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2008-07-01 18:15:15
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

So what situations do you have the right to shoot someone in?
when there is NO other option. when you have ran as much as you are able and still arent safe. when you are pushed into a corner (literally). when your family is in physical danger and the other person has a weapon.

if someone breaks into my house, and he doesnt have a gun, i CANNOT legally shoot them. i WILL go to prison.
now, if i happen to have a knife on my hip, and he and i get into a scuffle while im trying to call the police....they will be a bit more understanding of why he was turned into a marionette while i was waiting, than why his body is still smoking from the six 20ga rounds.


there are multiple times that i leave my gun at home, for fear of a physical altercation where my gun could fall out and be used by someone else. i walk away from situations that i could definitely handle, cause i have a fucking .45 on my hip.
doesnt matter....as a civilian, it is my job to stay the fuck away from shit like that...more so if i have a gun on me.

it is to protect myself or my family, not a pass to deal out justice as i see fit.
2008-07-01 18:56:33
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85
What if you see someone you don't know getting sexually assaulted?
2008-07-01 18:57:52
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon
TBH, i have never looked into that.
i have *heard* it is legal to use lethal force of any kind in that situation......but i dont act on what i *hear*.

thanks dude, now i get to dive into missouri laws
2008-07-01 18:58:35
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5790|Dublin, Ohio
good on him
2008-07-01 19:04:45
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85

Parker wrote:

TBH, i have never looked into that.
i have *heard* it is legal to use lethal force of any kind in that situation......but i dont act on what i *hear*.

thanks dude, now i get to dive into missouri laws


I'm really not trying to nitpick here, there are just a lot of situations where gun use can be argued either way...the situation may not have been a stellar example for use of firearms, but the people he shot were scum who parked in front of his house (possibly at least) and stole from his neighbor, and the police weren't going to be there to stop it. It's hard to feel sorry.
2008-07-01 19:10:44
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Parker wrote:

TBH, i have never looked into that.
i have *heard* it is legal to use lethal force of any kind in that situation......but i dont act on what i *hear*.

thanks dude, now i get to dive into missouri laws


I'm really not trying to nitpick here, there are just a lot of situations where gun use can be argued either way...the situation may not have been a stellar example for use of firearms, but the people he shot were scum who parked in front of his house (possibly at least) and stole from his neighbor, and the police weren't going to be there to stop it. It's hard to feel sorry.
well, i just look at it from a different point of view.
the shots were not necessary. the amount of damage that could have been done from him firing his gun could have been very substantial.
why risk peoples lives...not only the criminals, but his, his neighbors and anyone that happened to be driving by....just for material possessions?

in my eyes, no amount of material possessions would warrant lethal force. i know that if it came down too it, i could pull the trigger...if it were he and i fighting to the death. if my ass was on the line, i could do it.
i would feel horrible after, but thats normal.

i couldnt cause that much harm to someone over material shit. he could have just as easily sprayed them with pepper spray....i KNOW they would have stopped robbing anything after they got tagged with that, but he chose to take lives instead.
2008-07-01 19:53:00
Nu7
Banned
+12|6406
Yeah lets drop bombs on all the crack houses too there up to no good them sob's
2008-07-01 20:07:18
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85

Parker wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Parker wrote:

TBH, i have never looked into that.
i have *heard* it is legal to use lethal force of any kind in that situation......but i dont act on what i *hear*.

thanks dude, now i get to dive into missouri laws


I'm really not trying to nitpick here, there are just a lot of situations where gun use can be argued either way...the situation may not have been a stellar example for use of firearms, but the people he shot were scum who parked in front of his house (possibly at least) and stole from his neighbor, and the police weren't going to be there to stop it. It's hard to feel sorry.
well, i just look at it from a different point of view.
the shots were not necessary. the amount of damage that could have been done from him firing his gun could have been very substantial.
why risk peoples lives...not only the criminals, but his, his neighbors and anyone that happened to be driving by....just for material possessions?

in my eyes, no amount of material possessions would warrant lethal force. i know that if it came down too it, i could pull the trigger...if it were he and i fighting to the death. if my ass was on the line, i could do it.
i would feel horrible after, but thats normal.

i couldnt cause that much harm to someone over material shit. he could have just as easily sprayed them with pepper spray....i KNOW they would have stopped robbing anything after they got tagged with that, but he chose to take lives instead.
I'm pretty damn sure in his mind it wasn't about material possessions, it's about maintaining order when the state isn't there to do it for him.

They should make some sort of non-lethal guns, maybe tranq guns, or mace guns, or something. I am confident he would have used an alternative if one existed.
2008-07-01 20:17:28
Volatile
Member
+252|6704|Sextupling in Empire

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

What if you see someone you don't know getting sexually assaulted?
Yes, If someone is getting raped you are allowed to use whatever force necessary to stop the assault. Just hope that the jury believes that you were justified in your actions.


