Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

https://i34.tinypic.com/2d9dzd0.jpg
Via Hotair.
Forty years ago, two American athletes used the Olympics to stage a political protest, and their actions remain controversial to this very day.  Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists above their head during an awards ceremony, giving the black power salute associated most closely with the Black Panthers, enraging Americans who saw the Olympics (then) as non-political and the pair’s exploitation of the international stage as disloyal to the country they represented.  ESPN gave the pair the Arthur Ashe Courage Award last week, and Jonah Goldberg criticizes the decision in today’s Los Angeles Times:
Last week, ESPN awarded Tommie Smith and John Carlos the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs — the sports network’s equivalent of the Oscars — for their once infamous, and now famous, black power salutes from the winner’s podium at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics.

    The stench of self-congratulation surrounding ESPN’s decision is thicker than the air in a locker room after double overtime. “As the passage of time has given us the opportunity to put their actions into the proper context,” gloats USC professor Todd Boyd in a column on ESPN.com, “their supporters can now feel vindicated while their detractors must eat their words.”

    The argument that Smith’s and Carlos’ critics must dine on their denunciations rests on an inch-deep nostalgia and the triumph of celebrity culture.
Goldberg hasn’t souffléd his criticisms yet, at least not for his own dining, and neither should anyone else.  He roasts ESPN well in his column, lambasting them for their historical ignorance about the salute, the times, and the message it sent about politics and sports.  In the end, Goldberg exposes ESPN’s Espy decision as particularly half-baked.

No one really doubts any more that the Olympics is all about politics, and this year above all should make that clear.  The IOC awarded the games to Beijing in an attempt to ingratiate themselves with the political leadership in China, despite human-rights concerns as well as smog that could choke a horse.  During the Cold War, the Games served as a proxy for armed conflict, with the Soviets and their satellites ruining the health of their athletes with massive doses of steroids and other chemicals designed to improve performances.  Hitler staged the 1936 Olympiad as a tribute to the dominance of the “Aryan” master race.

The exploitation of the event by individuals such as Carlos and Smith therefore isn’t exactly a groundbreaking shift.  However, Goldberg reminds ESPN of what exactly the salute supported.  The Panthers at that time were an armed militia which wanted to enforce its point of view with violence.  Nine police officers were killed in confrontations with the Panthers and dozens more injured.  Their motto, “Off the pigs!”, often accompanied the salute Smith and Carlos gave in Mexico City.

https://i37.tinypic.com/rjgj77.jpg

As Goldberg notes, no one at ESPN appears to have bothered to research the incident beyond the film clip.  Stuart Scott laughably recounted his own memories of the event and the times in which they occurred — even though he was three years old at the time.  Their entire staff seems afflicted by the same superficiality.  Of course the two men showed some courage in demonstrating at the Olympics knowing what the reaction would be — but what did that courage serve?  One cannot honor courage without accepting its context, which makes this sound as though ESPN endorsed the Panthers and their activities during this period.

Maybe ESPN should stick to sports instead of interpreting history.
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Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France
Indirectly yes.  Panthers = bad.  The support of equal rights = good.
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6798|Connecticut
I don't know. It appears they used a very public celebration to express their personal agenda. Whether it was to advocate civil rights or to advertise something insignificant I am going to employ the "there is a time and place for everything" logic and say that was certainly not it.
Malloy must go
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85
They give the Civil Rights movement a bad name.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Pug wrote:

Indirectly yes.  Panthers = bad.  The support of equal rights = good.
Who accomplished more MLK or the Panthers? Nonviolent or violent?

Martin Lawerence wrote:

Martin Luther King said.
"Nonviolent. Nonviolent."
                   
"By any means necessary."

Martin and Malcolm
were saying the same thing.
             
They just had different opinions
and different approaches to it.

I thought that was beautiful.
I said. "That's all right."

But then one day I was watchin'.
and Martin Luther King...

And I'm named after Martin.
I was proud. Martin!

   
I watched him
go through Birmingham. Alabama.
       
And this racist white boy
picked up a rock...

you know. Like a half a boulder
or some shit.
           
He pitched that motherfucker like he
was pitchin' for the Orioles...
                 
and hit Martin in his head.
         
And all Martin did was say.
"Nonviolent. Nonviolent.
         
Don't nobody do nothin'.
Nonviolent. Nonviolent.
         
My head's bleeding right now.
           
Don't nobody do nothin'.
We shall overcome.
         
I've been to the mountaintop. I'm
having a dream right now. Nonviolent.

Nonviolent. Nonviolent."
   
I was proud. I said. "Damn.

That takes a strong man
to get hit in the head...

with a half a boulder
and still say 'nonviolent. ' Damn!"

But if you're like me...

                   
then one time you would have
loved to hear Martin say...

                   
"Another one of you motherfuckers
hit me with a rock...

   
I'll beat your bitch ass.
you motherfucker.


   
Fuck that. Coretta.
These niggers think I'm soft.

Let me show you how Martin
get down. Motherfucker.

                   
This is how Martin get down."

I know he got on his boys.
I know he was here and said. "Jesse.

Damn it. Jesse. You seen
who threw that fuckin' rock. Jesse.
         
Get off your ass
and go handle that.
           
