BF2S Forums My conflict between what I believe and what is acceptable

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1, not really, you just proved my point, a cartoon affected them deeply, yet violence in their name,,,,,,,nehhhhhhhh why bother....Image over action..My point.

Do I really have to reprint my PIRA/Al Qaeda analogy again? It is really necessary? Has it come to this? Are you really incapable of comprehending the logic of the analogy? I never protested PIRA atrocities yet I wuold have been and would be prepared to protest an Orange march through my neighbourhood. Is it really so difficult to understand?

lowing wrote:

2. Noooooooo Cam, when I have posted about Islam immigration into Europe, you are one of the FIRST to point out the small numbers and the insignificance of it, yet you turn to these same people as PROOF and significance in one of your arguments.

Small numbers in terms of ACTUAL QUANTIFIABLE THINGS LIKE POPULATION. You cannot correlate that with presuming general opinion - you would have to put the entire mass to a poll on the matter. Again, you continue to avoid the 'violent muslim horde' refraining from 'slaying' the millions of western holidaymakers in the middle east. That is a verifiable and quantifiable truth.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. No it is not difficult to understand......What I get from this is................you haven't protested them.

No what you don't get is that I didn't protest them and that Muslims wouldn't either for the exact same reason. You're beginning to just troll at this stage.

lowing wrote:

2. No I answered this with the corrolation that YOU will claim, because of our gun laws that we are a nation of cowboys, shoot from the hip and ask questions later, gun toting fanatical gun slingers, yet millions come to the US every year and go home without being shot....So, tell me the difference if we are gunna sling generalizations.

Thank you. I myself go to the US frequently without being shot and will hopefully return home in August without having been shot either. It goes to show that gun crime isn't as massive an issue as people make out. The safe transit of millions into and out of the US each year verifies this. Similarly, the safe transit of millions of westerners into and out of the middle east each year verifies that this 'Islamic reign of terror' and violent anti-westernism amongst Muslims is massively exaggerated: much like US gun crime.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. No it is not difficult to understand......What I get from this is................you haven't protested them.

No what you don't get is that I didn't protest them and that Muslims wouldn't either for the exact same reason. You're beginning to just troll at this stage.

lowing wrote:

2. No I answered this with the corrolation that YOU will claim, because of our gun laws that we are a nation of cowboys, shoot from the hip and ask questions later, gun toting fanatical gun slingers, yet millions come to the US every year and go home without being shot....So, tell me the difference if we are gunna sling generalizations.

Thank you. I myself go to the US frequently without being shot and will hopefully return home in August without having been shot either. It goes to show that gun crime isn't as massive an issue as people make out. The safe transit of millions into and out of the US each year verifies this. Similarly, the safe transit of millions of westerners into and out of the middle east each year verifies that this 'Islamic reign of terror' and violent anti-westernism amongst Muslims is massively exaggerated: much like US gun crime.

CameronPoe wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Wear a tee shirt with the cross on it or the star of david next time you visit Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria...... maybe carry the bible around with you.

Sorry lotta - I'm not very religious. And when I go places I tend to respect local customs. I won't go walking around Boston wearing a T-shirt saying 'Fuck America' for instance. On that note however - when I was in Petra in Jordan at the hotel dinner table beside me were a bunch of Jews, complete with kippahs. Why were they not instantly slayed?

CameronPoe wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

So it is a local custom to arrest people for religious subversion in Saudi Arabia for displaying nonIslamic religious symbols?  Pull your head out of your arse, it is radical Islam.  You are fucking blind.

In Saudi Arabia you can't just go as a tourist Lotta, in case you need enlightening. You are confined to western 'compounds', in which anything goes. Given that you cannot under any circumstances venture out into Saudi Arabia proper unless you happen to be a Muslim then the whole 'displaying religious symbols' thing is a little irrelevant isn't it? Having said that, Saudi Arabia is a complete cocksucker regime that, even though it owns 30% of America and is one of America's stauncher allies, has instituted Wahabi Islam as the state religion - a sect I deplore - which happens to foster anti-American sentiment.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. Nope I don't troll,................much.............My observation was/is, the protests over a cartoon were ridiculous......The lack of protest over violence is loud and clear.

