Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire
A hypothetical scenario for you lowing...

A young American called Bob with a small business and a loving wife and family goes off to Iraq to serve with his National Guard unit on a year long deployment. While he's there he sees some incredibly depressing and soul destroying shit, meanwhile his business back home begins to falter because his wife can't balance her own work with the needs of the business and the needs of the family. Trouble begins to brew in Bob's relationship with his wife as a result of the stress and things only get worse as the weeks and months tick by. The bills keep coming at home as Bob's family's economic situation worsens, then one day towards the end of his tour while out on a patrol he gets caught in a roadside bombing and loses his right arm.

On his return home Bob finds a business that has all but disappeared down the toilet; plagued by nightmares and with a head full of violence and nihilism Bob's wife begins to feel she no longer knows the man she married. As the business folds and his depression continues to get worse Bob and his wife decide to part ways, the judge awarding custody of the kids to Bob's wife because of a psychiatrist's report suggesting that Bob may have signs of post traumatic stress disorder. Now living on his own and with no proper source of income Bob tries to overcome his depression and look for work that can be done by a man with only one arm, the weeks tick by with no signs of success...there isn't as much work going these days because of the economic downturn. Then one day Bob's landlord serves him with an eviction notice, Bob has to pack his bags. Fast forward a few months and Bob is not looking too good, he looks just like any other homeless person except minus one arm.

Then one day while sitting on the kerb outside a busy grocery store looking for any change that passers-by might be able to spare Bob meets a guy called lowing who throws him a look of disgust...lowing then goes home and posts two threads on a forum, one about the war on terror and how brave Americans are fighting Islamic extremism in the name of freedom and democracy and another complaining about the mentality of bleeding heart liberals who want homeless people to have the right to vote for a President who might better their situation.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-08-20 14:10:31)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6810|Nårvei

Braddock wrote:

A hypothetical scenario for you lowing...

bla bla bla bla etc etc
That is what lowing sees reading your post, throwing a hypothetical scenario to lowing is like saying the bible is pure fiction to a christian ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
bob's wife was probably fucking somebody else while he was deployed anyway.
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6453|Ontario, Canada
Lowing just doesn't understand some people are not born into this world with the same advantages as you. Yes thats right people, lowing expected everyone else in society to be left a huge fortune just like he was. Just because some people are having trouble financially doesn't mean we should just let them roll over and die. If I were homeless I too would vote for someone who would be willing to hand out money to homeless people. I'm not sure how you became so possessed in such a selfish idiotic way but maybe some time homeless would do you some good.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6736|Salt Lake City

C'mon Lowing, support the fucking troops!!

http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm

Who are homeless veterans?

The U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says the nation's homeless veterans are mostly males (4 % are females). The vast majority are single, most come from poor, disadvantaged communities, 45% suffer from mental illness, and half have substance abuse problems. America’s homeless veterans have served in World War II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam War, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan), Operation Iraqi Freedom, or the military’s anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. Forty-seven percent of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam Era. More than 67% served our country for at least three years and 33% were stationed in a war zone.

How many homeless veterans are there?

Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by -- no one keeps national records on homeless veterans -- the VA estimates that nearly 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night. And nearly 400,000 experience homelessness over the course of a year. Conservatively, one out of every three homeless men who is sleeping in a doorway, alley or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served this country. According to the National Survey of Homeless Assistance Providers and Clients (U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness and the Urban Institute, 1999), veterans account for 23% of all homeless people in America. 

Why are veterans homeless?

In addition to the complex set of factors affecting all homelessness -- extreme shortage of affordable housing, livable income, and access to health care -- a large number of displaced and at-risk veterans live with lingering effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and substance abuse, compounded by a lack of family and social support networks.

A top priority is secure, safe, clean housing that offers a supportive environment which is free of drugs and alcohol.

While "most homeless people are single, unaffiliated men … most housing money in existing federal homelessness programs, in contrast, is devoted to helping homeless families or homeless women with dependant children," according to "Is Homelessness a Housing Problem?" in Understanding Homelessness: New Policy and Research Perspectives, published by Fannie Mae Foundation in 1997.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6621|London, England
Bob shouldn't have gone off to play War if he already has a business and a family that needs him at home
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
well you cant really predict the kind of shit you face with 8 years of enlisted service.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire

