Hagee is one of those doomsday preechers i used to listen to on TBN via Cornerstone Church in San antonio Texas. i dont watch their programs anymore because i was offended by some of the stuff they say. case in point. Rod Parsley.
Thats what I was thinking. I find some religious americans quite scary sometimes.Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
i believe in god.. ( yes i am saying that). i just dont trust religions and denominations anymore. they have a BADDD habit of saying one thing and doing another. my faith is good enough for me
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from the religious nutjobs running the show. You know, the King/Queen BS who were "decedent from god". As far as I know we haven't had any real wars over religion. Europe is stained with the blood of nutjobs who claim to have been doing gods work. This idea of parading preachers/pastors out for everyone to see is just identity politics. It started around the Carter years.Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
There are religious nutjobs in every country. The US is not unique in that catagory.Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
Ya!! Just like ice creamsergeriver wrote:
Yup, the three are Abrahamic Religions, pretty much the same shit, just different flavors tbh.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Hitler talks about how much he hated Jews, yet the Nazi's were Christian. Which is a Jewish religion (same for Islam). These Jew haters are hilarious. They don't even realise the only reason their religion exists is because of the Jews.
says the man from a country torn by centuries of religious warfare...Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
While that is true, I saw a study in the economist that indicates that in the USA, people are much more likely to vote for a guy of a faith (Christian kind - most likely not Muslim), whereas in the UK, it really doesn't matter whether he is religious or not.Kmarion wrote:
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from the religious nutjobs running the show. You know, the King/Queen BS who were "decedent from god". As far as I know we haven't had any real wars over religion. Europe is stained with the blood of nutjobs who claim to have been doing gods work. This idea of parading preachers/pastors out for everyone to see is just identity politics. It started around the Carter years.Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
-konfusion
Well, to be fair, evangelicism isn't exactly a mainstream religious movement in most of Europe. In America, it is. This is why people like Hagee should worry people. Also, consider the number of cults we have here. You don't see as much of that in most of Europe either.
One could also argue that the bloody familiarity with fanatical religion that Europe has is more conducive to secularism in their modern societies. America's relative lack of religious war allows us to foolishly trust religion more than our European brethren.
Granted... Europe is currently facing fanaticism coming from the Middle East, and the way we deal with fanatical Islam seems far more logical than the way they do it.
Now, if only we could restrain our fanatical Christianity somehow.
One could also argue that the bloody familiarity with fanatical religion that Europe has is more conducive to secularism in their modern societies. America's relative lack of religious war allows us to foolishly trust religion more than our European brethren.
Granted... Europe is currently facing fanaticism coming from the Middle East, and the way we deal with fanatical Islam seems far more logical than the way they do it.
Now, if only we could restrain our fanatical Christianity somehow.
Send troops to occupy FLDS and WBC instead of sending them to Anbar?Turquoise wrote:
Well, to be fair, evangelicism isn't exactly a mainstream religious movement in most of Europe. In America, it is. This is why people like Hagee should worry people. Also, consider the number of cults we have here. You don't see as much of that in most of Europe either.
One could also argue that the bloody familiarity with fanatical religion that Europe has is more conducive to secularism in their modern societies. America's relative lack of religious war allows us to foolishly trust religion more than our European brethren.
Granted... Europe is currently facing fanaticism coming from the Middle East, and the way we deal with fanatical Islam seems far more logical than the way they do it.
Now, if only we could restrain our fanatical Christianity somehow.
Works for me... hehS.Lythberg wrote:
Send troops to occupy FLDS and WBC instead of sending them to Anbar?Turquoise wrote:
Well, to be fair, evangelicism isn't exactly a mainstream religious movement in most of Europe. In America, it is. This is why people like Hagee should worry people. Also, consider the number of cults we have here. You don't see as much of that in most of Europe either.
One could also argue that the bloody familiarity with fanatical religion that Europe has is more conducive to secularism in their modern societies. America's relative lack of religious war allows us to foolishly trust religion more than our European brethren.
Granted... Europe is currently facing fanaticism coming from the Middle East, and the way we deal with fanatical Islam seems far more logical than the way they do it.
Now, if only we could restrain our fanatical Christianity somehow.
problem solved thenTurquoise wrote:
Works for me... hehS.Lythberg wrote:
Send troops to occupy FLDS and WBC instead of sending them to Anbar?Turquoise wrote:
Well, to be fair, evangelicism isn't exactly a mainstream religious movement in most of Europe. In America, it is. This is why people like Hagee should worry people. Also, consider the number of cults we have here. You don't see as much of that in most of Europe either.
One could also argue that the bloody familiarity with fanatical religion that Europe has is more conducive to secularism in their modern societies. America's relative lack of religious war allows us to foolishly trust religion more than our European brethren.
Granted... Europe is currently facing fanaticism coming from the Middle East, and the way we deal with fanatical Islam seems far more logical than the way they do it.
Now, if only we could restrain our fanatical Christianity somehow.
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
I'm fairly sure that plan wouldn't include sending 6 million god-fearing Jews to death camps...Stingray24 wrote:
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
You're right that this plan idea is no more far fetched than belief in an all-knowing divine being that also happens to be invisible.Stingray24 wrote:
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
Yep, Hitler was a Catholic but at a young age left the church and never sincerly went back. But theNazis were a cult of sorts and the statd wastheir godOrangeHound wrote:
The Nazi's were not Christian ... they were a political entity, however they wisely aligned themselves with the Christian churches in order to give their agenda credence with the people. It is classic politics, and it has been used successfully throughout history.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
... yet the Nazi's were Christian ...
