I took no offense. And I understand you guys must be kinda tired of us foreigners talking all the time about GWB and the US. But, try to understand two things: this is an American forum, and the US is a major player in international affairs, hence the US will come up as a topic sooner or later. That doesn't mean the person discussing these issues is anti-American. Maybe some of them are, like that Rammunition guy, but not me.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I know. Kon obviously didn't bother to read what my post was in reply too and takes flippant comments waaaayy too seriously.
Good point and you are spot on. I am no GWB supporter but hereing your country being tore down daily (usually with blatant lie) gets old.
Freedom for Palestine!
I agree with serge. The US meddles in other countries' business (or has since WWII). I'm not saying it's bad (despite my choice of words), just that this gives us the right to criticize their politics. A super power such as the USA (both economically and military wise) will always be talked about - and criticized.
Lotta_Drool - I implied that it could have been you, the way you've been acting recently. Not saying it was, just that I wouldn't be surprised. I'd like to see some more thought out posts...
I may take thing seriously, but can you blame me? We're in "Debate and Serious Talk", and frankly, I would rather not take your posts seriously - it would make more sense if you were joking most of the time. Maybe it's just that I've heard ye olde phrase "stick to your own politics" too many times on these forums. I apologize if I offended you
-kon
Lotta_Drool - I implied that it could have been you, the way you've been acting recently. Not saying it was, just that I wouldn't be surprised. I'd like to see some more thought out posts...
I may take thing seriously, but can you blame me? We're in "Debate and Serious Talk", and frankly, I would rather not take your posts seriously - it would make more sense if you were joking most of the time. Maybe it's just that I've heard ye olde phrase "stick to your own politics" too many times on these forums. I apologize if I offended you
-kon
He didn't leave that karma coz he left another one later signed by him.konfusion wrote:
I agree with serge. The US meddles in other countries' business (or has since WWII). I'm not saying it's bad (despite my choice of words), just that this gives us the right to criticize their politics. A super power such as the USA (both economically and military wise) will always be talked about - and criticized.
Lotta_Drool - I implied that it could have been you, the way you've been acting recently. Not saying it was, just that I wouldn't be surprised. I'd like to see some more thought out posts...
I may take thing seriously, but can you blame me? We're in "Debate and Serious Talk", and frankly, I would rather not take your posts seriously - it would make more sense if you were joking most of the time. Maybe it's just that I've heard ye olde phrase "stick to your own politics" too many times on these forums. I apologize if I offended you
-kon
I knew it wouldn't long before this video was called a "fake" by apologists. If people can read cameras were handed out by Israeli peace groups to Palestinians to record abuse.
And one more thing, when you are under oppression, there is no such thing as terrorism, its called freedom fighting!
And one more thing, when you are under oppression, there is no such thing as terrorism, its called freedom fighting!
palastinians are way too busy indulging themselves with violence where the end result is too little progress for peacemaking.
While the Israelis are far too busy indulging themselves in other people's land and orgies of collective punishment. There are no angels in that conflict.specialistx2324 wrote:
palastinians are way too busy indulging themselves with violence where the end result is too little progress for peacemaking.
I think the nomads living in the Palestine territory that was Occupied by Israel after they were attacked by Islamic nations from that territory should be sent packing to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. This would end the whole issue. Israel just needs to get its act together and give these sqatters the boot from a territory they laid claim too after they were attacked in the name of Islam by the surrounding countries.
Hell, the squatters are just Hamas terrorists. People just need to get over their terrorist rights BS.
Hell, the squatters are just Hamas terrorists. People just need to get over their terrorist rights BS.
i wonder why Jordan, Egypt, and Syrian themselves haven't welcomed these refugees. They use the palestinians as pawns to further the agenda item of eliminating the state of Israel.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I think the nomads living in the Palestine territory that was Occupied by Israel after they were attacked by Islamic nations from that territory should be sent packing to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. This would end the whole issue. Israel just needs to get its act together and give these sqatters the boot from a territory they laid claim too after they were attacked in the name of Islam by the surrounding countries.