God Save the Queen wrote:

bob's wife was probably fucking somebody else while he was deployed anyway.
I was going to throw that in! Poor Bob, he's probably better off without that cunt!
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
damn skippy
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6500|so randum
Awww i can't wait to see lowings response to bob
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Bob shouldn't have gone off to play War if he already has a business and a family that needs him at home
From what I've heard there are loads of reservists in this situation. My hypothetical scenario is just a nightmare extrapolation of a small story I saw on US news a while back about a reservist who broke up with his wife as a result of the stresses of the family business going under while he was overseas in Iraq. The point of the news piece was that there was nowhere near enough support for reservists in his kind of situation. Many reservists are probably just glorified weekend warriors who just want to do a little bit of service for their country and don't expect to be deployed to war zones overseas. It is a further argument against the policy of wading into wars of choice all over the world.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
Bob's still gonna get a check from the government.  He'll be entitled to Education benfits, social security, medical benefits from his injury, medical service from the VA.  Its on the individual.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-08-20 07:24:02)

God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london

Braddock wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Bob shouldn't have gone off to play War if he already has a business and a family that needs him at home
From what I've heard there are loads of reservists in this situation. My hypothetical scenario is just a nightmare extrapolation of a small story I saw on US news a while back about a reservist who broke up with his wife as a result of the stresses of the family business going under while he was overseas in Iraq. The point of the news piece was that there was nowhere near enough support for reservists in his kind of situation. Many reservists are probably just glorified weekend warriors who just want to do a little bit of service for their country and don't expect to be deployed to war zones overseas. It is a further argument against the policy of wading into wars of choice all over the world.
the reserves and national guard are being used in a way that was never intended.  instead of being a strategic military element, they serve as a vital operational one in the current war.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-08-20 07:25:55)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire

God Save the Queen wrote:

Bob's still gonna get a check from the government.  He'll be entitled to Education benfits, social security, medical benefits from his injury, medical service from the VA.  Its on the individual.
The important factor in Bob's scenario would be whether or not he can tackle the depression of a lost limb, a wife who has left him and the loss of custody of the kids. Some would weather that storm and succeed and others would crumble but either way I don't think anyone who had been through anything like that deserves someone looking down their nose at them in judgmental disgust.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
a friend of mine accidentally killed 4 iraqi civilians and he supposedly lost it soon after to the point where he was sent home and today claims 100% medical disability.  Only thing though is that before we were even in Iraq, he was talking about how he hates it, how he misses his wife, how he is going to fake going crazy as soon as he gets a chance.  Well, when that incident happened he started acting bonkers.  He spent 6 hours in the shower just letting cold water soak him.  His weapon was taken away.  He was sent to germany for a few months, then walter reed, then back to texas until he recieved his medical discharge and went back home to orange county, california.  He now collects nearly 3 thousand a month from medical and a further 1200 for his ed benefits.   


the point Im making is everybody (including me) thought he was full of shit. Although he was technically responsible for the deaths of innocent iraqis, it really wasnt his fault.  He never even saw the bodies.  I remember him telling me in kuwait how he was going "to bounce the invisible basketball everywhere he went" to make it look like he was crazy at the first chance he would get.  He occasionally comes down to my house for a day.  He's even thinking about going back in the service.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6835|Kubra, Damn it!

Why is this even a debate? Homeless American citizens are still American citizens and have every right to vote for whoever they want. If they want to vote for whoever gives them the biggest handout, then that's their fucking right. Just like it's your right to vote for whatever selfish desires you have. Hopefully some homeless people will vote for who they believe is best for the job, or for the greater good, but we don't even have all the hard-working taxpayers do that. I doubt seriously there are many people at all who vote unselfishly.

Back to my point, how can anyone in good conscience, especially conservatives who claim to want a strict interpretation of the constitution, try to deny someone else the right to vote? Boohoo, you don't like the way they're going to vote. Enjoy your dinner of hypocrisy and polish it off with a nice slice of cry-me-a-river. Part of enjoying freedom is defending the right of people to make choices you don't like.



p.s. Maybe we wouldn't have so many homeless veterans if the Republicans would stop cutting all their funding. My dad's been struggling with the VA for years trying to get care for the health problems he has from massive exposure to Agent Orange. He has to schedule doctor's appointments weeks, sometimes months, in advance. We need to make sure our veterans of Iraq and Afganistan are getting any proper medical and psychological treat that they may require. It's the least we can do for them.

Last edited by chittydog (2008-08-20 07:54:10)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire

God Save the Queen wrote:

a friend of mine accidentally killed 4 iraqi civilians and he supposedly lost it soon after to the point where he was sent home and today claims 100% medical disability.  Only thing though is that before we were even in Iraq, he was talking about how he hates it, how he misses his wife, how he is going to fake going crazy as soon as he gets a chance.  Well, when that incident happened he started acting bonkers.  He spent 6 hours in the shower just letting cold water soak him.  His weapon was taken away.  He was sent to germany for a few months, then walter reed, then back to texas until he recieved his medical discharge and went back home to orange county, california.  He now collects nearly 3 thousand a month from medical and a further 1200 for his ed benefits.   


the point Im making is everybody (including me) thought he was full of shit. Although he was technically responsible for the deaths of innocent iraqis, it really wasnt his fault.  He never even saw the bodies.  I remember him telling me in kuwait how he was going "to bounce the invisible basketball everywhere he went" to make it look like he was crazy at the first chance he would get.  He occasionally comes down to my house for a day.  He's even thinking about going back in the service.
Not to be disrespectful to your mate or to take the piss but that reminds me of a famous scene in Blackadder where Captain Blackadder pretends to be crazy to get out of going over the top in WW1.

