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2008-12-14 23:55:51
Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6517
I just got linked to this article from the Steam Users Forums.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

***I very highly recommend people (especially PC gamers) read through the whole thing.***

I doubt many (if any) of you will read it in its entirety, but i'm going to try my best to get people to at least try. It took me over 3 hours to read, but i'm now in a state where i feel I have a much better idea of whats going on. It talks about the economics and scale of piracy, compares PCs to consoles, and finally talks about DRM. It's all completely unbiased and tries to be as factual as possible.

I now firmly believe that nobody has any excuse to pirate PC games. It is doing significant damage to the industry, and while MMO's, casual titles and online games are still profitable for companies on the PC, traditional singleplayer games are not, and many companies have been making the move to consoles within the last few years, and they all say its due to piracy. Now I don't want to have to play console ports on my PC. They suck. Console games in general don't stand up to a well made PC exclusive title. However that's the future for these sorts of PC games if people continue pirating games the way they are.

Please read it. It's quite an eye opener. For the record, i've not pirated any PC games that I can think of in recent memory. Back in the day my brother may have given me a cracked copy of something about 5 years ago, but its all in the past. Both I and him now buy all our PC games. To me, being a poor student, this means mot playing the vast majority of what comes out. This year the only 2008 PC games i've played have been my brothers copy of Dead Space, and my copies of Left 4 Dead, Kane's Wrath, and Crysis Warhead. I can't afford more than that. But I don't pirate them. I keep every other game i'm interested in on a list of possibly future purchases.

tl;dr

Don't pirate games. Buy them or just don't play them. More and more developers are crossing over to consoles, and the reason they all give is PC piracy. They know more than you do on the subject so don't blindly say they're wrong. Pirating games is only hurting us all in the long run. Stop it now while there's still time to pull back.
2008-12-15 00:09:06
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6901

While I completely support this author's arguments, and I do believe that pirating is bad... some people will never change their ways. And that's the problem.

I am in your same position. I am a poor student and I can't afford many games. Also, I've been a console gamer for the longest time that the thought of pirating PC games has hardly crossed my mind since I keep forgetting it's possible now.

As far as converting pirates to legitimate customers, like I said before, some people will never change their ways. As such, these people will only have themselves to blame if this prophecy that only crappy console ports will be produced for the PC. I guess there are a lot of legitimate PC gamers who don't want it to come to that, but personally I could care less. I'm a console gamer at heart.
2008-12-15 00:16:23
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6400|what

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

I now firmly believe that nobody has any excuse to pirate PC games.
lol yeah right.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2008-12-15 00:21:22
Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6517

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

I now firmly believe that nobody has any excuse to pirate PC games.
lol yeah right.
You must've missed the part of my post where I said 'Please read it'.

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
2008-12-15 00:27:11
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6400|what

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
No it doesn't. You can't tell me that a PC game is worth $50 US. And until games are marketed at a reasonable price relative to what they offer piracy is going to continue.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2008-12-15 00:33:11
Rosse_modest
Member
+76|7023|Antwerp, Flanders

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
No it doesn't. You can't tell me that a PC game is worth $50 US. And until games are marketed at a reasonable price relative to what they offer piracy is going to continue.
$50 US is a small price to pay for hours and hours of entertainment.
2008-12-15 00:37:46
Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6517
Stop trying to justify it. By not paying for all these games you're playing you're causing more and more developers to switch to console based development. I don't care if you think they're not worth $50. If you think they're not worth that much then don't damned well play them because you have no right to.

If you think all this talk in the article (and I still doubt you're even begun to read it) and by me is all talk, just look at the facts. Big PC games released this year? The vast majority are console ports of varying degrees of quality, mostly fairly low. In the past these would have been PC first, console second. Now that it's the other way around the the quality of the games is suffering. Some games have had no PC version at all, or a hugely delayed PC version simply because developers didn't want to give people an easy-pirated option when the game was released.

I've already said it once but it obviously didn't sink in. Don't try and justify it because you can't. You're causing damage to PC gaming. It's happening already. If half assed console ports are what you want in PC games then fine, pirate away. Just don't complain about the quality of the games in the future if you carry on.
2008-12-15 00:41:02
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6963

Rosse_modest wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
No it doesn't. You can't tell me that a PC game is worth $50 US. And until games are marketed at a reasonable price relative to what they offer piracy is going to continue.
$50 US is a small price to pay for hours and hours of entertainment.
Or a day.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2008-12-15 01:34:33
DefCon-17
Maple Syrup Faggot
+362|6403|Vancouver | Canada
In VALVe we trust.

