BF2S Forums Georgia Declares war on Russia

Braddock wrote:

How many men does it take to defend Paris?

I don't know, it's never been done!

why do french tanks have rearview mirrors?

to see what's going on at the front line.

usmarine wrote:

now i understand some of the euros on this board.

it seems while Cam & Co were having a good time making posts and jokes about the US and saudi relationship,and all his little followers lol'ing and qft'ing along the way, it appears the euros have the exact same relationship with russia as the US has with saudis for the exact same reasons.

both russia and saudis do some fucked up things, yet with all have business relationships with them for resources.  interesting.  hypocritical eh cam?

Do you think Russia were the bad guys in this whole incident and that Georgia were the innocent victims?

Braddock wrote:

usmarine wrote:

now i understand some of the euros on this board.

it seems while Cam & Co were having a good time making posts and jokes about the US and saudi relationship,and all his little followers lol'ing and qft'ing along the way, it appears the euros have the exact same relationship with russia as the US has with saudis for the exact same reasons.

both russia and saudis do some fucked up things, yet with all have business relationships with them for resources.  interesting.  hypocritical eh cam?

Do you think Russia were the bad guys in this whole incident and that Georgia were the innocent victims?

I call it one of putin's calculated moves.

He's untouchable in this incident though he's definately not much of a good guy and I doubt he has noble ideas for the future either.

I especially love the russian stance on this looking back to how they dealt with the rebels in Chechnya.

Braddock wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Do you think Russia were the bad guys in this whole incident and that Georgia were the innocent victims?

oh i am not just talking about this incident.  Chechnya and Afghanistan for more recent history of intentional killing of civilians.

Your Saudi Arabia comparison works better in relation to Europe's relationship with the US, we have far closer economic and trade links with ye than the Russians. I've always said that both sides from the cold war were (and still are) as bad as each other in terms of their mischievous shenanigans.

Well I don't really think the US was particulary bad in comparison to Russia really.

Also considering that the countries they touched turned out pretty good after all, while looking at the opposite that Russia made sure that many rather wealthy countries before occupation ended up like shit holes.

not counting all the killings of any sign of opposition.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-08-12 16:28:52)

m3thod wrote:

The day 18 commies ram a 747 into Canary Wharf and we go attack i dunno hungary cos they commies too, you let us know.

wat

dayarath wrote:

Well I don't really think the US was particulary bad in comparison to Russia really.

Both Russia and the US have continually interfered in other nation's affairs, picking sides and arming one group against another, since WW2. Thousands and thousands have died as a result of these wars, they both have a lot of blood on their hands if we're being honest.

dayarath wrote:

Also considering that the countries they touched turned out pretty good after all, while looking at the opposite that Russia made sure that many rather wealthy countries before occupation ended up like shit holes.

You have a very rosy view of the US's role in other nation's histories, one could ask how these nation's might have faired without having to suffer any interference or any of the fatalities resulting from said interference. Also in terms of your view of the former soviet regions, I know a guy who lived in Lithuania and he said pretty much everyone there now misses the Communist era as the country has no natural resources or industries and it was the Soviet regime that brought these things to the region, without Communism they have very little to sustain themselves with.

usmarine wrote:

"A Dutch television journalist was killed overnight when Russian warplanes bombed the central Georgian city of Gori."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812/ap_ … ist_killed

ITN journalist Terry Lloyd killed in Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ju … television

usmarine wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Iraq.

k then

I'm just pointing out the double standards becoming apparent throughout this war.

Braddock wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Well I don't really think the US was particulary bad in comparison to Russia really.

Both Russia and the US have continually interfered in other nation's affairs, picking sides and arming one group against another, since WW2. Thousands and thousands have died as a result of these wars, they both have a lot of blood on their hands if we're being honest.

Settled then.  The US must heavily arm all ally countries near Russia.  Maybe we should give Georgia nukes.....

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-08-12 18:17:37)

Braddock wrote:

I'm no apologist for the Russians so I make no excuses or defences for them, I know how much they are hated amongst their former Soviet Republics (I have a lot of Polish friends!). I am an isolationist and I disagree with what both the Russians AND the US have done over the years. Fair enough the US appear to have been a little more concerned about their global image over the years but I've always found that a bit pretentious.

