ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command

Lotta_Drool wrote:

You're right.

Hate my job, check.

Will probably lose home after paying half my earning each month to the bank for interest, check.

Hate where I live, check.

All savings and retirement wiped out, check.

Can't afford to live where I want or work doing what I like, check.

My reality check is that I am basically working to make money for the bank right now.  I must start thinking more proactively and take advantage of the system and weak laws like the banks did for years.  I need to start researching laws so I can GTFO of Oregon in a few years with a couple dollars in my pocket.  I need 2 acres and a Mule for retirement.
word.

lowing wrote:

ATG wrote:

lowing wrote:


I am sorry, but if you have a job skill that can be taken away from you by an illegal alien who does not speak english and does not even have a SS# let alone a resume' then you need to face a hard reality. You HAVE no job skill to speak of in the first place.
facesplat fail dude.
You just don't get it and you never will.
I guess I don't ATG, maybe you can tell me where my post fails. Cuz, I have never been beaten out for work by an non-English speaking illegal alien with no work history and no resume' and no SS# and no drivers license etc.....
What did you spent the last few years doing again?
Oh yeah, servicing war machines. nevermind.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England

ATG wrote:

Oh yeah, servicing war machines. nevermind.
You can always trust on the military or the military industrial complex to provide you a job, if you really are in need. What lowing is doing, is basically public sector aka gov employee. You're pretty much guaranteed to have a job there, yet he goes on about how he's better than everyone else when they're in the much more volatile private sector etc..
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command
I love the guy, but c'mon.

It's like a guy pontificating about religion who has never read the bible.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7040|Salt Lake City

lowing wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:


I do not see that at all. If you are marketable and your skill is in demand you have work. period. What is expected? That companies create jobs for no other reason than to pay someone their "entitlement"?
You're still missing the point.  Job skills that are in demand can be lost to outsourcing.  What would you do if your job skill were devalued because a flood of illegals came into the country and created such a glut that, if you managed to keep your job at all, you'd never be able to make a living at it because of oversupply driving down the wages?
I am sorry, but if you have a job skill that can be taken away from you by an illegal alien who does not speak english and does not even have a SS# let alone a resume' then you need to face a hard reality. You HAVE no job skill to speak of in the first place.

Ya see my point? If your keen compitition is an illegal alien then you might wanna rethink what you consider a marketable skill.
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, your job requires some level of security clearance.  I suspect that is a large factor in why a glut of illegals may never take your job, but being in a field that requires security is not a job skill.  If your job was not such that security clearance was required, you may find the private sector doesn't care whether the person speaks English.  If they can do the job, and are willing to do it cheaper, under the table, and work without a benefit package, you could find your skillset means absolutely jack shit.

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about uneducated workers from Latin America, that come here to pick fruit or be maids.  What if a conflict with Pakistan lead many highly educated Indians to flee to this country illegally.  They are well educated, experienced, and did the same work you do.  If your job requires background checks and security clearance, you may fine.  If you're in the private sector, all bets are off.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6487|Ireland
Excellent point, my employer hires mostly people from India and Asia for the high paying engineer positions.  They can hire the top 10 in the graduating class for peanuts, get them a work visa, and send them packing easily with no severance when they don't need them.

Lowing has a very different perspective in his line of work than what MANY in technology see.  America has been being Globalized since Regan and the sheep are still electing the people who are slaughtering the American Work Force one at a time.  It is exponential and we have reached tau.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Excellent point, my employer hires mostly people from India and Asia for the high paying engineer positions.  They can hire the top 10 in the graduating class for peanuts, get them a work visa, and send them packing easily with no severance when they don't need them.

Lowing has a very different perspective in his line of work than what MANY in technology see.  America has been being Globalized since Regan and the sheep are still electing the people who are slaughtering the American Work Force one at a time.  It is exponential and we have reached tau.
I respect Lowings losses but he is not part of the private sector per se.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

On the vote issue the US has become a bit overblown. The larger a nation becomes, the less representative and accountable the government becomes and the more prone to corruption/whims of rich special interest groups it becomes.
How very conservative sounding of you.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6410|eXtreme to the maX
Everyone is looking for easy money.

And the 'buy, pump, sell, crash, buy, pump, sell, crash....' business model is apparently being taught in business schools.

A big problem I see is there are too many people whose sole interest is in making money in the short term, not building solid sustainable businesses for the long term, building value for sharholders, providing jobs, doing whats in the interest of the company and not always their own greedy self-interest.
these characters don't give a shits about the ups and downs, as long as they make enough money on the up.
In fact the downs are a bonus, see the business model above.

Applies to government as well as business, government shouldn't be allowing all the offshoring which is killing many countries (and making many CEOs very fat).

