BF2S Forums What's wrong with being rich?

I used to be a 7, but I'm basically becoming a 5 after buying my house.

4 as in I have no debts, but that's because I don't really own anything of value either. The money I make barely takes care of my basic needs, but that little extra that makes you happy some times is scarce. Plus, the way things are going around here, not only will I not see a raise any time soon, but the money I make will seem less and less what with all the prices going up.

Anyway: what's wrong with being rich? Well... the problem lies with the fact that capitalism creates inequality. Only few people succeed, thus making disproportionate amounts of money. On the other hand, more and more people are forced to live with less.

On a personal level, I see nothing wrong with being rich, it is after all everyone's dream to live comfortably and without worries. I try not to judge people based on their wealth. But that does not include the super-rich and those whose only goal in life is money. But even then there are differences between people. Bill Gates for example: he made a business, it was uber-successful, he made a ton of money. But I have nothing against him, no matter how much money he has. On the other hand, you have people like Vardinoyannis (Greek shipping industry bastard) who made money by breaking embargos and selling weapons wherever there was a war going on. Now fuckers like him, I wish dead.

oug wrote:

4 as in I have no debts, but that's because I don't really own anything of value either. The money I make barely takes care of my basic needs, but that little extra that makes you happy some times is scarce. Plus, the way things are going around here, not only will I not see a raise any time soon, but the money I make will seem less and less what with all the prices going up.

Anyway: what's wrong with being rich? Well... the problem lies with the fact that capitalism creates inequality. Only few people succeed, thus making disproportionate amounts of money. On the other hand, more and more people are forced to live with less.

On a personal level, I see nothing wrong with being rich, it is after all everyone's dream to live comfortably and without worries. I try not to judge people based on their wealth. But that does not include the super-rich and those whose only goal in life is money. But even then there are differences between people. Bill Gates for example: he made a business, it was uber-successful, he made a ton of money. But I have nothing against him, no matter how much money he has. On the other hand, you have people like Vardinoyannis (Greek shipping industry bastard) who made money by breaking embargos and selling weapons wherever there was a war going on. Now fuckers like him, I wish dead.

I think you nailed it when you said capitalism creates inequality. That's exactly what it does, destroys the middle class. I'd like to hear where more people are on this scale, a poll would have been nice.

d4rkst4r wrote:

oug wrote:

4 as in I have no debts, but that's because I don't really own anything of value either. The money I make barely takes care of my basic needs, but that little extra that makes you happy some times is scarce. Plus, the way things are going around here, not only will I not see a raise any time soon, but the money I make will seem less and less what with all the prices going up.

Anyway: what's wrong with being rich? Well... the problem lies with the fact that capitalism creates inequality. Only few people succeed, thus making disproportionate amounts of money. On the other hand, more and more people are forced to live with less.

On a personal level, I see nothing wrong with being rich, it is after all everyone's dream to live comfortably and without worries. I try not to judge people based on their wealth. But that does not include the super-rich and those whose only goal in life is money. But even then there are differences between people. Bill Gates for example: he made a business, it was uber-successful, he made a ton of money. But I have nothing against him, no matter how much money he has. On the other hand, you have people like Vardinoyannis (Greek shipping industry bastard) who made money by breaking embargos and selling weapons wherever there was a war going on. Now fuckers like him, I wish dead.

I think you nailed it when you said capitalism creates inequality. That's exactly what it does, destroys the middle class. I'd like to hear where more people are on this scale, a poll would have been nice.

Okay, welcome to the real world.  EVERYTHING creates inequality.  "All men were created equal" does not mean they STAY equal.  It simply means (okay, means to me, at least) that no one is inherently superior to anyone else.  As in, no aristocratic class simply by birth, and no serf class, born with no hope of ever being more.

To think that we are all truly equal in all things is delusion.  You might as well say that people exercising or working out creates inequality because they are stronger.  Practice creates inequality because they are more skilled than you.  If you carry it far enough, having a better computer or faster internet speed creates inequality because some will have an atvantage in computer games. 

The very concept that "everyone is equal" is the very basis for classical communism.  Granted, it never works, because just like in "Animal Farm,"  the caveat will always be added, "..but some are more equal than others."  Just look at what happenned in the USSR between the 'normal' comrade and those who were actual Party menbers.