You make it sound like the US and the SU have done the same amount of bad and good things in the world which I think is not true. I think the US has done more good than bad and vice versa for the SU. And they did that not because the US is inherently good or the SU was inherently bad but because they adopted different strategies to protect their interests. The US mostly tried to promote democracy whereas the SU mostly tried to promote dictatorship. Both policies were borne out of self interest (which is normal for a country), but the US one is more benevolent in general. I realize that the US has backed dictators as well when could not implement democracy trough force but the general aim for the US is to have more democratic states (preferably US-friendly, of course).

Uzique wrote:

freedom and liberty  "democracy"

lulz...bf2s DST punchlines ftw.

Uzique wrote:

Chrisimo wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I'm no apologist for the Russians so I make no excuses or defences for them, I know how much they are hated amongst their former Soviet Republics (I have a lot of Polish friends!). I am an isolationist and I disagree with what both the Russians AND the US have done over the years. Fair enough the US appear to have been a little more concerned about their global image over the years but I've always found that a bit pretentious.

You make it sound like the US and the SU have done the same amount of bad and good things in the world which I think is not true. I think the US has done more good than bad and vice versa for the SU. And they did that not because the US is inherently good or the SU was inherently bad but because they adopted different strategies to protect their interests. The US mostly tried to promote democracy whereas the SU mostly tried to promote dictatorship. Both policies were borne out of self interest (which is normal for a country), but the US one is more benevolent in general. I realize that the US has backed dictators as well when could not implement democracy trough force but the general aim for the US is to have more democratic states (preferably US-friendly, of course).

Actually I believe the general aim for most of the US examples of installing dictators/democracies wasn't the promotion of freedom and liberty but rather the suppression of Communism and the rising of living standards in your back-yard (e.g. Central America and South America). The USA needs these countries to be reliant on the USA's power, they need these countries to effectively by what colonial Africa was for the Europeans; countries that are near the poverty-line with nothing more developed than agriculture and basic manufacturing industry. They're your sweatshops, and throughout 20th century history whenever a regime that has been favoured by its people has been in power with the aim of bringing the lower-working classes out of poverty, America has swept in with dictatorships and "democracy". Many examples of this.

Uzique pretty much captures my view on US 20th century foreign policy with this post. There is nothing particularly benevolent about it, even if it has been less malevolent than Russian foreign policy.

usmarine wrote:

Uzique wrote:

freedom and liberty  "democracy"

lulz...bf2s DST punchlines ftw.

It seems even when I format my posts and italicize the parts with large arrows with 'Look! Satire Included!' labels, you fail to recognise it .

I'm being facetious when I talk about your ideals of 'freedom and liberty', they're models of hypocrisy.

Braddock wrote:

Uzique pretty much captures my view on US 20th century foreign policy with this post. There is nothing particularly benevolent about it, even if it has been less malevolent than Russian foreign policy.

Was the killing of 250,000 Cambodians under covert-bombing campaigns in the late 60's under Nixon (such as Operation Menu) 'less malevolent' than any action Russia has had in Chechnya or Afghanistan? What about the financial aid and CIA training of the Nicuraguan Contra armies, who were fighting to 'topple' a 'regime' that had easily won wholly-democratic elections? El Salvadorean death-squads? It's easy to create a long list... the difference is us here in the 'open media' of the West hear about the atrocities committed by the Soviet's, but for some reason our free press- the upholders of freedom and challengers of government- fail to mention it when our own Western countries drop the ball. I'm sure it creates a very nice illusion that the USA and her Western allies are kindly 'World Police'... but in my opinion as you stated earlier in this thread, both sides of the Cold War are equally malevolent. The USA is no poster-child of decency compared to the Soviet Union in the post-WWII era.

And hey, the big 'ole bear may screw around with a few countries every now and then just to let the world-stage now they're still alive and kickin', but they sure haven't done anything such as purposefully veto'ing every UN-suggested peace resolution to the Middle-East conflict, thus prolonging a long and bloody struggle between states such as Israel/Palestine- at the expense of many civilian lives .

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-13 05:12:44)