I've pirated games.
..But to be honest, I've never bothered playing those again, even if I have them burned on DVD. The only games I play repeatedly are the ones I bought.

Or, I kinda use pirated games as demos.
At first I downloaded Company of Heroes, but I own it legitimately now. (For example. Same with BF2.)

So basically, if I pirate a game that I end up liking, I'll buy it.
If I don't like it, I'll stop playing it and won't buy it. They don't deserve my money if I don't like the game.

Last edited by DefCon-17 (2008-12-15 01:35:23)

2008-12-15 01:40:58
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6961|Purplicious Wisconsin
I don't pirate games, and I am lucky to be able to get a damn game at a store with my lifestyle. But you guys could be in a far worse situation than I, so I don't know
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2008-12-15 01:43:47
DefCon-17
Maple Syrup Faggot
+362|6403|Vancouver | Canada

War Man wrote:

I don't pirate games, and I am lucky to be able to get a damn game at a store with my lifestyle. But you guys could be in a far worse situation than I, so I don't know
We live in a VAN down by the RIVER.
2008-12-15 01:45:31
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6961|Purplicious Wisconsin

DefCon-17 wrote:

War Man wrote:

I don't pirate games, and I am lucky to be able to get a damn game at a store with my lifestyle. But you guys could be in a far worse situation than I, so I don't know
We live in a VAN down by the RIVER.
You use a laptop or something?

Edit: for jokes

Last edited by War Man (2008-12-15 01:47:47)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2008-12-15 01:47:43
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6662|Vienna

I agree very much that piracy is bad for business, that its illegal, that its stealing, that torrent sites should be illegal and they are not the same thing as google... And I agree that everyone who is denying it is wrong. But I just dont have the money.
2008-12-15 01:50:42
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6637

You'd still find it very hard to convince me that a DRM that limits a user to 3 installs is a good idea.  I don't mind other DRMs, just the limit ones piss me off eternally.

*Then again, using steam usually prevents this from being a problem.
2008-12-15 02:05:56
Sisco
grandmaster league revivalist
+493|6590

DefCon-17 wrote:

In VALVe we trust.

I've pirated games.
..But to be honest, I've never bothered playing those again, even if I have them burned on DVD. The only games I play repeatedly are the ones I bought.

Or, I kinda use pirated games as demos.
At first I downloaded Company of Heroes, but I own it legitimately now. (For example. Same with BF2.)

So basically, if I pirate a game that I end up liking, I'll buy it.
If I don't like it, I'll stop playing it and won't buy it. They don't deserve my money if I don't like the game.
^this

I played some horrible games over the past years and I´m glad I torrented them and saved my money. Recent example: WaW. Won´t even start on me. Great way to burn fiddy bucks!
https://www.abload.de/img/bf3-bf2ssig0250wvn.jpg
2008-12-15 03:05:04
Jestar
Shifty's Home Number: 02 9662 8432
+373|6988

Read the whole article, was very interesting, especially the parts on the day 0 piracy prevention.
2008-12-15 03:14:33
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6814|NYC / Hamburg

I pirate because I can. It's free, fast and has no risk. If I want to buy a game I have to deal with regional limitations (later release date and then only dubbed versions exist), DRM, spend time actually going to the store to buy one and then nearly spending double what it would cost in the US.

I wish I had some sort of higher purpose but sadly I don't. In the end I usually end up buying the good games anyways for their online content (various C&C, BF series, COD4 (), orange box, ...) .
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
2008-12-15 03:16:24
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7032|Perth, Western Australia

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
No it doesn't. You can't tell me that a PC game is worth $50 US. And until games are marketed at a reasonable price relative to what they offer piracy is going to continue.
This is true, especially in Australia where the comparative price of games is ridiculous. The argument falls down even further when you consider that some games are definately worth the money being asked, whereas some are worth no where near it. Generally new releases are all the same price regardless of quality, and that to me muddies the water. It's like charging the same for a Big Mac as for a meal at an expensive restaurant.

That said, I've always told my friends when we've discussed this that pirated games always seem to hold a diminished... imperative to play for me. I don't feel obliged because I've spent no money. Looking at my xfire list of about 60 odd games the highest ranking one that I've downloaded comes in at 21st.

In honesty a lot of it comes down to PURE greed, people who want to game but pay absolutely nothing for it. But there is an underlying motive that games are too expensive generally that underlies the downloading in my opinion. A hint of civil disobedience if you will.
2008-12-15 03:25:18
Fenris_GreyClaw
Real Хорошо
+826|6766|Adelaide, South Australia

DefCon-17 wrote:

I've pirated games.
..But to be honest, I've never bothered playing those again, even if I have them burned on DVD. The only games I play repeatedly are the ones I bought.

