memorabilia that does not bear the Nazi or SS markings
* Books and movies about WWII or Nazi Germany that do not contain propaganda, even if the Nazi symbol appears on the item
* War documentaries or documentary photos portraying victims of war or violence provided they do not contain propaganda
* Items of historical importance associated with acts of violence against public figures

I've bolded what I don't agree with. Simply bearing the mark SS is enough to refuse an ebay listing.

Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-02-17 18:38:03)

2009-02-17 18:27:02

#5

andy12: Banned; +52|6960

"Should Governments be allowed"? Well it's not up to me to tell 1940's Germany, Burma, China, Eastern Europe, Cuba, Russia, etc what they can allow. Though if you are serious on making a bomb or carrying out a large scale attack you will find means outside of legal books...

2009-02-17 18:51:39

#6

destruktion_6143: Was ist Loos?; +154|6930|Canada

honestly, the limitation of information is just what the "evil nazis" did. remember the book burnings of jewish literature? ya, like reaper said, u cant just cover up the past...

2009-02-17 21:23:40

#7

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6297|Truthistan

ummmm

Start with Gideons, I hear is causes all sorts of problems.

2009-02-17 21:35:03

#8

Roger Lesboules: Ah ben tabarnak!; +316|6880|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

AussieReaper wrote:
Never.

A good example of non-book banning is with eBay, which has banned the selling of WW2 Nazi memorabilia. An act like that isn't going to change what happened. Covering up the past isn't going to make us learn from our mistakes, quite the opposite. An important part of history to be censored in such a way in insane imo. You can't find the propaganda posters, so you can't tell what the people of the time were going through. Reading about it in a textbook in seeing it behind glass in a museum is never the same.

edit:

got a pm from a curious customer re: ebay's policy

Ebay Site Policy wrote:
eBay has always exercised judgment in allowing or disallowing certain listings consistent with the spirit of a worldwide community. Therefore, eBay will judiciously disallow listings or items that promote or glorify hatred, violence, racial or religious intolerance, or items that promote organizations (such as the KKK, Nazis, neo-Nazis and Aryan Nation) with such views. For example, eBay will generally remove items that bear the marks of such organizations, such as relics from the KKK or certain Nazi memorabilia.
Source from ebay

Examples of items that will generally be removed:

* Items that bear symbols of the Nazis, the SS, or the KKK, including authentic German WWII memorabilia such as Olympic medals that bear such marks
* Items that were owned by or affiliated with Nazi leaders
* Music or films that promote hatred and racial supremacy
* Holocaust denial books
* Crime scene photographs
* Morgue shots
* Letters and artwork from notorious murderers
* Electric chairs and related capital punishment items

Examples of items that may generally be listed:

* German coins and postage stamps (canceled or otherwise) from the WWII era regardless of markings
* WWII memorabilia that does not bear the Nazi or SS markings
* Books and movies about WWII or Nazi Germany that do not contain propaganda, even if the Nazi symbol appears on the item
* War documentaries or documentary photos portraying victims of war or violence provided they do not contain propaganda
* Items of historical importance associated with acts of violence against public figures
I've bolded what I don't agree with. Simply bearing the mark SS is enough to refuse an ebay listing.

Since when did they started this policy? Last time i looked on eBay for a copy of Mein Kampf there was plenty of em. Also, banning books is just plain stupid!

2009-02-17 21:37:13

#9

Noobpatty: ʎʇʇɐdqoou; +194|6657|West NY

jsnipy wrote:
Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read and write what they want.

cwatididthar?

2009-02-17 21:39:10

#10

Beduin: Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid; +510|6053|شمال

Yes

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic

2009-02-17 21:39:30

#11

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7065

Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read what they want.

really? so who is to judge what? should there be a porn section in the sunday paper? how about a KKK book in the school library?

2009-02-17 21:43:50

#12

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6456|what

Roger Lesboules wrote:
Since when did they started this policy? Last time i looked on eBay for a copy of Mein Kampf there was plenty of em. Also, banning books is just plain stupid!

Since 2002.

And Mein Kampf isn't banned from ebay because it can be considered for research and study purposes. You could probably pick up a copy from a library without trying hard to find one.

2009-02-17 21:48:02

#13

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6803|so randum

AussieReaper wrote:
Roger Lesboules wrote:
Since when did they started this policy? Last time i looked on eBay for a copy of Mein Kampf there was plenty of em. Also, banning books is just plain stupid!
Since 2002.

