BF2S Forums No war crimes trials for Israelis

Lets just get this one point straight.  As long as Hamas continues to lob rockets into Israel, Israel is going to hit back.  As long as their cache of weapons and their hiding spots are in civilian populations there are going to casualties.  And make no mistake about it.  They are doing this intentionally so they can parade around these dead bodies and whine what Israel is doing to them.

Is Israel attacking the West Bank?  No, and it's because they aren't lobbing rockets.  Are they fighting with Syria right now?  No they aren't.  They don't bother Lebanon unless Hezbollah starts shit.  Even Egypt doesn't want the Palestinians and have blocked the border.

Actually, interesting question...

Did the Nazis get done for war crimes when they suppressed those terrorists in Warsaw in 1943?

Last edited by Braddock (2009-01-26 15:53:07)

Braddock wrote:

Did the Nazis get done for war crimes when they suppressed those terrorists in Warsaw in 1943?

Yes, hence the Israeli concern that their troops will be liable for their actions in Gaza.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/n … 205290.stm
Lets hope THEY run scared for the next 60 years.

The Nuremberg Principles seem to have it all covered, I guess thats what they are afraid of

'(a) Crimes against peace:
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War Crimes:
Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation of slave labor or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:
Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.'

Lets hope the IDF run scared for the next 60 years.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-27 00:22:49)

Agreed, Hamas should fight better, Hezbollah have done pretty well TBH.

FEOS wrote:

A handful of incidents under question.

So far, although the whole operation is under question really.

FEOS wrote:

Only a handful of incidents.

Seemed like an awful lot of WP raining down, thats a preplanned strategy, not an incident.

I guess keeping journalists out suited their cause.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-27 04:51:16)

Technically WP isn't illegal to use in warfare for combative purposes, just frowned upon when used in urban environments (near civies) for more than screening.

M.O.A.B wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Every country and every army will put safety of its own before others. Also I would not have respect for a group who hides behind women and children, uses women and children as suicide bombers and uses hospitals, schools and apartments as firebases.

The recent combat in Gaza was a justifed response to Hamas firing rockets into Israel with the intent of harming civilians and soliders. There was no distinction between, it was indiscriminate fire. Israel both used messages to warn Palesitnians and also used precision guided munitions and surveillance, active methods to reduce casualties. If the Palestinians refused to heed warnings, then blame can not be imposed solely on Israel. The GC also I believe states that any civilian casualties that result from attacks on places used by a combative group are the fault of the group that used the site for military purposes. There's a reason why actual armies have bases and depots rather than using civilian buildings.

Gaza is also not occupied, the Israeli's pulled out their settlements and military forces in 2005, therefore responsibility of safety of the civilians lies more with Hamas.

Are you talking about IDF  ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm



Cause in gaza if you hold a child or a woman the Idf would not stop hesitate killing you. Or did you forget you glorious speech how it is right to kill civilians.

Hamas Rockets started to rain down after a embargo which made 1.5 mill people lifes a hell. And need i remind you that Gaza isn't free or west bank. When you look up 1.5 mill people and you threat them like subhumans. You don't have the right to complain about small rockets falling down on a field. When daily children where dieing in hospitals cause of the embargo.
But either you chosse to ignore things which would make you a bigot :

big·ot  n.  One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

No, you absolutely do not have to be tolerant of other people's cultures and religions.  You have every right to be a bigot.
In fact, I would defend your right to be a bigot and very gladly let everyone else know that you are one.

Or you don't have a clue about the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

I see.

A) Never said civilian casualties were good, said they happen and are a part of warfare.

B) If my neighbour, no matter what his position, starting lobbing a couple of rockets over my property, I'm going to do something regardless of his situation. You're economic situation, the condition of your country, does not give you a free pass to launch unguided rockets toward cities.

C) So because I view Hamas' method of warfare, using children as bombers and fighters, women and children as shields, non-military buildings as bases, caches and fighting positions and firing rockets with the intent of killing whoever they can (civilian and military), as being severely wrong I'm a bigot? Nice.

If you want to know the answer to the reasons of the embargo, look no further than Hamas. Its there because they are.

A) Well the way you dismiss every casualty as a casualties of war. And blindly defending that IDF has the right to kill any civilian in order to kill a hamas member.  Your clearly show that you don't have a empathy for any Palestinian life.