Congrats, capitalism creates inequality.  Something always will.  But is it not good to be rewarded for hard work?  To pull from a fable, should the Grasshopper and the Ant be considered equals?  Who did all the work gathering food?  Are they both equally entitled to the food, when only one of them put forth any effort to obtain it?

9

Although I reckon I'm a 6, I can justify expenditures such as this



Because I have a bit of disposable income and I like to treat myself every so often.

4 to 5

But, I have no problem with people being rich. Well, I'd like to see them doing some good with their riches, but that comes down to personal choice...

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-10-23 12:46:17)

It isn't where you're at - it is how you got there that matters. Our system is flawed and corrupt; and getting more so as of late. It is not in-place; existing; for the benefit of a minority; those who have legal access to the exploitation of it; and/or influence of it.

_________

imortal wrote:

Who did all the work gathering food?

Probably not you.

Who made my motorcycle - not me.
Who made your car - not you.
Who built my house - many hands but not my own.
Who delivered the food to market - not me; probably not you.
Who designed your GFX card in your computer; who assembled it; who inspected it; not me or you.
Who dug-out the raw minerals from the earth that is now in hundreds of thousands of steel columns in counteless buildings you've been in; not me or you.

Who are the many hands doing almost everything for you and I? And, yet are often paid the least, because someone else owns the rights to their work, work product or associated materials. Inequality is not a system whereby the best out perform others in a free market. There is no such thing as a free market - period. Get that hypothetical out of your head - it doesn't exist in the real world you’re thinking/talking of. Cronyism in networks, protectionism, corporate lobbying, corruption, outright criminal activity, legalized wealth transfer-systems, globalization, market manipulation/speculation, soft & lax laws for corporation crimes committed, socio-economic stratification, bypassing regulations and standards by moving overseas, governmental intervention in the market, etc. - these are all at play in the market. Free market implies fair trade - but there is often nothing free or fair about it.

Inequality isn't a hypothetical. The synaptic-connections in your brain can be a physical manifestation of environmental influences. Diet & exposure to learning - can change a person physically; body and physical-mind. And, that inequality extends to the socio-economic realm, and you know it. It is a statistical truth - that you are likely to not transcend what rung of the economic-ladder you started on; or if you do not by much. You may make more, not much more, or the same, or maybe even less than your parents. Few become rich. And, for the poor - they often remain poor. Being poor can mean: being denied access to quality teachers, books themselves, healthcare, quality healthy food, not being exposed to a network of people that could have lifted you out of poverty; and so on. If you understand that the most important reason a Christian is Christian is because of proximity (proximity to the religion in your country, your parents). You’ll also understand why proximity determines who is Muslim, Hindu - and who is poor. You are near it - and you are born into it.

To know some are often hobbled from the get go - in a race - is to understand the true nature of systemic inequality.

We can't all be administrators; paper pushers; or buy into the nonsense that “money works for you” money does not ever do work. Only people and the machines people make - do work. “Money working” or “interest earned” or GNP (which is dependent upon monetary expansion; thus currency debasement) means wealth is subtly being transferred from someone somewhere to another person someplace else.

_________
Oops forgot to do the scale thing.
A former 9. Last year about 7-8; this year on the verge of 2.5 to 3. Eh, hard come - easy go.

Last edited by topal63 (2008-10-23 13:49:33)

topal63 wrote:

It isn't where you're at - it is how you got there that matters. Our system is flawed and corrupt; and getting more so as of late. It is not in-place; existing; for the benefit of a minority; those who have legal access to the exploitation of it; and/or influence of it.

_________

imortal wrote:

Who did all the work gathering food?

Probably not you.

Who made my motorcycle - not me.
Who made your car - not you.
Who built my house - many hands but not my own.
Who delivered the food to market - not me; probably not you.
Who designed your GFX card in your computer; who assembled it; who inspected it; not me or you.
Who dug-out the raw minerals from the earth that is now in hundreds of thousands of steel columns in counteless buildings you've been in; not me or you.