Hell, the squatters are just Hamas terrorists. People just need to get over their terrorist rights BS.
http://frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/BigLies.pdf
I agree the Palestinians have learned to use propaganda effectively.ATG wrote:
Trus dat.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The Palestinians fake films like this all the time and the media runs them. I will never believe their propaganda.
That footage could be od anyone taken by anyone and proves nothing.
I saw the tooth faery the other day. Really.
Kind of like the fabricated propaganda displayed to the UN in the run up to the Iraqi invasion. Its why I take everything which is spouted by the same hawks today with a huge pinch of salt.
Although the people who cry the current Iran propaganda is fact will say the Palestinian propaganda is all false.
Front page mag is a publication presenting a neoconservative viewpoint on various subjects. And we all know how impartial neo cons are don't we...CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
i wonder why Jordan, Egypt, and Syrian themselves haven't welcomed these refugees. They use the palestinians as pawns to further the agenda item of eliminating the state of Israel.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I think the nomads living in the Palestine territory that was Occupied by Israel after they were attacked by Islamic nations from that territory should be sent packing to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. This would end the whole issue. Israel just needs to get its act together and give these sqatters the boot from a territory they laid claim too after they were attacked in the name of Islam by the surrounding countries.
Hell, the squatters are just Hamas terrorists. People just need to get over their terrorist rights BS.
http://frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/BigLies.pdf
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
@meth: i see, so the fact that the document was sourced from a so-called 'biased' site means we do not have to debate the issues put forth in the document. this is a great tactic. but then why do we have even have this forum at all if not to discuss issues?
Feel free to read the document and pick apart the arguments pointed out there. tell me why the author is soooo wrong about his views. help me understand why you think they are false.
Feel free to read the document and pick apart the arguments pointed out there. tell me why the author is soooo wrong about his views. help me understand why you think they are false.
You didn't use the same logic when some people here said the video in the OP was fake.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
@meth: i see, so the fact that the document was sourced from a so-called 'biased' site means we do not have to debate the issues put forth in the document. this is a great tactic. but then why do we have even have this forum at all if not to discuss issues?
Feel free to read the document and pick apart the arguments pointed out there. tell me why the author is soooo wrong about his views. help me understand why you think they are false.
isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.rammunition wrote:
I knew it wouldn't long before this video was called a "fake" by apologists. If people can read cameras were handed out by Israeli peace groups to Palestinians to record abuse.
And one more thing, when you are under oppression, there is no such thing as terrorism, its called freedom fighting!
my assertion is that if palestine wanted to get to the end goal of getting their own state and even eliminating the state of israel, they could do this non-militarily. through world pressure, they could get their own state side by side with israel. then, they might even be able to stage attacks and defeat israel legally since they'd have soverign territory arguments which could draw the UN into play, etc. Also, by splitting up israel geogrphically they could control some of israel's resources like water, power, etc. my claim is that they can get to the end goal FASTER through non-violence now and strategically they could later turn violent when israel is weaker through the two state solution.
my belief however is that if the palestinians stop the violence and do eventually get their own state, that through a few generations (since this all takes alot of time), the young people will be more satisfied with their lives than now and violence will become less of an alternative since their lives are not as shitty. so, to also will the desire to erase the state of israel. so perhaps through non-violence they could actually increase the standard of living and be happier.
the other half of this equation is support from local arab states like syria, egypt, etc. right now, these countries use the palestinians as pawns (i said this before) and thorn in side of israel because they don't want israel to exist.
for all i know that video could be legitimate, but i couldn't tell what was happening becuase of the shitty camera work. honestly...how frigging hard is it to hold a camera still and use zoom properly. you can get a stick and set the camcorder on top of it for a steady mount. the jihadi vids also suck because of this. read the instructions on how to use a camcorder FFS!sergeriver wrote:
You didn't use the same logic when some people here said the video in the OP was fake.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
@meth: i see, so the fact that the document was sourced from a so-called 'biased' site means we do not have to debate the issues put forth in the document. this is a great tactic. but then why do we have even have this forum at all if not to discuss issues?