Skip to 4 minutes in...

God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london

Braddock wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

a friend of mine accidentally killed 4 iraqi civilians and he supposedly lost it soon after to the point where he was sent home and today claims 100% medical disability.  Only thing though is that before we were even in Iraq, he was talking about how he hates it, how he misses his wife, how he is going to fake going crazy as soon as he gets a chance.  Well, when that incident happened he started acting bonkers.  He spent 6 hours in the shower just letting cold water soak him.  His weapon was taken away.  He was sent to germany for a few months, then walter reed, then back to texas until he recieved his medical discharge and went back home to orange county, california.  He now collects nearly 3 thousand a month from medical and a further 1200 for his ed benefits.   


the point Im making is everybody (including me) thought he was full of shit. Although he was technically responsible for the deaths of innocent iraqis, it really wasnt his fault.  He never even saw the bodies.  I remember him telling me in kuwait how he was going "to bounce the invisible basketball everywhere he went" to make it look like he was crazy at the first chance he would get.  He occasionally comes down to my house for a day.  He's even thinking about going back in the service.
Not to be disrespectful to your mate or to take the piss but that reminds me of a famous scene in Blackadder where Captain Blackadder pretends to be crazy to get out of going over the top in WW1.

Skip to 4 minutes in...

lol.  thats pretty much how a lot of us felt that this guy was trying to do.  I thought it was funny when he told me he was going to bounce the invisible ball as soon as he got a chance.  Didnt really expect him to go through with it.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6707|67.222.138.85
How dare you lowing, being so ignorant of the ideal goals liberals hold? You only define the success of their plans by how they fiscally effect you and your family, and selfishly abuse your right to the vote by giving it to the party that has only your best interest in mind. Have you thought about the thousands of people that don't make ends meet for themselves? Who can vote for them?

No, you think that just because you have a paying job and support your family that you can only think of yourself. Well I'll have you know that I have quite the decent job for my age, and I pay for most everything in my life. My parents feed, clothe, and provide shelter for me, but I pay for all my fast food and my (hefty) computer related expenses. So think twice before you start calling me a kid, because some others of us also have a pay check and we don't mind sending maybe half the percentage you do off to the government, that's just a part of life. Hell, I wouldn't mind paying the same percentage as you, how much difference does it really make to put off building my new computer for a generation or so?

There is nothing to your American Dream crap. America needs change in any direction, it doesn't particularly matter which one, and Obama is courageous enough to provide us with hope to carry us in that other direction.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6690|Tampa Bay Florida
Another lowing thread lol
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6555

lowing wrote:

If you were homeless, you have more personal issues to worry about like getting off your dead ass and pay your own way instead of watching to see who will be president to pay it for you.
Isn't that impossible? Don't you need some decent clothes to win a job at an interview? Don't you need an address to open a bank account/get paid/find an employer?

Also, isn't the fact that there are enough homeless people to consitute a voting bloc worth vying for a symptom of a political and societal malaise in the US? Nobody likes being homeless - what's wrong with your society that you have so mmany more homeless people than other developed countries?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-08-20 12:58:19)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by -- no one keeps national records on homeless veterans -- the VA estimates that nearly 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night.
That is interesting, it reminds me of how East Germany never used to keep statistics on suicide. Statistics like that don't make for good reading I guess.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-08-20 13:16:05)

Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6542|Texas - Bigger than France
I don't think there's anything wrong with poor people voting.

If I think McCain's better for me I'll vote for him, just like if a poor dude thinks Obama is better for him then he votes for him.

Of course, I'd perfer some real welfare restructuring over extending what's all ready available.  But what do I know, I haven't paid attention to the help-for-the-poor political positioning by the candidates since I think its about bombs, the economy, and the environment this time around.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6500|so randum
still no response to bob?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6542|Texas - Bigger than France

Braddock wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by -- no one keeps national records on homeless veterans -- the VA estimates that nearly 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night.
That is interesting, it reminds me of how East Germany never used to keep statistics on suicide. Statistics like that don't make for good reading I guess.
Wow.  A suicide stat guy.  I can't think of a more depressing job.

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