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2009-01-05 15:03:06
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

So that makes it ok for hamas to shoot rockets because Israel has bomb shelters?
NO IT DOES NOT! but its kind of makes it less *insert word*
OK, so we both agree on that, now, the aim of most civilized governments is to protect their populace right?
See while I would be tempted to say yes, the question is not as straight forward as that.


EDIT: SgtHeihn, do you really think the question as straight forward as that?

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-05 15:07:27)

2009-01-05 15:11:41
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:


NO IT DOES NOT! but its kind of makes it less *insert word*
OK, so we both agree on that, now, the aim of most civilized governments is to protect their populace right?
See while I would be tempted to say yes, the question is not as straight forward as that.


EDIT: SgtHeihn, do you really think the question as straight forward as that?
Yes I actually do. If Israel want the Palestinians gone they would have gotten rid of them along time ago. They don't care about about the UN, they whipped the shit outta their Arab neighbors. So what is stopping them?

They are going in to dislodge a enemy that is dedicated to their destruction and uses every chance they can to break cease fires and shoot shitty little rockets at civilians.
2009-01-05 15:14:54
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

OK, so we both agree on that, now, the aim of most civilized governments is to protect their populace right?
See while I would be tempted to say yes, the question is not as straight forward as that.


EDIT: SgtHeihn, do you really think the question as straight forward as that?
Yes I actually do. If Israel want the Palestinians gone they would have gotten rid of them along time ago. They don't care about about the UN, they whipped the shit outta their Arab neighbors. So what is stopping them?

They are going in to dislodge a enemy that is dedicated to their destruction and uses every chance they can to break cease fires and shoot shitty little rockets at civilians.
The world is stopping them!

By breaking the ceasefire, do you mean the latest ceasefire which then started the current conflict ?  Also please state when the ceasefire was due to end if you can ?

Edit: While you do seem to think its that simple, I like to examine the roots of the rockets attack, Why they continue happening, what started them, etc etc. Gives a better insight, don't you think ?

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-05 15:17:08)

2009-01-05 15:20:43
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6733|N. Ireland
Israel has every right to respond to the mortar and rocket attacks that Palestine initiated. As I was walking back to class from lunch today I passed someone with a large table and poster in the centre of the city saying how Palestine did not deserve this. I couldn't quite comprehend his statement, and my friend simply launched the question "what if it were your house being attacked by mortars?". He couldn't respond with an answer that he knew to be correct. Israelis kill Palestinians and Palestinians kill Israelis, it is inevitable and signs of it stopping are non-existant yet. But had Israel not counter-acted these weeks of shellfire it would have just continued and continued until Palestine took the extra step. And any country-respecting leader, infact even any loyal country member, would clearly fight against the attacks. So to stand back and say "Israel is wrong" for this just isn't right. Or vice versa. The situation isn't black and white, although factually-speaking I'm pretty sure Gaza is right now.

"A destruction, an annihilation that only man can provoke, only man can prevent." - Wiesel. And it couldn't be more correct. AD47, now and until peace occours.
2009-01-05 15:21:22
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
OK, cease fire ends, so peace loving hamas starts lobbing rockets?

Did the world stop them from invading Lebanon?

The world does not want to get involved in that whole area, if they would have it would have been done by now and their would have been peace.
2009-01-05 15:27:35
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
Under the previous ceasefire the Israelis were supposed to lift the blockade on Gaza, they didn't.
Fuck Israel
2009-01-05 15:29:16
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

OK, cease fire ends, so peace loving hamas starts lobbing rockets?

Did the world stop them from invading Lebanon?

The world does not want to get involved in that whole area, if they would have it would have been done by now and their would have been peace.
Lets not jump the gun. So you agree Hamas did not really break the ceasefire but more that it had come to an end anyway ?

Also sgtheihn, do you still think the question is that straight forward?

While i would agree with you that the world is full of shit and therefore does not want to get involved, pressure in the form of calling for a ceasefire and sending diplomats has an effect on isrea,l it restricts what isreal does and does not do.
2009-01-05 15:31:01
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Dilbert_X wrote:

Under the previous ceasefire the Israelis were supposed to lift the blockade on Gaza, they didn't.
Well if hamas wants things honored maybe they shouldn't have staged a coup against the PA. Oh wait, it was because the PA was working toward peace with Israel.
2009-01-05 15:31:09
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

Kmarion wrote:

Hamas then knows which buildings are about to be hit and they send force martyrs women and children to those buildings.
Got anything to back that statement up?
Fuck Israel
2009-01-05 15:32:54
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6956
If they proposed a 6 month ceasefire... who would you bet on sticking with it? 
  I'm not really on either side... I just wonder what the Palestinians/Hamas thought would happen when they ramped up their random missile attacks? 
Looks like they were trying to bait Israel into what has happened as part of their plan... There is so much anger and hatred on both sides and there will never be peace...
Love is the answer
2009-01-05 15:36:12
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

OK, cease fire ends, so peace loving hamas starts lobbing rockets?