All prospective gun owners should be required to pass an exam to show their competence of gun laws prior to them being able to own firearms, IMO.


@Flaming: I guarantee that this guy has anger issues and probably should not be allowed to have a gun. In fact I would bet money on it. A rational individual doesn't do what this guy did, especially when there were no lives at risk. There was no immediate threat to himself, and he had plenty of time to go over his actions. Again, if he didn't live in that crazy ass state of texas, he would be in jail. And rightly so.

Last edited by Volatile (2008-07-01 20:29:07)

2008-07-01 20:43:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

Parker wrote:

this thread is basically saying that its OK to condemn robbers to death.

well what if they are underage? what if they are a woman? what if they only have your TV, and not your fucking Blu-Ray player?


and what if someone steals a pack of cigarettes?
should they die cause they knew they shouldnt have done that?


and what about speeding tickets?

i mean, this will put an entirely DIFFERENT spin on "getting pulled over".

can someone now pull me over and shoot me if they feel like im going too fast?








ya, theres a reason the public doesnt take the law into their own hands......
Like I said, you are asking the wrong questions.............You need to be asking why is stealing another property worth risking getting killed over, instead of asking why kill someone over property?

and what about a speeding ticket?? I think if you have initiated a high speed persuit with the police, once you are caught it is an automatic ass whipping. Regardless of who is filming it, it should be justified that you get the ever living shit kicked outta you for endangering innocent people.


Now, I am curious as to how you can compare going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit with a felony crime such as B&E......Pretty long stretch to try and prove a point.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-01 20:44:25)

2008-07-01 20:48:35
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85

Volatile wrote:

that crazy ass state of texas
Why should I place any weight in the rest of your statements?
2008-07-01 20:50:42
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina
I don't feel sorry for the criminals, but I also don't condone what he did.  Still, I'd probably let him off just like the jury did.
2008-07-01 20:50:51
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

lowing wrote:

Like I said, you are asking the wrong questions.............You need to be asking why is stealing another property worth risking getting killed over, instead of asking why kill someone over property?
lowing, in a perfect world, no one would steal things.
we dont live there....at least i dont. so unfortunately the question can become, "Is human life worth taking over property?".

have you ever been in a situation where you had to choose life over property?

lowing wrote:

and what about a speeding ticket?? I think if you have initiated a high speed persuit with the police, once you are caught it is an automatic ass whipping. Regardless of who is filming it, it should be justified that you get the ever living shit kicked outta you for endangering innocent people.
im not talking about a high speed pursuit.
that carries a long list of felonies, and yes, you do get your ass whooped for that. 


lowing wrote:

Now, I am curious as to how you can compare going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit with a felony crime such as B&E......Pretty long stretch to try and prove a point.
im glad, cause now i can explain it.

heres the thing:
this guy took the law into his own hands.....bottom line.
so at the end of the day, him deciding that B&E is worth killing over, isnt too far off from someone deciding i am putting their life in danger from speeding.
ITS NOT HIS DECISION TO MAKE!
you see, this guy was really off his rocker.
gun ownership DOES NOT give you the right to decide what criminals live and die.
2008-07-01 20:51:54
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
peel back some caps yo
2008-07-01 20:55:27
Volatile
Member
+252|6704|Sextupling in Empire

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Volatile wrote:

that crazy ass state of texas
Why should I place any weight in the rest of your statements?
Because I've actually taken a course for my CCW and have owned numerous firearms unlike yourself.
2008-07-01 20:58:00
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85

Volatile wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Volatile wrote:

that crazy ass state of texas
Why should I place any weight in the rest of your statements?
Because I've actually taken a course for my CCW and have owned numerous firearms unlike yourself.
What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
2008-07-01 20:59:02
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Volatile wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


Why should I place any weight in the rest of your statements?
Because I've actually taken a course for my CCW and have owned numerous firearms unlike yourself.
What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
he knows his laws, which is more than i can say for half the people in this thread.
2008-07-01 20:59:57
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6706|67.222.138.85

Parker wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Volatile wrote:


Because I've actually taken a course for my CCW and have owned numerous firearms unlike yourself.
What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
he knows his laws, which is more than i can say for half the people in this thread.
You think owning a gun guarantees knowing gun laws? Or vice versa?
2008-07-01 21:01:18
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Parker wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
he knows his laws, which is more than i can say for half the people in this thread.
You think owning a gun guarantees knowing gun laws? Or vice versa?
NO!
hell, look at the guy this thread is about.


