ATG
Banned
+5,233|6832|Global Command
Mobocracy: 1. Political control by a mob. 2. The mass of common people as the source of political control.

https://socialismandliberation.org/img/mag/v2/verano_otono/cover.jpg

In the United States, we are under a system of representative republic.

These succinct definitions of what is Democracy and what is a Republic was produced by the US Army in 1928,  These definitions have been quietly withdrawn since, soon after.

But capital not only lives upon labor. Like a master, at once distinguished and barbarous, it drags with it into its grave the corpses of its slaves, whole hecatombs of workers, who perish in the crises.

The more I read the more it seems that democracy is actually close to communism.

And, isn't democracy what we have been claiming to spread in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea?

Our current system of appointing people to lead us who prove inept, corrupt and blatantly power-mad seems bound to fail.

So, what is the best system to replace what we have.

I ask because our system seems to be doomed, and a continuation of boom and bust, false freedoms, war mongering and financial scandal seems unsavory.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5889

The system is fine leave it. We're just going through a rough patch that happens naturally with things like this and after it's all done everything will be fine.

Our ancestors didn't throw away capitalism and democracy during the great depression and it all worked out fine till this point.
Mobocracy is not a good thing, sometimes you need to do unpopular things in order to get shit done.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

A Socialist Democracy is the way to go.

I don't think I'll truly understand the absolute fear and hate for government (any forms) that a lot of Americans seem to have. I can understand hating Communism as it is alien and we all went through the Reds under the Beds McCarthy era. But the I hate big govt. or small govts. are too inept, everyone is corrupt, etc is really a disturbing thought process. For my way of thinking is that the government (Western anyway) is out to help us. They fuck up, as well all do, but that's why you have the power to vote them in and out.

I think it goes down to the power of the vote. Australians have a very powerful voice in politics because we have the largest voting numbers in terms of % of the pop that does vote, in the world. State, federal and local.

Take the power of vote away and I'm sure govts. seem really against you I guess.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85
good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

TheAussieReaper wrote:

A Socialist Democracy is the way to go.

I don't think I'll truly understand the absolute fear and hate for government (any forms) that a lot of Americans seem to have. I can understand hating Communism as it is alien and we all went through the Reds under the Beds McCarthy era. But the I hate big govt. or small govts. are too inept, everyone is corrupt, etc is really a disturbing thought process. For my way of thinking is that the government (Western anyway) is out to help us. They fuck up, as well all do, but that's why you have the power to vote them in and out.

I think it goes down to the power of the vote. Australians have a very powerful voice in politics because we have the largest voting numbers in terms of % of the pop that does vote, in the world. State, federal and local.

Take the power of vote away and I'm sure govts. seem really against you I guess.
It's because you don't understand the scale of our government. You don't understand how un-fucking believably hard it is to hold politicians in Washington accountable. I'm not afraid of big government. I just prefer to be governed locally.. in places where you can physically go down to the office and toss the bums out on there face (you get the point). People in Delaware should not be deciding whats best for me in Florida, or vice versa. We are too diverse a population and we have different needs.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
I believe the truth to be somewhere in between. I haven't read that book, but I have read similar.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85
Does no one else have the nightmare of being the only sane person around?

That's what the idea of an out of control government makes me think of. It is just unacceptable to give someone that much control over you.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6832|Global Command

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
Oh I get it and wouldn't think you were an ass for posting that link.
The actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with that founded our country have been left so far behind we have to rethink everything.

Or have a do over.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
I believe the truth to be somewhere in between. I haven't read that book, but I have read similar.
I wasn't quoting a book, I was literally quoting the google search "madison tyranny of the majority". Hence the "really not trying to be an ass" statement.

ATG wrote:

Or have a do over.
Once upon a time, I was chided by a certain someone for suggesting a rewrite of the Constitution.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
I believe the truth to be somewhere in between. I haven't read that book, but I have read similar.
I wasn't quoting a book, I was literally quoting the google search "madison tyranny of the majority". Hence the "really not trying to be an ass" statement.
You threw me.. I thought there was more there with the "good reading" remark .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

I certainly believe the "Governments are meant to fear it's people, not the other way around." US politicians should be held more accountable, but sadly aren't.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6683|MN
All we have to do is get ATG liquored/drugged up, armed, and dropped off in DC.  He will hold them accountable.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

TheAussieReaper wrote:

I certainly believe the "Governments are meant to fear it's people, not the other way around." US politicians should be held more accountable, but sadly aren't.
Nope. This is a product of big insanely huge Government me thinks.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85

LividBovine wrote:

All we have to do is get ATG liquored/drugged up, armed, and dropped off in DC.  He will hold them accountable.
"Lib v. Con: Round 2"
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6683|MN

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

All we have to do is get ATG liquored/drugged up, armed, and dropped off in DC.  He will hold them accountable.
"Lib v. Con: Round 2"
Nope.  Just saying he would love nothing more than holdng each one of our politicians personally accountable for their wrongs against our great country.  Part of me would love to see a reduction of government via this method.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7071

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

The system is fine leave it. We're just going through a rough patch that happens naturally with things like this and after it's all done everything will be fine.
Which system is fine? The American system?
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5889

BN wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

The system is fine leave it. We're just going through a rough patch that happens naturally with things like this and after it's all done everything will be fine.
Which system is fine? The American system?
Yeah that one.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

one question ATG......

never heard you bitch and moan about this stuff when you had your business and was making good money hiring illegals.  so, if it was the system that took care of you, what is your problem?  its not the systems fault you dont have advanced education.  the system gave you the chance to do that, but YOU made the CHOICE not to.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7071

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

BN wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

The system is fine leave it. We're just going through a rough patch that happens naturally with things like this and after it's all done everything will be fine.
Which system is fine? The American system?
Yeah that one.
You think the system is fine?

Where money is speech? Where only the highest paying lobbyists get more of a say than anyone?

When there is such a disparity between rich and poor?
nickb64
formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]
+77|5914|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

All we have to do is get ATG liquored/drugged up, armed, and dropped off in DC.  He will hold them accountable.
"Lib v. Con: Round 2"
Most efficient way of dealing with troublesome politicians: shoot them.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5889

BN wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

BN wrote:


Which system is fine? The American system?
Yeah that one.
You think the system is fine?

Where money is speech? Where only the highest paying lobbyists get more of a say than anyone?

When there is such a disparity between rich and poor?
Up to this point the system was working pretty well for the majority of the people in the country. Also there will always be poor, our economy needs  them.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6832|Global Command

usmarine wrote:

one question ATG......

never heard you bitch and moan about this stuff when you had your business and was making good money hiring illegals.  so, if it was the system that took care of you, what is your problem?  its not the systems fault you dont have advanced education.  the system gave you the chance to do that, but YOU made the CHOICE not to.
You're on crack dude.

Here's one from almost three years ago; http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=497171#p497171


The system didn't take care of me, I managed to make a living despite of it.

Fuck everybody that defends this fucked up system. Shoot the motherfucking illegal aliens for all I care.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

ATG wrote:

usmarine wrote:

one question ATG......

never heard you bitch and moan about this stuff when you had your business and was making good money hiring illegals.  so, if it was the system that took care of you, what is your problem?  its not the systems fault you dont have advanced education.  the system gave you the chance to do that, but YOU made the CHOICE not to.
You're on crack dude.

Here's one from almost three years ago; http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=497171#p497171


The system didn't take care of me, I managed to make a living despite of it.

Fuck everybody that defends this fucked up system. Shoot the motherfucking illegal aliens for all I care.
Stop trying to butter me up
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

BN wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:


Yeah that one.
You think the system is fine?

Where money is speech? Where only the highest paying lobbyists get more of a say than anyone?

When there is such a disparity between rich and poor?
Up to this point the system was working pretty well for the majority of the people in the country. Also there will always be poor, our economy needs  them.
Really? Our economy needs leeches that pay nothing yet benefit from everyone elses hard work? How so pray tell?
JahManRed
wank
+646|6931|IRELAND

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

good reading (not being an ass lol)

We really don't have a Democracy, and at the very least the ideals of the system put in place are top notch. Not the feel-good ideals everyone thinks we were founded on, but the actual, selfish ideals that wealthy intellectuals came up with.
I believe the truth to be somewhere in between. I haven't read that book, but I have read similar.
Maybe the US is just too dam big. With too big a government. Maybe its time to decentralise power back to the individual states.  I would say decentralise power to a structure similar to the EU, but that just created bureaucracy on a level never witnessed before. Independent states and all the trade agreements etc that go along with it might equal a prosperous Continental economy. Then the Neo Cons can play a mini version of their New World order at home, among the states, free trade etc.

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