If you read the Bible you'll find that the followers of God are not promised a perfect life immune from the persecution and atrocities of other human beings. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. Free will is a double edged sword ... the Nazis chose a murderous plan for genocide and the Allies chose to fight and defeat them. The end resulted in the Jewish people residing in the Middle East.S.Lythberg wrote:
I'm fairly sure that plan wouldn't include sending 6 million god-fearing Jews to death camps...Stingray24 wrote:
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
Come now, Turquoise, even an atheist such as yourself can acknowledge that it makes sense that God would have a plan if He is all-knowing. I won’t demand you believe as I do and I understand that the concept of God and His plan are concepts you reject. However, for the sake of argument, if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?Turquoise wrote:
You're right that this plan idea is no more far fetched than belief in an all-knowing divine being that also happens to be invisible.Stingray24 wrote:
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
You mention free will and God's plan in the same post. How do you reconcile that?Stingray24 wrote:
Free will is a double edged sword
if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?
I'll buy that. Curious though, how many Muslims are running Public office in the UK?konfusion wrote:
While that is true, I saw a study in the economist that indicates that in the USA, people are much more likely to vote for a guy of a faith (Christian kind - most likely not Muslim), whereas in the UK, it really doesn't matter whether he is religious or not.Kmarion wrote:
Our ancestors left Europe to get away from the religious nutjobs running the show. You know, the King/Queen BS who were "decedent from god". As far as I know we haven't had any real wars over religion. Europe is stained with the blood of nutjobs who claim to have been doing gods work. This idea of parading preachers/pastors out for everyone to see is just identity politics. It started around the Carter years.Braddock wrote:
There are some real fucking nutjobs in America when it comes to religion...and seemingly in some very influential positions too.
-konfusion
I know we have a few (including congress).
Andre Carson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Carson
Ako Abdul-Samad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ako_Abdul-Samad
Keith Ellison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Elli … itician%29
Talibdin El-Amin: http://www.tdelamin.com/
Rodney Hubbard: http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bi … mem058.htm
Jamilah Nasheed: http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bi … mem060.htm
Larry Shaw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Shaw_(politician)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
noStingray24 wrote:
However, for the sake of argument, if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?
what if we're just a little terrarium created for his amusement?
I take the deist approach to God, that it is entirely possible that he exists, and created the natural laws by which the universe functions, but plays little to no role in it's day to day functions.
I'll put it this way... If God is both all-knowing and all-powerful, then I would assume everything happens the way that God wants it to. Judging by how much of human history involves war and genocide, I find it very difficult to assume that God is benevolent if he is also the other 2 traits.Stingray24 wrote:
Come now, Turquoise, even an atheist such as yourself can acknowledge that it makes sense that God would have a plan if He is all-knowing. I won’t demand you believe as I do and I understand that the concept of God and His plan are concepts you reject. However, for the sake of argument, if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?Turquoise wrote:
You're right that this plan idea is no more far fetched than belief in an all-knowing divine being that also happens to be invisible.Stingray24 wrote:
Christians believe God is all-knowing. In light of that, is the fact that He has a plan that far fetched? Oh that's right, we finite beings know better than the infinite God.
But yes, perhaps the Holocaust was just another part of a plan that seems to involve letting us kill each other off aimlessly.
So basically all religions stemmed from one religion, so we shouldn't be hating other religions, because then we are hating our own?Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Hitler talks about how much he hated Jews, yet the Nazi's were Christian. Which is a Jewish religion (same for Islam). These Jew haters are hilarious. They don't even realise the only reason their religion exists is because of the Jews.
wut
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_willTurquoise wrote:
I'll put it this way... If God is both all-knowing and all-powerful, then I would assume everything happens the way that God wants it to. Judging by how much of human history involves war and genocide, I find it very difficult to assume that God is benevolent if he is also the other 2 traits.Stingray24 wrote:
Come now, Turquoise, even an atheist such as yourself can acknowledge that it makes sense that God would have a plan if He is all-knowing. I won’t demand you believe as I do and I understand that the concept of God and His plan are concepts you reject. However, for the sake of argument, if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?Turquoise wrote:
You're right that this plan idea is no more far fetched than belief in an all-knowing divine being that also happens to be invisible.
But yes, perhaps the Holocaust was just another part of a plan that seems to involve letting us kill each other off aimlessly.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Free will technically does not exist if a divine being that is omnipotent and omniscient exists.Kmarion wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
The reason for this can be summed up as the following....
God created us knowing beforehand every action we'd make. So, from our own perspectives, we think we have free will, but we really aren't anything more than what God made us. So, in effect, everything that happens is actually God's fault, because we're only acting out exactly the way that God planned things to occur.
The only way that free will exists involves either no God, or a god without both omniscience and omnipotence. It can only have one or the other for true free will to exist, because otherwise, there is nothing outside of God's will.
A question of the ages ...Reciprocity wrote:
You mention free will and God's plan in the same post. How do you reconcile that?Stingray24 wrote:
Free will is a double edged sword
if you grant that God exists and is all-knowing He surely must have a plan, yes?
I do not have the mind of God with the benefit of knowing all and seeing the past and the future, so I do not fully understand how the two coexist. However, I will do my best to answer this on an internet forum. There are far more qualified theologians who have tackled this question and I suggest reading their work if you truly want a comprehensive answer. In short, the fact that God is all-powerful does not in turn mean that He must use His power. God sent His Son to die to provide salvation for humankind, yet He leaves the choice to us as to whether we will believe or not. I find it curious that when we encounter bad or unpleasant times in life, we will point at God, questioning why He did not step in. Yet up to that point, we refuse to acknowledge His existence as long as things are going on nicely.