B) What if in this case you put some truth in it. Like say you stole more then 80 % of your neighbor house and the neighbor can't get any medicin supplies in order to keep his family alive. What then ?

C) First as i told you before. Using a child as a shield is equal to 0. IDF isn't gonna stop killing. And they proved it again and again. So no i don't believe that they are using it. Would you use a human shield if you knew the enemy didn't give a damn about it ?

And second your darling IDF is using human shields on a regular basis. But you seem to close your eyes to that.


D) Israel and US where putting a pressure on the Palestinians to hold a election. They didn't like Arafat and they made it clear. So when you only have 2 major parties at a election. You can't then say that you don't like the other party.
Israel and US got what they wished for. And that is Hamas.

Many of the points which i pointed out where you leave the half of truth out makes you a bigot. You clearly cant look objective at this.

Dilbert_X wrote:

MOAB wrote:

If my neighbour, no matter what his position, starting lobbing a couple of rockets over my property, I'm going to do something regardless of his situation.

If your neighbour started moving his fences onto your land, cutting down your trees, cutting off your water supply, blocking your driveway so you can't get in or out to get food, what would you do?

Since I was the one who fired rockets into his land, the reaction is only prudent.  Behave and I get my land and access to food and water back.  Start lobbing rockets, I get hemmed in again.  Pretty simple really.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Only a handful of incidents.

Seemed like an awful lot of WP raining down, thats a preplanned strategy, not an incident.

I guess keeping journalists out suited their cause.

There were a lot of things raining down. It's called war.

And even so, with "an awful lot of WP raining down"...there's still only a handful of incidents. Out of thousands of sorties/missions.

Again...do the math.

I'll go ahead and make it easy for you:

FEOS wrote:

only a handful of incidents

Just copy/paste for your next attempt at a response.

This story was published in an Italian newspaper

the google translation is really bad, but

link
 

Who tells a different version of the narrative required by 'muhamawa "(resistance) is automatically an' amil 'collaborators and a danger to life. ... It helps, however the recent fratricidal clashes between Hamas and PLO. ... If Israel had ol'Egitto allowed foreign journalists to enter would have been easier. Those spaces are often threatened by Hamas.  "There is a new reality in the Middle East between Arab societies lack the cultural tradition of human rights Occurred under the regime of Arafat that the press was censored and persecuted. Hamas is even worse, "says Eyad Sarraj, a well-known psychiatrist in Gaza city.  And there is another fact that is emerging more and more evident by visiting clinics, hospitals and families of the victims of Israeli fire. In truth, the number seems much lower for almost 1300 deaths in addition to about 5,000 injured, reported by the men of Hamas and officials from several UN and the local Red Cross.  "The deaths could not be more than 500 or 600.  Mainly boys between 17 and 23 years recruited from the ranks of Hamas that has literally sent to slaughter, "says a doctor Shifah the hospital that will not necessarily be said, is to risk his life.  One thing, however, also confirmed by local journalists: 'We have already reported to the heads of Hamas. Why insist on inflating the numbers of victims?  Strano, inter alia, that non-governmental organizations, including the Western, the reporting without verification.  In the end, the truth may come to light.  It could be like in Jenin in 2002.  Initially we spoke of 1,500 deaths.  Then came out they were only 54, including at least 45 guerrillas who died fighting.

Sorry about the wall of  text, it pasted the Italian part  also/


The point is, could Hamas be exaggerating ? Or did Israel really kill a thousand plus helpless civilians (and hundreds of innocent children) out of malice, as most of the media suggest ?

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

And even so, with "an awful lot of WP raining down"...there's still only a handful of incidents. Out of thousands of sorties/missions.

According to you.

According to multiple reports.

Here's one:

Israeli jet fighters have flown 500 bombing missions in its offensive against Gaza-based Hamas, a senior officer said Wednesday. There have also been hundreds of combat sorties by helicopter gunships and surveillance aircraft, both manned and unmanned.

That's from 31 Dec. I'm fairly sure there were more after that.

Keep in mind that each individual mission probably involved at least two separate targets.

But don't bother trying to learn more facts or anything. Those pesky things only get in the way.