By hypothetical I just meant not a specific person. I don't doubt that plenty exist. I can also fully understand military men judging each other by their level of service (or lack thereof), that's entirely understandable... a non-military equivalent would be a college lecturer preaching from on high about how to do things 'the right way' in an industry or profession when they themself are not good enough to cut it in said industry and have chosen to hide in the lecture halls of a university.deeznutz1245 wrote:
The POGUE in discussion is not hypothetical Brad, there is one in every town trust me. And as far as not being a real man if you havent seen combat, it is just a way for those who served to one up eachother thats all. It's a frat thing.Braddock wrote:
I actually thought this part was full of shit because it had little or nothing to do with the topic in hand; it's just a rant about a hypothetical pogue disgracing the good name of the army etc. etc. It also seemed to me to smack of the common mentality of many military men that if you haven't seen armed conflict you are not a "real man", which I think is macho bullshit... however I do acknowledge that subsequent to this post you did clarify that you do not believe killing to be a prerequisite for heroism.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Going through boot camp only to put on a skirt afterwards by becoming a POGUE, and then telling people back home you are in Special Forces and fabricating stories of how you kill people when you realy didn't. As a result you succesfully put shame to anyone who wears the uniform and sacrifice hundreds of years of tradition for the opportunity to become a bar star not realizing there is most likely a real hero lurking at a pool table silently listening to your bullshit as you further confirm and solidify the real mans status as a true hero.
By Deez's logic McCock was captured and therefore is a failure too? Why are you voting for a failure?!
Vote for a winnar! Obama 08'
He's the president of hittin that ass you knows.
Vote for a winnar! Obama 08'
He's the president of hittin that ass you knows.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
He's just making a sideways reference to a comment I have made on several occasions in the past...m3thod wrote:
By Deez's logic McCock was captured and therefore is a failure too? Why are you voting for a failure?!
Vote for a winnar! Obama 08'
He's the president of hittin that ass you knows.
Basically, being captured or injured, in and of itself, is not sufficient grounds upon which to be considered a hero in my opinion. They may be secondary details in your act of of heroism but they themselves do not constitute the heroism. For example a fireman enters a burning house, makes his way upstairs to the kids bedroom and carries two young children out to safety only to be knocked out by a falling ceiling beam just prior to his own exit thus dying in the flames of the fire. Now in my book the man is a hero for entering the burning house and getting those kids out alive, he is not a hero because he himself died while doing so... that's not heroism, that's just a terrible shame. I'd much rather heroes could stay alive.
...The military has a cynical tendency to dress up death in combat as 'heroism' and, while in many cases the people who die in combat are in fact heroes in some capacity, the military primarily does this in order to make a victory out of a tragedy... it's actually the same mentality seen in extremist groups who glorify suicide bombings, though not as extreme. I also find it interesting that many people consider John McCain and his military record to be sacrosanct while John Kerry (recipient of three purple hearts, a bronze star and a silver star) is fair game to have his name and record dragged through the mud.
not gonna lie, i agree with you.Braddock wrote:
..The military has a cynical tendency to dress up death in combat as 'heroism' and, while in many cases the people who die in combat are in fact heroes in some capacity, the military primarily does this in order to make a victory out of a tragedy... it's actually the same mentality seen in extremist groups who glorify suicide bombings, though not as extreme. I also find it interesting that many people consider John McCain and his military record to be sacrosanct while John Kerry (recipient of three purple hearts, a bronze star and a silver star) is fair game to have his name and record dragged through the mud.
it seems that lately in america, every soldier wearing a uniform gets hero status automatically. I mean, i respect what they are doing very much, but i dont think that status should just be thrown around with so little thought.
kinda reminds me of firemen after sept. 11 *not saying many dont deserve it, just that the job itself doesnt make someone a hero, its the actions taken while in that position*
Its really a kind of desensitization
oh, in regards to the MCcain and Kerry reference. Perhaps Kerry's record got scrutinized because he came back and spoke out against the war *bitching, if you will*, whereas McCain became an instructor and continued serving.
Last edited by Schwarzelungen (2008-10-23 13:50:15)
Kerry threw his medals in a protest, he was actively involved in anti-war groups that we very radical, i.e. passing info to the North Vietnamese and calling and taunting families that had sons killed.