Who are the many hands doing almost everything for you and I? And, yet are often paid the least, because someone else owns the rights to their work, work product or associated materials. Inequality is not a system whereby the best out perform others in a free market. There is no such thing as a free market - period. Get that hypothetical out of your head - it doesn't exist in the real world you’re thinking/talking of. Cronyism in networks, protectionism, corporate lobbying, corruption, outright criminal activity, legalized wealth transfer-systems, globalization, market manipulation/speculation, soft & lax laws for corporation crimes committed, socio-economic stratification, bypassing regulations and standards by moving overseas, governmental intervention in the market, etc. - these are all at play in the market. Free market implies fair trade - but there is often nothing free or fair about it.

Inequality isn't a hypothetical. The synaptic-connections in your brain can be a physical manifestation of environmental influences. Diet & exposure to learning - can change a person physically; body and physical-mind. And, that inequality extends to the socio-economic realm, and you know it. It is a statistical truth - that you are likely to not transcend what rung of the economic-ladder you started on; or if you do not by much. You may make more, not much more, or the same, or maybe even less than your parents. Few become rich. And, for the poor - they often remain poor. Being poor can mean: being denied access to quality teachers, books themselves, healthcare, quality healthy food, not being exposed to a network of people that could have lifted you out of poverty; and so on. If you understand that the most important reason a Christian is Christian is because of proximity (proximity to the religion in your country, your parents). You’ll also understand why proximity determines who is Muslim, Hindu - and who is poor. You are near it - and you are born into it.

To know some are often hobbled from the get go - in a race - is to understand the true nature of systemic inequality.

We can't all be administrators; paper pushers; or buy into the nonsense that “money works for you” money does not ever do work. Only people and the machines people make - do work. “Money working” or “interest earned” or GNP (which is dependent upon monetary expansion; thus currency debasement) means wealth is subtly being transferred from someone somewhere to another person someplace else.

_________
Oops forgot to do the scale thing.
A former 9. Last year about 7-8; this year on the verge of 2.5 to 3. Eh, hard come - easy go.

So, for the miner, it's -

imortal wrote:

Who made my motorcycle - not me.
Who made your car - not you.
Who built my house - many hands but not my own.
Who delivered the food to market - not me; probably not you.
Who designed your GFX card in your computer; who assembled it; who inspected it; not me or you.
Who dug-out the raw minerals from the earth that is now in hundreds of thousands of steel columns in counteless buildings you've been in; not me or you.

.. and for the auto worker, it's -

imortal wrote:

Who made my motorcycle - not me.
Who made your car - not you.
Who built my house - many hands but not my own.
Who delivered the food to market - not me; probably not you.
Who designed your GFX card in your computer; who assembled it; who inspected it; not me or you.
Who dug-out the raw minerals from the earth that is now in hundreds of thousands of steel columns in counteless buildings you've been in; not me or you.

.. and for the trucker, it's -

imortal wrote:

Who made my motorcycle - not me.
Who made your car - not you.
Who built my house - many hands but not my own.
Who delivered the food to market - not me; probably not you.
Who designed your GFX card in your computer; who assembled it; who inspected it; not me or you.
Who dug-out the raw minerals from the earth that is now in hundreds of thousands of steel columns in counteless buildings you've been in; not me or you.

We're all dependent on others, and others are dependent upon us. Working with the most basic commodities does not make you as an individual more important than anyone else, and doing low or unskilled labour pays accordingly, regardless of whether you're a carpenter or a receptionist. It's not an inequality, it's a simple question of whether or not your skills are in high demand, and whether or not someone else is willing and able to do the work for less than you are. That's why manual labour isn't comparatively lucrative.

7 now, raised in the 2-3 range.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with being rich.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-10-23 14:27:52)

I am embarassed that i make money cause i work my ass off... where can i send my extra money so i can feel good about myself...lol

and this made me laugh...
"Theres nothing wrong with being rich unless you're causing others to be poor by doing so. Like the feudal system.
Oh, and capitalism."

Being rich causes other people to be poor... i did not know that....lmao...

topal63 wrote:

Pug wrote:

Pug wrote:

Explain.

Nevermind.  I re-read your post.

I thought I was going to be asked to write a book...

I mean how I am supposed to respond the mikkel's post? If he simply doesn't value "work" or production itself; and thinks it equates to non-killed; unneeded; not in-demand jobs; etc.

Well, perhaps it would help you to respond to my post if you read it again and realised that I never stated that I do not value "work", as you call it, that I never said anything about basic production jobs being unneeded or not in demand. Try from that point of view, and perhaps you'll come up with something other than a more verbose recital of the post I replied to.