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-16 13:36:06)

Fuck Israel
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm reading 'The Grapes Of Wrath' at the moment. It is very pertinent right now. Great book and I'm only just over halfway through. The problem is that the free market capitalism the elite designed is horribly flawed and the US system is skewed a bit too far to the right. Any system that is not designed to sustainably and consistently operate in the best interests of society needs to be sorted out. The problem is that humankind and politicians never learn from past errors - I'm reading a book set in the 1930s and the modern day version of what it documents is happening again right now some 70 years later. Globalisation has brought benefits but it has also made the economy an unwieldly, barely controllable, dangerous beast. Every human being should be entitled to employment. The system as it stands does not ensure this. That needs to be addressed. Noone can hedge for one or two years of continued unemployment or bare sustenance employment, let alone raise a family in such conditions.

In a word: we need an economic revolution.

On the vote issue the US has become a bit overblown. The larger a nation becomes, the less representative and accountable the government becomes and the more prone to corruption/whims of rich special interest groups it becomes.
I am cherry picking here Cam but I am stuck on your choice of the word "entitled"..as in "every human being should be entitled to a job'.

In my very humble opinion, it is this mindset of entitlement over earning that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. Capitalism works, it is those who do not contribute to it and still withdrawals from it that is sinking our ship.
As to the last point, could you ever expect everyone to want to pitch in? No, of course you couldn't - that's a reason unfettered capitalism's flawed
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina
I just don't understand how people believed in something with the word "dream" in it.  That usually tends to imply that it's not real.

Nowadays, it's about survival.  Our standard of living will naturally fall over time, so we must slowly adjust to living more modestly.  Our decadence was bound to be a temporary thing, so it only makes sense that we're having to cut back some.

I suppose it will be somewhat of a Darwinian process.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85

Turquoise wrote:

I just don't understand how people believed in something with the word "dream" in it.  That usually tends to imply that it's not real.

Nowadays, it's about survival.  Our standard of living will naturally fall over time, so we must slowly adjust to living more modestly.  Our decadence was bound to be a temporary thing, so it only makes sense that we're having to cut back some.

I suppose it will be somewhat of a Darwinian process.
You think society has peaked?

That opinion has piqued my interest. HAHA

No but really I am serious.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I just don't understand how people believed in something with the word "dream" in it.  That usually tends to imply that it's not real.

Nowadays, it's about survival.  Our standard of living will naturally fall over time, so we must slowly adjust to living more modestly.  Our decadence was bound to be a temporary thing, so it only makes sense that we're having to cut back some.

I suppose it will be somewhat of a Darwinian process.
You think society has peaked?

That opinion has piqued my interest. HAHA

No but really I am serious.
I don't think society has peaked in terms of social evolution, but I do think America has peaked economically.

Globalization will slowly level out the differences between our standard of living and those of the Third World.  We're already seeing it a little bit.

By the time we're senior citizens, America will probably be what we currently consider Second World.  This will also be connected to demands for global resources heightened by world population growth.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

I have no complaints I guess.  Work hard, don't get in trouble and do stupid shit.  Save my money and spend it smartly.  Ya, that's fine by me.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85

Turquoise wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I just don't understand how people believed in something with the word "dream" in it.  That usually tends to imply that it's not real.

Nowadays, it's about survival.  Our standard of living will naturally fall over time, so we must slowly adjust to living more modestly.  Our decadence was bound to be a temporary thing, so it only makes sense that we're having to cut back some.

I suppose it will be somewhat of a Darwinian process.
You think society has peaked?

That opinion has piqued my interest. HAHA

No but really I am serious.
I don't think society has peaked in terms of social evolution, but I do think America has peaked economically.

Globalization will slowly level out the differences between our standard of living and those of the Third World.  We're already seeing it a little bit.

By the time we're senior citizens, America will probably be what we currently consider Second World.  This will also be connected to demands for global resources heightened by world population growth.
What put America on top in the first place, and why is it not keeping us on top?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

btw, we need an ATG sticky or an ATG blog.  its all the same doom and gloom shit minus the occasional flip flop.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

usmarine wrote:

I have no complaints I guess.  Work hard, don't get in trouble and do stupid shit.  Save my money and spend it smartly.  Ya, that's fine by me.
marine, that's actually quite profound.

And it's generally what i live by
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

You think society has peaked?

That opinion has piqued my interest. HAHA

No but really I am serious.
I don't think society has peaked in terms of social evolution, but I do think America has peaked economically.

Globalization will slowly level out the differences between our standard of living and those of the Third World.  We're already seeing it a little bit.

