It's true. But bombing Palestine will not get rid of them, it just brings more Palestinians to their side.Kmarion wrote:
Everyone needs to stare at this and let it sink in. It's in everyone's best interest.sergeriver wrote:
After Hamas is taken out Israel will have no excuses. It's in the Palestinians best interests getting rid of Hamas.
Livni rejects Russian offer to pass messages on to Hamas
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052580.htmlForeign Minister Tzipi Livni on Sunday rejected an offer by a Russian envoy to contact Hamas via Russia in order to reach a cease-fire with the Palestinian militant group in Gaza.
"We are serious in our intention to harm Hamas and we have no intention to give them legitimize them and pass messages on to them. We have nothing to discuss with Hamas," Livni told Alexander Saltanov, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's special envoy to the Middle East.
Sickening, Poe. Simply sickening. You are better than that.CameronPoe wrote:
I certainly will be wholeheartedly cheering the death of each and every single IDF soldier soon to be announced.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I seem to remember the people of America voted in George Bush, twice in fact.ATG wrote:
I seem to remember that the people of Palestine voted in Hamas.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-04 16:27:02)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
But we like war, remember?Dilbert_X wrote:
I seem to remeber the people of America voted in George Bush, twice in fact.ATG wrote:
I seem to remember that the people of Palestine voted in Hamas.
Malloy must go
And you are wrong btw. The people voted him in once, the electoral college voted him in the second time.Dilbert_X wrote:
I seem to remeber the people of America voted in George Bush, twice in fact.ATG wrote:
I seem to remember that the people of Palestine voted in Hamas.
Malloy must go
For once I agree, thats a bit harsh. Individual soldiers, mostly conscripts, don't particularly deserve to die.FEOS wrote:
Sickening, Poe. Simply sickening. You are better than that.
But hopefully the IDF will get a whupping as they did in Lebanon, and world opinion gets behind the Palestinians.
Cam is right though, the Arabs should turn off the oil taps.
I would support them in this, whatever sacrifices I might have to make as a result.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
First time...second time he won because the Democrats actually chose someone who was worse than him (at the time).deeznutz1245 wrote:
And you are wrong btw. The people voted him in once, the electoral college voted him in the second time.Dilbert_X wrote:
I seem to remeber the people of America voted in George Bush, twice in fact.ATG wrote:
I seem to remember that the people of Palestine voted in Hamas.
ftr - I don't have a problem with Israel acting, they have to. Doesn't mean I have to wish em luck. And from what I saw they're as complicit as their leaders - ever heard of 'refuseniks': they're Israelis I can respect.
There is a world of differance between wishing someone luck and wishing someone dead so you can dance on their graves.CameronPoe wrote:
ftr - I don't have a problem with Israel acting, they have to. Doesn't mean I have to wish em luck. And from what I saw they're as complicit as their leaders - ever heard of 'refuseniks': they're Israelis I can respect.
I wish the Palestinians military victory over Israel - does that sound better?jord wrote:
There is a world of differance between wishing someone luck and wishing someone dead so you can dance on their graves.CameronPoe wrote:
ftr - I don't have a problem with Israel acting, they have to. Doesn't mean I have to wish em luck. And from what I saw they're as complicit as their leaders - ever heard of 'refuseniks': they're Israelis I can respect.
And no I don't support Hamas, I mean ultimate eventual military victory. If I was a non-Hamas man of military age in Gaza you'd better believe I'd be looking to stick a bullet in the Israeli army upon an incursion of my territory and collective punishment 'precision' carpet bombing of my town.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-01-04 16:34:29)
FEOS wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
I certainly will be wholeheartedly cheering the death of each and every single IDF soldier soon to be announced.
Source:The legend, lest it be a true story, tells of how the late mathematician, Professor Haim Hanani, asked his students at the Technion to draw up a plan for constructing a pipe to transport blood from Haifa to Eilat. The obedient students did as they were told. Using logarithmic rulers, they sketched the design for a sophisticated pipeline. They meticulously planned its route, taking into account the landscape's topography, the possibility of corrosion, the pipe's diameter and the flow calibration. When they presented their final product, the professor rendered his judgment: You failed. None of you asked why we need such a pipe, whose blood will fill it, and why it is flowing in the first place.
Regardless of whether this story is legend or true, Israel is now failing its own blood pipeline test. As Israel has been preoccupied with Gaza throughout the entire week, nobody has asked whose blood is being spilled and why. Everything is permitted, legitimate and just. The moral voice of restraint, if it ever existed, has been left behind. Even if Israel wiped Gaza off the face of the earth, killing tens of thousands in the process, as a Chechnyan laborer working in Sderot proposed to me, one can assume that there would be no protest.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052348.html
Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-04 16:34:33)
That's cute.mafia996630 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
I certainly will be wholeheartedly cheering the death of each and every single IDF soldier soon to be announced.Source:The legend, lest it be a true story, tells of how the late mathematician, Professor Haim Hanani, asked his students at the Technion to draw up a plan for constructing a pipe to transport blood from Haifa to Eilat. The obedient students did as they were told. Using logarithmic rulers, they sketched the design for a sophisticated pipeline. They meticulously planned its route, taking into account the landscape's topography, the possibility of corrosion, the pipe's diameter and the flow calibration. When they presented their final product, the professor rendered his judgment: You failed. None of you asked why we need such a pipe, whose blood will fill it, and why it is flowing in the first place.