Did the world stop them from invading Lebanon?

The world does not want to get involved in that whole area, if they would have it would have been done by now and their would have been peace.
Lets not jump the gun. So you agree Hamas did not really break the ceasefire but more that it had come to an end anyway ?

Also sgtheihn, do you still think the question is that straight forward?

While i would agree with you that the world is full of shit and therefore does not want to get involved, pressure in the form of calling for a ceasefire and sending diplomats has an effect on isrea,l it restricts what isreal does and does not do.
Do you really think Israel cares what the rest of the world thinks about them? They will still continue getting weapons from the west, and they will continue doing what they are doing.

Hamas will keep getting their money and weapons from Iran and they will continue on with their goal of the destruction of Israel.

Their will never be peace in that area.

Edit: If hamas really cared about the people of Gaza why do they keep shooting rockets? Why do they refuse to change their charter to not include the destruction of Israel?

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2009-01-05 15:38:43)

2009-01-05 15:41:00
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

OK, cease fire ends, so peace loving hamas starts lobbing rockets?

Did the world stop them from invading Lebanon?

The world does not want to get involved in that whole area, if they would have it would have been done by now and their would have been peace.
Lets not jump the gun. So you agree Hamas did not really break the ceasefire but more that it had come to an end anyway ?

Also sgtheihn, do you still think the question is that straight forward?

While i would agree with you that the world is full of shit and therefore does not want to get involved, pressure in the form of calling for a ceasefire and sending diplomats has an effect on isrea,l it restricts what isreal does and does not do.
Do you really think Israel cares what the rest of the world thinks about them? They will still continue getting weapons from the west, and they will continue doing what they are doing.

Hamas will keep getting their money and weapons from Iran and they will continue on with their goal of the destruction of Israel.

Their will never be peace in that area.

Edit: If hamas really cared about the people of Gaza why do they keep shooting rockets? Why do they refuse to change their charter to not include the destruction of Israel?
WOW, you manged to totally blank out my questions, i wonder why. GJ! +1 karma.

I know isreal does care what the whole world thinks and yeah it will continue getting weapons from the west and the cycle will continue.


EDIT: As to your first edit question, Dilbert_X answered that below. As for your second question, if Hamas recognized isreal then they will be giving away all the land so far occupied by isreal, which they can't let happen.

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-05 15:45:03)

2009-01-05 15:41:13
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

Catbox wrote:

If they proposed a 6 month ceasefire... who would you bet on sticking with it? 
  I'm not really on either side... I just wonder what the Palestinians/Hamas thought would happen when they ramped up their random missile attacks? 
Looks like they were trying to bait Israel into what has happened as part of their plan... There is so much anger and hatred on both sides and there will never be peace...
The missiles and baiting are part of the Hamas plan, they can't hope to beat Israel in a conventional war, so they suck them into a guerilla action in an urban area.

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.

If you were living in a village ringed with angry elephants would you just sit there and starve to death or would you get out and throw stones at the things?

I wouldn't bet on either side sticking to a ceasefire, there is too much belligerence on each side.
The Palestinians know the world cares nothing for them, so no doubt they would re-elect Hamas as the only organisation which can make even a feeble effort to defend them.
The only solution now is a ceasefire imposed by some external agency.
With the UN hamstrung by the USA not sure what the options are.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-05 15:42:58)

Fuck Israel
2009-01-05 15:46:30
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Dilbert_X wrote:

The missiles and baiting are part of the Hamas plan, they can't hope to beat Israel in a conventional war, so they suck them into a guerilla action in an urban area.

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.

If you were living in a village ringed with angry elephants would you just sit there and starve to death or would you get out and throw stones at the things?

I wouldn't bet on either side sticking to a ceasefire, there is too much belligerence on each side.
The Palestinians know the world cares nothing for them, so no doubt they would re-elect Hamas as the only organisation which can make even a feeble effort to defend them.
The only solution now is a ceasefire imposed by some external agency.
With the UN hamstrung by the USA not sure what the options are.
But what was the cause of this blockade? Why isn't the West Bank blockaded? Oh wait, they are working toward peace! My bad!