By the time we're senior citizens, America will probably be what we currently consider Second World.  This will also be connected to demands for global resources heightened by world population growth.
What put America on top in the first place, and why is it not keeping us on top?
IMHO, I think World War 2 did.  You have to remember that America was relatively weak before WW2.  It wasn't until we amassed a huge and powerful military and that Europe and East Asia were left in shambles after the war that America became such a superpower.  When the Soviets fell later on, then we were definitely on top.

During that time we spent on top, however, we focused heavily on outsourcing.  It was only natural that companies would look for cheaper ways to do business, and in the process, they raised the standard of living of many of these countries.  Unfortunately, our education system didn't keep up.  We decided to subsidize industries where America didn't have the comparative advantage of producing their goods.  Automakers and agriculture come to mind.

Instead of throwing money at these industries, we should've spent that money on better educating our workforce, but now, it's too late.  All we can do now is damage control.  We can slowly move our workforce toward higher skills, but the debt we've accrued through things like these bailouts will eventually bring us down.  Still, politicians will continue to support them because all they care about is the short run (getting re-elected).

So, essentially, not having a truly free market kind of fucked us.  What fucked us even harder was not having a proactive workforce education plan on a national level.  Oh yeah, and massive debt spending didn't help either.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-01-16 15:46:40)

Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6487|Ireland

usmarine wrote:

I have no complaints I guess.  Work hard, don't get in trouble and do stupid shit.  Save my money and spend it smartly.  Ya, that's fine by me.
No hookers, No drugs? 
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

Lotta_Drool wrote:

usmarine wrote:

I have no complaints I guess.  Work hard, don't get in trouble and do stupid shit.  Save my money and spend it smartly.  Ya, that's fine by me.
No hookers, No drugs? 
never and never
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

usmarine wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

usmarine wrote:

I have no complaints I guess.  Work hard, don't get in trouble and do stupid shit.  Save my money and spend it smartly.  Ya, that's fine by me.
No hookers, No drugs? 
never and never
Alcohol is a drug.  So is caffeine.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

Turquoise wrote:

Alcohol is a drug.  So is caffeine.
illegal drugs.  you know, the law?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

usmarine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Alcohol is a drug.  So is caffeine.
illegal drugs.  you know, the law?
Alcohol used to be illegal.  Would you have stopped drinking during Prohibition?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

Turquoise wrote:

Would you have stopped drinking during Prohibition?
i dont know.  and thats irrelevant.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85

Turquoise wrote:

IMHO, I think World War 2 did.  You have to remember that America was relatively weak before WW2.  It wasn't until we amassed a huge and powerful military and that Europe and East Asia were left in shambles after the war that America became such a superpower.  When the Soviets fell later on, then we were definitely on top.
Relatively weak how? Economically? This thread is primarily about the American Dream, which is primarily about individual economic success, made possible in the micro scale by macro opportunity. The late 1800s and the 1920s might be the best time period examples of this idea.

It's true that strategically we were not on top until relatively recently, but quite honestly a strong military is only an offshoot of an excellent economy, at least as exemplified in the U.S. We won WWII out of sheer production, and it's how we outlasted the commies.

Turquoise wrote:

During that time we spent on top, however, we focused heavily on outsourcing.  It was only natural that companies would look for cheaper ways to do business, and in the process, they raised the standard of living of many of these countries.  Unfortunately, our education system didn't keep up.  We decided to subsidize industries where America didn't have the comparative advantage of producing their goods.  Automakers and agriculture come to mind.
We have always primarily respected American ingenuity. Not necessarily outsmarting our enemies or beating them out technologically, though that is typically the result, but finding ways of doing more with less better and faster. So long as outsourcing does not interfere with our ability to do just that, we shouldn't have gone anywhere relatively. As we ship unskilled jobs overseas, we should have had entrepreneurs filling in those gaps. They should have been driving education, as one way or another the number of people with a college degree would have gone up if the demand for skilled labor was there. As a culture we should have continued to push ourselves to excel in times of contentment, but we got lazy instead.

Turquoise wrote:

Instead of throwing money at these industries, we should've spent that money on better educating our workforce, but now, it's too late.All we can do now is damage control.  We can slowly move our workforce toward higher skills, but the debt we've accrued through things like these bailouts will eventually bring us down.  Still, politicians will continue to support them because all they care about is the short run (getting re-elected).
No.

God's sake be careful about what you say around your/my generation, that's the last thing we need to be hearing. Even if it is true, telling people that won't help the situation at all. Rousing people to better their standing in life should be the goal of the generation behind mine, it's the least they can do after the state of affairs they have given us.


Turquoise wrote:

So, essentially, not having a truly free market kind of fucked us.
<3
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

usmarine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Would you have stopped drinking during Prohibition?
i dont know.  and thats irrelevant.
Is it?  I'm just curious.

IMHO, not every law is worth following.

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