Regardless of whether this story is legend or true, Israel is now failing its own blood pipeline test. As Israel has been preoccupied with Gaza throughout the entire week, nobody has asked whose blood is being spilled and why. Everything is permitted, legitimate and just. The moral voice of restraint, if it ever existed, has been left behind. Even if Israel wiped Gaza off the face of the earth, killing tens of thousands in the process, as a Chechnyan laborer working in Sderot proposed to me, one can assume that there would be no protest.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052348.html
And totally irrelevant.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Cam can say what he fucking likes.....just like these infamous slutbags sending their well wishes.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
I thought it was showing how soldiers should ask questions instead of blindly following orders.FEOS wrote:
That's cute.mafia996630 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Source:The legend, lest it be a true story, tells of how the late mathematician, Professor Haim Hanani, asked his students at the Technion to draw up a plan for constructing a pipe to transport blood from Haifa to Eilat. The obedient students did as they were told. Using logarithmic rulers, they sketched the design for a sophisticated pipeline. They meticulously planned its route, taking into account the landscape's topography, the possibility of corrosion, the pipe's diameter and the flow calibration. When they presented their final product, the professor rendered his judgment: You failed. None of you asked why we need such a pipe, whose blood will fill it, and why it is flowing in the first place.
Regardless of whether this story is legend or true, Israel is now failing its own blood pipeline test. As Israel has been preoccupied with Gaza throughout the entire week, nobody has asked whose blood is being spilled and why. Everything is permitted, legitimate and just. The moral voice of restraint, if it ever existed, has been left behind. Even if Israel wiped Gaza off the face of the earth, killing tens of thousands in the process, as a Chechnyan laborer working in Sderot proposed to me, one can assume that there would be no protest.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052348.html
And totally irrelevant.
EDIt: Still think its irrelevant ?
Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-04 16:37:25)
I'd like to think I'd go after the politicians, rather than take out 3, 18 year old conscripts with no political clout what so ever and then get shot...CameronPoe wrote:
I wish the Palestinians military victory over Israel - does that sound better?jord wrote:
There is a world of differance between wishing someone luck and wishing someone dead so you can dance on their graves.CameronPoe wrote:
ftr - I don't have a problem with Israel acting, they have to. Doesn't mean I have to wish em luck. And from what I saw they're as complicit as their leaders - ever heard of 'refuseniks': they're Israelis I can respect.
And no I don't support Hamas, I mean ultimate eventual military victory. If I was a non-Hamas man of military age in Gaza you'd better believe I'd be looking to stick a bullet in the Israeli army upon an incursion of my territory and collective punishment 'precision' carpet bombing of my town.
Has anyone asked themselves: what happens at the end of this operation? Israel tried occupation. It failed. There were several intifadas and civilians on both sides continued to die. Israel can temporarily occupy and then withdraw - what do you think will happen then? Palestinians will resume rocket attacks just like they did last year and just like they have done for many moons. Where is the 'solution' in this entirely military endeavour? At least, fairplay to Israel, they eventually went in for mano a mano - for more respectable - but only after fucking up Gaza City and outlying towns goodo.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-01-04 16:41:16)
Not really, the Israeli moral compass is simply gone, as probably is the Palestinian one, thats the point.FEOS wrote:
That's cute.
And totally irrelevant.
At this point the only real solution is an externally imposed 'peace'.
Much like with children, at a certain point all you can do is lock them in two separate rooms until they have calmed down and grown up a little.
A true story, from my childhood, which my mother regularly recounts to me with great glee.
When I was 6 or 7 I had a good friend who came round to play regularly.
Each time my mother would get out a tin of digestive biscuits and let us each pick one.
Digestives are weak, they chip, crumble, crack, the lettering gets distorted and so on.
One day we found a perfect biscuit in the tin, not a single defect, not even a crumb missing, we argued and argued over who should have it, he saw it first he should have it, its my house I should have it, he's the guest so he should have it, its nearer to my birthday I should have it, its close to Christmas I should give it to him.
We argued for ages, to the point of tears.
In the end my mother broke it in half and gave us each a piece.