And I said, about a fucking million times, that there should be no compulsion to protest the violence as they are not to blame and that if someone feels aggrieved about a cartoon then by all means exercise your 'right to assemble'.

lowing wrote:

2. Yet you and people like you think we are all a bunch of crazy gun fanatics ready to shoot down everyone we see? Do I need to go pull posts? Or are you against gun control in the US? Maybe I am not remembering correctly.

Why must you always assume peoples views? Your just pulling 'opinions of mine' out of your ass. I have always stated that gun control in the US is an internal US issue and even if they wanted to enforce gun control it's too late and it's unconstitutional. Quit making shit up. You just seem to lump all opinions contrary to yours into one big 'liberal' pot and assign them to anyone you're arguing with.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-11 12:39:10)

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Also, if you agree with me that image is more important to Islam than action, then just say so then advise me that it is their prerogative to do so.

That would be better than just saying it isn't true.

Not being an asshat here but what do you mean by your question?

Image = what.
Action = what.

I'm unclear as to what you're asking.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I take it that you agree with me that Islam has shown a lot more open outrage over its image in the world, and a lot less open outrage over the actions committed in its name. If we agree on this then simply tell me it is their prerogative to do so. It is their prerogative to protest anything they want. This seems to be your point.

If so, I will just simple laugh at the priority Islam has as to what it deems important enough to protest and what it will let slide because " it does not involve them directly".

It is not protesting at 'its image in the world'. Some Muslims protested at contraventions of the Q'uran that state that graphical depictions of the Prophet are forbidden. Much like how Orthodox Jews protested to succesfully shut a national line of 7-11 type stores throughout Israel on the Sabbath because it contravened scripture. It doesn't have anything to do with image, it is actually to do with piety and religious observance.

You can call it 'letting it slide' but as the analogy goes - I let nothing 'slide' as regards the PIRA because I refuse to share responsibility for their actions, much as most Muslims should not feel compelled to share blame for the actions of some nutters who purport to act in their name. We already went over this several times.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yes we did, then why do the feel compelled to protest something a hellova lot more benign than terrorism in their name..........., cartoons. This is my point. If do not feel compelled to protest ACTUAL terror in your name, then why protest cartoons depicting it?

I think you misunderstand their protests lowing. They were actually a lot simpler than you imagine. They protested the fact that any image at all whatsoever was depicted of Mohammed. The nature of the depiction itself was largely irrelevant. A small number of the protestors made various threats - how does that mesh with a complaint about the cartoons depicting Islam as violent? The fact was that they were protesting the fact someone had the audacity to draw/depict the prophet, not particularly about the image implications. In Islam any graven image at all whatsoever of the prophet is forbidden full stop. It's like the Jews protesting the 7-11 issue while being content not to protest the Israeli army bulldozers detroying the property of innocent relatives of those who attack Israel.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

But no need to protest the audacity to commit terrorism on behalf of Islam. I get whatyou are saying Cam, I really do, and always have. But com'on. you gotta see how this comparison makes Islam look. ................and I didn't make it up

I never contended that you made it up. We're going to have to agree to disagree if you persist. I think you understand what I am saying though.

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

But no need to protest the audacity to commit terrorism on behalf of Islam. I get whatyou are saying Cam, I really do, and always have. But com'on. you gotta see how this comparison makes Islam look. ................and I didn't make it up

I never contended that you made it up. We're going to have to agree to disagree if you persist. I think you understand what I am saying though.

lol, yup I do.............do you agree that Islam does not do much to portrait itself in a mor epositive light considering all that happens in its name?

ATG wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I never contended that you made it up. We're going to have to agree to disagree if you persist. I think you understand what I am saying though.

lol, yup I do.............do you agree that Islam does not do much to portrait itself in a mor epositive light considering all that happens in its name?

You typing this from your laptop, or a computer supplied by the U.S. government.

Oh wait...same difference when it comes to you.