Stop chasing them ho's. Jesse."
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Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6951
jeered. Black panthers were douches.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

Kmarion wrote:

Pug wrote:

Indirectly yes.  Panthers = bad.  The support of equal rights = good.
Who accomplished more MLK or the Panthers? Nonviolent or violent?
If you take the stance they were ONLY supporting the Panthers then you are correct.

I however do not think that's all they were doing.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7041|Salt Lake City

The Olympics are about representing your country in these international games.  It's not the time or place to bring political or social agendas out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Pug wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Pug wrote:

Indirectly yes.  Panthers = bad.  The support of equal rights = good.
Who accomplished more MLK or the Panthers? Nonviolent or violent?
If you take the stance they were ONLY supporting the Panthers then you are correct.

I however do not think that's all they were doing.
Admittedly I lack the skills to peer into every true soul behind the 60's black power movement. I try to avoid the convenience of speculation.
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Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

The Olympics are about representing your country in these international games.  It's not the time or place to bring political or social agendas out.
LOL, since when?

Just prior to the Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) Athens convinced the city-state of Ellis to suspend Sparta from the Olympic games.



I wish it was without agendas myself...
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6956|USA
Tough question, but to stay true to my libertarian beliefs, I would have to say there should be no problem with it.   I do not think the Confederate Flag should be taken down for being offensive, such is my position for the black power symbol. If it is offensive, tough shit. We have no right NOt to be offended.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

My real problem is using the forum of the Olympics.. something I know that has been going on for an extremely long time. I equate it to the media excitement around celebrities weighing in on politics. Wrong venue, no business ..
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Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

Kmarion wrote:

Admittedly I lack the skills to peer into every true soul behind the 60's black power movement. I try to avoid the convenience of speculation.
I think it's naive to think this act did not play some kind of role in changing race relations within our society.

Clearly the Panthers were not an organization which is to be admired.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6956|USA

Kmarion wrote:

My real problem is using the forum of the Olympics.. something I know that has been going on for an extremely long time. I equate it to the media excitement around celebrities weighing in on politics. Wrong venue, no business ..
I gotta disagree. The Olympics belong to no one if not the athletes. It is their moment to do with as they see fit. If they have a meesage during their 15 minutes of fame the floor is theirs, if we do not like the message we do not have to agree or watch.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6937|949

The Black Panthers were born during a time of incredible political unrest and racial inequality.  The fact that they supported violence does not detract from the social issues they were born out of - they weren't trying to force their point of view with violence, they were reciprocating very real violent situations with violence.  Was that the best way?  Not in my opinion, but certainly there could be justifications made for such violence.

Personally, I think the "who accomplished more" argument isn't relevant to this discussion, which I see as "should athletes use the Olympic Games to promote personal or social agendas".  To that question, I don't really care.  I don't hold the Olympics as some hallowed games that are sacrosanct to the nation-state.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-07-29 12:38:16)

topal63
. . .
+533|7023
^^^ I sort-of agree with the last two statements; last two posters.

Last edited by topal63 (2008-07-29 13:04:27)

Thorax
Banned
+77|6109
If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6937|949

Thorax wrote:

If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
Yes, everything should be taken at face value; no context needed.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-07-29 12:58:17)

Thorax
Banned
+77|6109

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Thorax wrote:

If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
Yes, everything should be taken at face value; no context needed.
Well, they want equality so bad it only seems fair to me.


Or is that only count when it can be viewed as heroic or beneficial to them?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

Thorax wrote:

If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
You mean like when the Olympics were in Berlin?
Thorax
Banned
+77|6109

Pug wrote:

Thorax wrote:

If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
You mean like when the Olympics were in Berlin?
Well granted, that was a weeeeeeeeee bit different.  This is 1968 were talking about here.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

Thorax wrote:

Pug wrote:

Thorax wrote:

If it had been a white guy giving a white power salute they would have been jailed or socially destroyed.

When it's a black guy giving a black power salute they give him a courage award.




Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?  Do we really need a debate on this?  It's pretty crystal clear.
You mean like when the Olympics were in Berlin?
Well granted, that was a weeeeeeeeee bit different.  This is 1968 were talking about here.
Is it?

I thought we were talking about mixing racial hate politics with sports?
Thorax
Banned
+77|6109

Pug wrote:

Thorax wrote:

Pug wrote:


You mean like when the Olympics were in Berlin?
Well granted, that was a weeeeeeeeee bit different.  This is 1968 were talking about here.
Is it?

I thought we were talking about mixing racial hate politics with sports?
That was their NATIONAL salute.  Hitler was sitting in the audience.  They didn't have much of a choice did they?

Yes, we know Hitler was bad.  Thank you.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6648|tropical regions of london
because everything was hunky dory in 1968
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

lowing wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

My real problem is using the forum of the Olympics.. something I know that has been going on for an extremely long time. I equate it to the media excitement around celebrities weighing in on politics. Wrong venue, no business ..
I gotta disagree. The Olympics belong to no one if not the athletes. It is their moment to do with as they see fit. If they have a meesage during their 15 minutes of fame the floor is theirs, if we do not like the message we do not have to agree or watch.
The Olympics belongs to the fans as well. It is also a representation of an entire nation... well maybe not the special Olympics. I feel that using the Olympic podium to push a personal political message is not right. Look at it from this approach, .. Just because someone is not capable of record breaking speed it doesn't mean that they aren't equally worthy of 15 minutes of political talk.
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