Feel free to read the document and pick apart the arguments pointed out there. tell me why the author is soooo wrong about his views. help me understand why you think they are false.
however, from what i did manage to see in the video,
1) bunch of MASKED people walking up a hill with clubs
2) few other people on top of hill looking off in the distance (these later people were clubbed)
3) if i saw some people walking toward me menacingly with clubs, i would have reacted a bit differently than the people in the video. i would have taken a defensive posture or retreated to get weapons. these people just stood there and took a beating. what do you think is going to happen when mr. club holder is marching steadily towards you.
4) we did not hear any audio and the masked guys did not appear to be jewish nor palestinian themselves. could it be possible that some palestinians beat up other palestininans knowing that the camera was being used? or is that completely off the table? what i'm getting at is that we do not know who these attackers are.
so i cannot make the claim that this is propaganda on either side. we just don't know enough from looking at the video that was posted. so i guess you can look at that as not really defending.
Agreed. They should learn to use a camera.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
just don't know enough from looking at the video that was posted. so i guess you can look at that as not really defending.
Even if they beat them, so what? Every nation on this planet have its idiots. Big fucking deal.
Ah right, it happens in Israel. UH OH
Ah right, it happens in Israel. UH OH
Lisik wrote:
Even if they beat them, so what? Every nation on this planet have its idiots. Big fucking deal.
Ah right, it happens in Israel. UH OH
Where did this happen? Israel?Lisik wrote:
Even if they beat them, so what? Every nation on this planet have its idiots. Big fucking deal.
Ah right, it happens in Israel. UH OH
It's not 'so called' it is a neo con website. Look up the term credibility and then have at look at the website. I sincerly hope you're not a frequent visitor.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
@meth: i see, so the fact that the document was sourced from a so-called 'biased' site means we do not have to debate the issues put forth in the document. this is a great tactic. but then why do we have even have this forum at all if not to discuss issues?
Feel free to read the document and pick apart the arguments pointed out there. tell me why the author is soooo wrong about his views. help me understand why you think they are false.
That 'document' is nothing but propaganda wank....i have better things to do than read Zionist bullshit, but i did look at the references it 'cites'....LOL.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Al Gore is a douche. Kerry was the alternative.sergeriver wrote:
And why did you guys vote GWB twice?Lotta_Drool wrote:
We have a saying in Crawford Texas " fool me once........ A fool don't fool me again. ".
Xbone Stormsurgezz
al gore is more of a douche than bush? IMO bush is on a whole different planet and i thought that way before iraq. I really don't know how you lot never saw it.Kmarion wrote:
Al Gore is a douche. Kerry was the alternative.sergeriver wrote:
And why did you guys vote GWB twice?Lotta_Drool wrote:
We have a saying in Crawford Texas " fool me once........ A fool don't fool me again. ".
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Perhaps if Americans could have predicted 9/11 and the subsequent events following (Major natural disasters, Corporate Scandals, 2 wars), there would have actually been a reason to wonder why Americans voted for Bush over Gore.m3thod wrote:
al gore is more of a douche than bush? IMO bush is on a whole different planet and i thought that way before iraq. I really don't know how you lot never saw it.Kmarion wrote:
Al Gore is a douche. Kerry was the alternative.sergeriver wrote:
And why did you guys vote GWB twice?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Riiiight.m3thod wrote:
al gore is more of a douche than bush? IMO bush is on a whole different planet and i thought that way before iraq. I really don't know how you lot never saw it.Kmarion wrote:
Al Gore is a douche. Kerry was the alternative.sergeriver wrote:
And why did you guys vote GWB twice?
So what issue did you have with Bush before Iraq ?