And Mein Kampf isn't banned from ebay because it can be considered for research and study purposes. You could probably pick up a copy from a library without trying hard to find one.

i remember getting access to some nazi reading stuff when i was doing coursework on it in 6th form. fucking hard.

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2009-02-17 21:50:15

#14

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7065

AussieReaper wrote:
And Mein Kampf isn't banned from ebay because it can be considered for research and study purposes.

it should be in the cartoon section and re-named "I was rejected by a Jewish art school so I convinced most of germany we have to kill all Jews because I have a small penis"

2009-02-17 21:54:55

#15

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6884|the dank(super) side of Oregon

usmarine wrote:
Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read what they want.
really? so who is to judge what? should there be a porn section in the sunday paper? how about a KKK book in the school library?

there's a difference between regulating material and banning it.

2009-02-17 22:11:40

#16

BVC: Member; +325|6998

There are certain situations in which book banning serves the interest of public safety (eg. the anarchist's cookbook, jolly roger etc), but in general I'm opposed to it.

Specifically, I think banning holocaust denial is retarded - if people want to deny it, let them - they'll look as idiotic as those who claim the earth is flat.

2009-02-17 22:55:41

#17

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX

No.
People can be prosecuted for writing certain things, racial hatred, inciting crime etc, no need to change the system.

usm wrote:
it should be in the cartoon section and re-named "I was rejected by a Jewish art school so I convinced most of germany we have to kill all Jews because I have a small penis"

The most failed post ever?

Fuck Israel

2009-02-18 00:18:05

#18

HollisHurlbut: Member; +51|6301

AussieReaper wrote:
Simply bearing the mark SS is enough to refuse an ebay listing.

Let's start reporting listings of Chevy vehicles that come with the Super Sport package.

"Blue 2007 Chev Monte Carlo SS: rollin' with the power of Himmler!"

2009-02-18 03:13:08

#19

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6714|'Murka

usmarine wrote:
Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read what they want.
really? so who is to judge what? should there be a porn section in the sunday paper? how about a KKK book in the school library?

That's not the same thing as not banning a book.

Those things are available to those who want to read them. If they were banned, they wouldn't be available at all, would be illegal to possess, etc.

My take is that nothing should be banned by the government, but specific businesses/organizations also have the right to limit what they offer to the general public based on their own published guidelines.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-02-18 03:14:47

#20

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6714|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:
Hitler, has only got one ball

I thought that was Sammy Small?

Spoiler (highlight to read):
waits to see who gets the reference

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-02-18 04:01:29

#21

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6954|USA

No to banning books, however, if someone buys a book on making pipe bombs or chrystal meth, I say it is fair game for surveillance to determain intent

2009-02-18 04:04:34

#22

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6924|London, England

lol books, there's something called internet if you want to learn to build a pipe nuclear bomb.

2009-02-18 05:44:48

#23

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7113|Nårvei

usmarine wrote:
Hakei wrote:
No. People should be allowed to read what they want.
really? so who is to judge what? should there be a porn section in the sunday paper? how about a KKK book in the school library?

It's not the book that poses a threat it's the reader ... like you say it's not the gun that kills ...

So banning books is a definate big fat NO

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-02-18 05:49:38

#24

13/f/taiwan: Member; +940|6002

lowing wrote:
No to banning books, however, if someone buys a book on making pipe bombs or chrystal meth, I say it is fair game for surveillance to determain intent

They government "tracks" you if you buy those sorts of books.

Then again, nothing is stopping someone from putting on the internet for millions to view or robbing the book. So yeah, I doubt tracking would work these days.

2009-02-18 06:12:42

#25

Beduin: Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid; +510|6053|شمال

"I" would as a ruler ban ANYTHING that :
1. Can be a risk to national security.
2. Damage the nations international relationships (politically and economically).

And "I" will ban at ANY cost.

Varegg wrote:
So in those cases banning ANYTHING is a definate big fat Y E S

fixed...lol

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic

Yes.	9%	9% - 7
No.	90%	90% - 64
I don't read books.	0%	0% - 0
Total: 71

BF2S Forums Banned Books

Poll

Hakei wrote:

Ebay Site Policy wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Ebay Site Policy wrote:

jsnipy wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Roger Lesboules wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Roger Lesboules wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Hakei wrote:

usm wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Hakei wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Hakei wrote:

lowing wrote:

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