Or, I kinda use pirated games as demos.
At first I downloaded Company of Heroes, but I own it legitimately now. (For example. Same with BF2.)

So basically, if I pirate a game that I end up liking, I'll buy it.
If I don't like it, I'll stop playing it and won't buy it. They don't deserve my money if I don't like the game.
Same goes for me.
2008-12-15 03:54:03
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7090|Reykjavík, Iceland.
If they would improve the quality of games, I bet a lot of people would purchase it instead of pirating it. It seems that too many games today are simply a short single player campaign and a shitty multiplayer with no replay value.

If more games had great multiplayer like Battlefield series, people would be encouraged to buy those games.

Games I've bought that I utterly wish I hadn't:
ET:QW
Spore
Far Cry 2
Bioshock

That's €300 wasted
2008-12-15 03:57:51
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

Rosse_modest wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

Any excuses given by people who pirate games are just them trying to justify it. There's nothing to justify. It's wrong. It's damaging. It'll come back to haunt them in the future. End of story.
No it doesn't. You can't tell me that a PC game is worth $50 US. And until games are marketed at a reasonable price relative to what they offer piracy is going to continue.
$50 US is a small price to pay for hours and hours of entertainment.
Therein lies the rub. Depending on the game, sometimes it's $50USD for thirty wholesome minutes of entertainment and/or frustration. Hence, piracy!

https://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:DGhSvE0Zl7yFcM:https://tcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/pirate_01.jpg

Gamers have been dealing with trash since long before 'the don't copy that floppy' waddled onstage like a gonorrheaic hippo. Imagine, $14 for a disk, and it turns out to be the demo? Gee...way to crush childhood dreams, sweetie! The industry was their worst enemy.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-12-15 04:00:09)

2008-12-15 04:03:35
Brasso
member
+1,549|6877

DefCon-17 wrote:

The only games I play repeatedly are the ones I bought.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
2008-12-15 04:14:43
baggs
Member
+732|6451
The problem with PC is format is there is no value in a game once its been installed, so with the console market, where you can't pirate you can at least buy a game, not like it and trade it and recover some of that expenditure.

The PC format just makes us buy a game based on the hype and then we're stuck with the game when we realise how fucking shit it is. If there was some way the PC format had some re-sale value OR the price of the software was more reasonable in the first place then the issues of piracy might not be so apparent.

It does make me kinda sick when i look at shelf and the games i bought which promised so much but fell short and it does amount to a fair chunk of cash. But whereas i had some value in my old gamecube and game, my old psp etc.....i can only get fuck all for the PC software sat on my shelf who's next phase is the bin.

Either way, i don't use pirated games.

Last edited by baggs (2008-12-15 04:16:00)

2008-12-15 04:25:35
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

There are rare cases of budget-title developers issuing a satisfaction guarantee with their PC games. Oddly enough, I've enjoyed them all and have never had to use one. But I can't count how many $50-bombs roost on my shelves like zombified pigeons waiting to puke their revolting contents into my face on a moment's notice. And you can't trade them back for another game like you used to be able to, because you might have written down the CD-key.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-12-15 04:26:42)

2008-12-15 04:27:16
TheEternalPessimist
Wibble
+412|6867|Mhz

I know I'm in a minority but, I do buy the games I download if they're any good, take Fallout 3, I DLd that first and liked it so much I went and ordered the game 2 days after getting it, even though I'd pretty much finished the game once through already, that game has re-play value and justifies it's price, I've downloaded games that are ok but not worth the money so I just get rid of them or wait til they come down in price and buy them later, crap games I just delete and carry on with the good games.

The only game I've never DLd and just gone out and bought is Spore, and what a fucking mistake that was, biggest disappointment of my gaming life, total waste of money so I'll never do that again, people argue that demo's are for the purpose of testing but tbh they're quite often not exactly like the full game and as such unreliable, they also don't give you an idea of how the game plays out in the long term, I can be left wanting more from a 20 min demo only to go buy it and be bored shitless after 2 hours.

Sadly 99.9% of downloaders wont buy games if they already have them for free, I make a point of buying good games, and ditching the shit ones, it's my little vote for quality games, otherwise the shit publishers have a chance at making money from utter crap, while I'd be much happier if they went bankrupt and allowed quality games developers to thrive.

 

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