@mafia996630: OK, so they didn't break this one, it expired. What about the others that have broken? Why didn't they propose an extension or hell, a peace treaty? The day it ends they are back shooting rockets. Don't you see the idiocy in that?
2009-01-05 15:49:42
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

usmarine wrote:

lol arabs.

lol 34 pages
but remember they are oppressed.

Oh wait, like I said before, THE US GIVES MORE AID TO GAZA THEN ALL THE ARAB COUNTRIES COMBINED!!
2009-01-05 15:49:46
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The missiles and baiting are part of the Hamas plan, they can't hope to beat Israel in a conventional war, so they suck them into a guerilla action in an urban area.

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.

If you were living in a village ringed with angry elephants would you just sit there and starve to death or would you get out and throw stones at the things?

I wouldn't bet on either side sticking to a ceasefire, there is too much belligerence on each side.
The Palestinians know the world cares nothing for them, so no doubt they would re-elect Hamas as the only organisation which can make even a feeble effort to defend them.
The only solution now is a ceasefire imposed by some external agency.
With the UN hamstrung by the USA not sure what the options are.
But what was the cause of this blockade? Why isn't the West Bank blockaded? Oh wait, they are working toward peace! My bad!

@mafia996630: OK, so they didn't break this one, it expired. What about the others that have broken? Why didn't they propose an extension or hell, a peace treaty? The day it ends they are back shooting rockets. Don't you see the idiocy in that?
Gone be honest with you mate, I don't know about the other ones. Give me a link and ill get back to you. I do see the idiocy in that but don't you see the suffering the people were going through, with no eletricity/little water/food etc. Better to die upon your feet then to live on your knees ? ?

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-05 15:53:07)

2009-01-05 15:54:39
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The missiles and baiting are part of the Hamas plan, they can't hope to beat Israel in a conventional war, so they suck them into a guerilla action in an urban area.

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.

If you were living in a village ringed with angry elephants would you just sit there and starve to death or would you get out and throw stones at the things?

I wouldn't bet on either side sticking to a ceasefire, there is too much belligerence on each side.
The Palestinians know the world cares nothing for them, so no doubt they would re-elect Hamas as the only organisation which can make even a feeble effort to defend them.
The only solution now is a ceasefire imposed by some external agency.
With the UN hamstrung by the USA not sure what the options are.
But what was the cause of this blockade? Why isn't the West Bank blockaded? Oh wait, they are working toward peace! My bad!

@mafia996630: OK, so they didn't break this one, it expired. What about the others that have broken? Why didn't they propose an extension or hell, a peace treaty? The day it ends they are back shooting rockets. Don't you see the idiocy in that?
Gone be honest with you mate, I don't know about the other ones. Give me a link and ill get back to you. I do see the idiocy in that but don't you see the suffering the people were going through, with no eletricity/little water/food etc. Better to die upon your feet then to live on your knees ? ?
Oh wait!!! The blockade was caused by their GOVERNMENT threatening to resume suicide attacks. Instead of working to get the blockade lifted hamas decides to launch rockets. You are quick to blame Israel for the woes of the people of Gaza, but it looks more like their own government is the cause of their problems.

Answer this: Why isn't the West Bank being blockaded? Why are they not being invaded?

Edit: Oh and not to mention hamas SEIZED POWER FROM THE ELECTED GOVERNMENT because they didn't like that they were working toward PEACE!

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2009-01-05 16:01:34)

2009-01-05 15:59:03
san4
The Mas
+311|6928|NYC, a place to live

mafia996630 wrote:

While you do seem to think its that simple, I like to examine the roots of the rockets attack, Why they continue happening, what started them, etc etc. Gives a better insight, don't you think ?
Yes, those are interesting questions. What goals does Hamas seek to achieve by launching rockets at Israeli towns?
2009-01-05 16:00:22
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:


But what was the cause of this blockade? Why isn't the West Bank blockaded? Oh wait, they are working toward peace! My bad!

@mafia996630: OK, so they didn't break this one, it expired. What about the others that have broken? Why didn't they propose an extension or hell, a peace treaty? The day it ends they are back shooting rockets. Don't you see the idiocy in that?
Gone be honest with you mate, I don't know about the other ones. Give me a link and ill get back to you. I do see the idiocy in that but don't you see the suffering the people were going through, with no eletricity/little water/food etc. Better to die upon your feet then to live on your knees ? ?
Oh wait!!! The blockade was caused by their GOVERNMENT threatening to resume suicide attacks. Instead of working to get the blockade lifted hamas decides to launch rockets. You are quick to blame Israel for the woes of the people of Gaza, but it looks more like their own government is the cause of their problems.