no no, volatile has shown me that he knows his laws.
2008-07-01 21:02:53
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6580|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Parker wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
he knows his laws, which is more than i can say for half the people in this thread.
You think owning a gun guarantees knowing gun laws? Or vice versa?
someone with a cwp generally has a better idea what is and isn't ok.
2008-07-01 21:03:26
Volatile
Member
+252|6704|Sextupling in Empire

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Parker wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


What does actual ownership of firearms have anything to do with it?
he knows his laws, which is more than i can say for half the people in this thread.
You think owning a gun guarantees knowing gun laws? Or vice versa?
One is more likely(and I stress MORE LIKELY) to have interest in the law according to firearms when one owns, then a person that doesn't own. Why would you care what laws are or what the responsibility is if you don't even own one, or have not been raised up with firearms.
2008-07-01 21:03:37
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

Parker wrote:

lowing wrote:

Like I said, you are asking the wrong questions.............You need to be asking why is stealing another property worth risking getting killed over, instead of asking why kill someone over property?
lowing, in a perfect world, no one would steal things.
we dont live there....at least i dont. so unfortunately the question can become, "Is human life worth taking over property?".

have you ever been in a situation where you had to choose life over property?

lowing wrote:

and what about a speeding ticket?? I think if you have initiated a high speed persuit with the police, once you are caught it is an automatic ass whipping. Regardless of who is filming it, it should be justified that you get the ever living shit kicked outta you for endangering innocent people.
im not talking about a high speed pursuit.
that carries a long list of felonies, and yes, you do get your ass whooped for that. 


lowing wrote:

Now, I am curious as to how you can compare going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit with a felony crime such as B&E......Pretty long stretch to try and prove a point.
im glad, cause now i can explain it.

heres the thing:
this guy took the law into his own hands.....bottom line.
so at the end of the day, him deciding that B&E is worth killing over, isnt too far off from someone deciding i am putting their life in danger from speeding.
ITS NOT HIS DECISION TO MAKE!
you see, this guy was really off his rocker.
gun ownership DOES NOT give you the right to decide what criminals live and die.
1. yer right, we do not live in a perfect world, but today, it is minus 2 criminals closer to perfection.

2. Never have, don't wanna be, but I will tell you now, NO ONE is simply going to break into my home and find me there handing over the keys because I value that criminals life over my shit. I do not.

3. I think we agree for the first time on something.

4. This guy defended his nieghborhood, he got involved and the right people got hurt for it ( for a change). I will sleep just fine tonight.
B&E  is not worth killing over, B&E is worth defending against, and if the criminals get killed in that defense, then so be it.

Gun ownership does not give you the right to decide who lives or dies..........but B&E is a profession that has certain risks, you simply need to list death amongst them.
2008-07-01 21:10:33
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6580|the dank(super) side of Oregon

lowing wrote:

B&E  is not worth killing over, B&E is worth defending against, and if the criminals get killed in that defense, then so be it.
were those punks approaching the old timer or his house?  This particular shooting wasn't defensive.
2008-07-01 21:11:48
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6394|The Gem Saloon

lowing wrote:

1. yer right, we do not live in a perfect world, but today, it is minus 2 criminals closer to perfection.
fair enough. they wont rob anyone ever again, but who knows how many lives were adversely effected from his actions.

lowing wrote:

2. Never have, don't wanna be, but I will tell you now, NO ONE is simply going to break into my home and find me there handing over the keys because I value that criminals life over my shit. I do not.
then i will ask you to think of the lives of your family, and your neighbors before you take that shot. i know you have at least a 9mm in your house, and that my friend will penetrate the walls of your home and injure anyone on the other side.
also, unless you live in Texas, be prepared to go to prison for the taking of human life over material possessions.
thats a law

lowing wrote:

3. I think we agree for the first time on something.
shit the bed!

lowing wrote:

4. This guy defended his nieghborhood, he got involved and the right people got hurt for it ( for a change). I will sleep just fine tonight.
B&E  is not worth killing over, B&E is worth defending against, and if the criminals get killed in that defense, then so be it.
he wasnt defending.
shooting someone in the back is an offensive move....NO way around that.

lowing wrote:

Gun ownership does not give you the right to decide who lives or dies..........but B&E is a profession that has certain risks, you simply need to list death amongst them.
indeed, if you wish to rob to make a living, you have to factor that in.
though, it still doesnt give you the right to shoot someone over it...unless you or your family are in serious physical danger, you do not have the right to use lethal force.
ever.
2008-07-01 21:14:33
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6651|USA

Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

B&E  is not worth killing over, B&E is worth defending against, and if the criminals get killed in that defense, then so be it.
were those punks approaching the old timer or his house?  This particular shooting wasn't defensive.
nope, they were in this guys nieghborhood, he was defending that nieghborhood and his nieghbors.. I beleive it to be true that once a successful B&E occurs in a nieghborhood, you can pretty much expect more from the same people.....Well, except these 2 criminal

 

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