If the UN ever needed to do anything it is this.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-04 16:46:35)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Yes, when Israel's enemies accept its existence and abandon violent attempts to destroy it, Israel makes peace agreements with them. Your statement below is wrong:Dilbert_X wrote:
The Egyptians have made peace, the Lebanese have made peace, the Jordanians have made peace, Fatah have negotiated a kind of peace, other Arabian countries have said they are willing to make peace and recognise Israel subject to Israel abiding by international law - Saudi Arabia, Syria etc, Hamas have said repeatedly they are willing to negotiate and potentially recognise Israel.SAN4 wrote:
At what point in time were the Palestinians and other Arabs willing to make peace with Israel? They have never tried anything other than violence.
It does not suit Israel to be at peace, then they can't claim to be the victims any more.
And I forgot the evidence that "Hamas have said repeatedly they are willing to negotiate and potentially recognise Israel." Can you dig out that article from 2005 again please? Of course if you have something more recent, please post a link.Dilbert_X wrote:
The Palestinians are in a no win situation.
If they act moderate the Israelis screw them, and the world doesn't notice.
A soldiers job is to put himself in the firing line for a nation or some goal. If you don't want to be a soldier then you can refuse and serve time or whatever you need to do (a la Muhammed Ali and thousands of Vietnam refuseniks). If those conscripts had any fucking sense they'd refuse on morality grounds - their army is one of the most heavy-handed collective-punishmenttastic armies on the surface of the planet. It's not rocket science. For me to will victory on the Palestinians is by default to wish death upon the army invading and occupying their territory. That is an inescapable fact.jord wrote:
I'd like to think I'd go after the politicians, rather than take out 3, 18 year old conscripts with no political clout what so ever and then get shot...
It's common military strategy for the last 100 years to soften an area with explosive before moving in on foot, so I guess you're criticizing at least 50 military campaigns there, which is fine.CameronPoe wrote:
Has anyone asked themselves: what happens at the end of this operation? Israel tried occupation. It failed. There were several intifadas and civilians on both sides continued to die. Israel can temporarily occupy and then withdraw - what do you think will happen then? Palestinians will resume rocket attacks just like they did last year and just like they have done for many moons. Where is the 'solution' in this entirely military endeavour? At least, fairplay to Israel, they eventually went in for mano a mano - for more respectable - but only after fucking up Gaza City and outlying towns goodo.
Israel with have their own N.Ireland and I imagine it will play out for many more years, then both will get tired and decide to come to a real solution.
That's my guess.
Yes. Engineers questioning whether something should be built is a completely different situation than soldiers not "blindly following orders". So long as an order is legal, a soldier is required to follow it...period. Nothing the IDF has been ordered to do thus far is illegal, regardless of how you feel about the Palestinian situation.mafia996630 wrote:
I thought it was showing how soldiers should ask questions instead of blindly following orders.FEOS wrote:
That's cute.
And totally irrelevant.
EDIt: Still think its irrelevant ?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Since when is destroying hospitals that serve civilian purposes regarded as legitimate 'softening up'. We EU citizens paid for half of the shit they're currently blowing up with our taxes!!!jord wrote:
It's common military strategy for the last 100 years to soften an area with explosive before moving in on foot, so I guess you're criticizing at least 50 military campaigns there, which is fine.
I am joining the Parachute Regiment soon, that doesn't mean I condone what happened on B sunday and the rest of Op Banner. I don't even want us to be in Iraq right now. I am hardly the infidel imperialist my politicians are alleged to be. The same could be said for 1000's of young Israelis. They don't deserve to die for serving in their countries military, nor should it be wished upon them as if they are scum.CameronPoe wrote:
A soldiers job is to put himself in the firing line for a nation or some goal. If you don't want to be a soldier then you can refuse and serve time or whatever you need to do (a la Muhammed Ali and thousands of Vietnam refuseniks). If those conscripts had any fucking sense they'd refuse on morality grounds - their army is one of the most heavy-handed collective-punishmenttastic armies on the surface of the planet. It's not rocket science. For me to will victory on the Palestinians is by default to wish death upon the army invading and occupying their territory. That is an inescapable fact.jord wrote:
I'd like to think I'd go after the politicians, rather than take out 3, 18 year old conscripts with no political clout what so ever and then get shot...
Last edited by jord (2009-01-04 16:51:10)
That is all very well. I just hope that if you are asked to do something that you find morally repugnant on behalf of your politicians that you ask for a discharge/walk away. Like the Wehrmacht should have under Hitler. The job of an army is for defence, and that's the height of it.jord wrote:
I am joining the Parachute Regiment soon, that doesn't mean I condone what happened on B sunday and the rest of Op Banner. I don't even want us to be in Iraq right now. I am hardly the infidel imperialist my politicians are alleged to be. The same could be said for 1000's of young Israelis. They don't deserve to die for serving in their countries military, nor should it be wished upon them as if they are scum.
And their army ultimately deserves to lose, draw from that what you will.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-01-04 16:55:44)