Answer this: Why isn't the West Bank being blockaded? Why are they not being invaded?
Wow, i asked for a link and you took it as i was quick to blame isreal, hm.  Anyway I am all about saving innocent lives and therefore don't really give a shit about Hamas and what it does, hence I don't really want/need to answer that question. Hamas is evil, i agree with you ?
2009-01-05 16:00:57
san4
The Mas
+311|6928|NYC, a place to live

Dilbert_X wrote:

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.
Since when has Iran been blockaded?
2009-01-05 16:02:07
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
Gaza has been blockaded.
Fuck Israel
2009-01-05 16:03:39
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6911|UK

san4 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The missiles are dumb TBH, but when your country has been blockaded for years there is an incredible anger which has to be released.
Since when has Iran been blockaded?
34 pages of hamas vs isreal in gaza and you inject..........Iran?
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-01-05 16:04:32
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6840|132 and Bush

Dilbert_X wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Hamas then knows which buildings are about to be hit and they send force martyrs women and children to those buildings.
Got anything to back that statement up?
I presume you accepted the rest since you decided to exclude it from the quote

Israel has been warning Palestinians using cell phones and pamphlets (they call it knocking on the roof). Hamas then knows which buildings are about to be hit and they send force martyrs women and children to those buildings. They use ambulances as troop transport. Hamas has spent the last two years turning apartment buildings, schoolhouses, and hospitals into weapons depots and military bases. How can anyone champion that?

As far as the human shield thing.. virtually every human rights organization in the world has been outspoken about it.

Hamas Admits to Using Women & Children As Human Shields
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/ … en-as.html

Another Gazan child mysteriously comes up dead at a Hamas ministry building...
https://i41.tinypic.com/2hznz45.jpg

The father of six-month-old Mohammed Bourai carries his dead son to his funeral in Gaza City following his death in an Israeli airstrike on a building housing the Hamas-run government's interior ministry. (AFP)

Notice how the Interior Ministry Building also housed families with babies? And, yet the media does not seem to think that is a bit odd?

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6166362.stm

But they knew too that a similar human shield tactic had worked a few days earlier.

The Israelis had backed off knowing that to strike would cause large numbers of civilian casualties which would, of course, have played very badly in the court of international opinion.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051305.html

The IDF has made frequent use of what is known as "knocking on the roof": Militants are warned by phone when a residential building used to store arms will be bombed, and told to vacate the premised together with their neighbors. The weapons caches are hit only after the residents leave.

Hamas has tried placing civilians on the roofs of such buildings when the phone call warning comes in. In these cases, the IDF fired antitank missiles near the building, and in a few cases the residents left.
And of course they admit it also.


.. and why wouldn't they use them? It's worked plenty of times before.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6162494.stm
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-05 16:04:34
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6726|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:


Gone be honest with you mate, I don't know about the other ones. Give me a link and ill get back to you. I do see the idiocy in that but don't you see the suffering the people were going through, with no eletricity/little water/food etc. Better to die upon your feet then to live on your knees ? ?
Oh wait!!! The blockade was caused by their GOVERNMENT threatening to resume suicide attacks. Instead of working to get the blockade lifted hamas decides to launch rockets. You are quick to blame Israel for the woes of the people of Gaza, but it looks more like their own government is the cause of their problems.

Answer this: Why isn't the West Bank being blockaded? Why are they not being invaded?
Wow, i asked for a link and you took it as i was quick to blame isreal, hm.  Anyway I am all about saving innocent lives and therefore don't really give a shit about Hamas and what it does, hence I don't really want/need to answer that question. Hamas is evil, i agree with you ?
So, if you really break the problem down, it is not Israel really causing the problems for the Gaza people. It is hamas's inability to work for peace.
Hence, hamas is causing the deaths and the suffering, not big bad Israel.
2009-01-05 16:09:19
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7003|d

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:


Oh wait!!! The blockade was caused by their GOVERNMENT threatening to resume suicide attacks. Instead of working to get the blockade lifted hamas decides to launch rockets. You are quick to blame Israel for the woes of the people of Gaza, but it looks more like their own government is the cause of their problems.

Answer this: Why isn't the West Bank being blockaded? Why are they not being invaded?
Wow, i asked for a link and you took it as i was quick to blame isreal, hm.  Anyway I am all about saving innocent lives and therefore don't really give a shit about Hamas and what it does, hence I don't really want/need to answer that question. Hamas is evil, i agree with you ?
So, if you really break the problem down, it is not Israel really causing the problems for the Gaza people. It is hamas's inability to work for peace.
Hence, hamas is causing the deaths and the suffering, not big bad Israel.
Errrrrrrrrrr..considering Hamas has only been in power for about 18 months...No is the answer to your question.

 

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