Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6737|Cambridge (UK)
...is how it totally fucks people up.

I've known numerous ex-military people in my time and, whether they've seen combat or not, they often come out of it broken people.

Why is this?

Is it the techniques of breaking the trainee down and rebuilding them used in basic training?
Or something else?

For me it seems that basic training closely equates with the kind of brainwashing techniques used by cult organisations, this combined with the lack of after-care when people leave, seems to leave a lot of people broken shells of their former selves.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-04-22 19:52:32)

Docjones
Member
+7|5956|Connecticut
inb4flaming
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6382|'Murka

I've known military people all my life and I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken". I've met many I would describe as "driven", "motivated", "goal-oriented", "perfectionist", "detail-oriented", "honorable", and "selfless". But never "broken".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6592|London, England
I don't know, I hear so many horror stories these days. Especially when I tell people I'm gonna join up, I told my dad recently, he said he'll let me do what I want, but he told me how a friend of his lost her son in the Falklands. Which, well, you can understand why his position would be that he wouldn't want me to join up, even if it's the Air Force.

I've met a fair amount of vets in real life and online, they seemed normal to me.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina
My grandfather was more shaken by war itself than by the training.

You might be attributing too much to training and not enough to war itself.  Of course, he was part of a hit squad that would sneak into German lands and blow up infrastructure and barracks.  When death is that up close and personal, it's bound to leave a mark.

Nevertheless, he remains one of the wiser people I've known.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6416|The Land of Scott Walker
War is hell and always has been.  It's bound to have a profound effect on any human being.  Each warrior handles it differently.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6737|Cambridge (UK)
Well, it could well be that I've only ever met the fucked up ones. But I find that hard to believe.

Also, I can understand how people come out of war fucked up - but what about those that have never seen combat?

I've seen people who have never seen a day of combat who have come out of service only to head straight into the gutter, unable to find work, unable to maintain a relationship, unable to exist without someone in authority telling them what to do and when to do it.
imortal
Member
+240|6636|Austin, TX

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

...is how it totally fucks people up.

I've known numerous ex-military people in my time and, whether they've seen combat or not, they invariably come out of it broken people.

Why is this?

Is it the techniques of breaking the trainee down and rebuilding them used in basic training?
Or something else?

For me it seems that basic training closely equates with the kind of brainwashing techniques used by cult organisations, this combined with the lack of after-care when people leave, seems to leave a lot of people broken shells of their former selves.
I AM one of those ex-military people, and I do not think I am broken.  I do have a few bits of what my fiancee calls PTSD, but it is so minor it goes unnoticed (I can not stand large crowds, and I get very anxious when near ariel fireworks).  Few few of the veterens I know (and I know an awful lot of them) are what I would call "broken."

And, as to my... quirks.  Everyone develops some behavior quirks when going through life, especially though major events.
Laika
Member
+75|5915
I have an ex-military uncle who is very successful. I guess it depends on the person.
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6539|Mountains of NC

first off ........ theres no " ex " only former ......... we will always be a solider or airman or sailor or MARINE


now toward your statement ... I can't speak for those you have meet but I've seen some hard times and lived through it and it hasn't broken me

now they do break you down in bootcamp but they build you to be better (or at least they do a good job at trying )



I'm a better person now then I was before going in .. ie discipline, respect, responsibility, character, morals (some ), courage, patriotism, honor



















after re-reading the OP ....... are you reffering to after they have served and are back to living a civilans life bc if you are then possible yes but thats broad statement


when I got out ... I was/am very hard and strict to civilans just bc I'm use to the military way, I give an order I expect speediness and the ability to do it right the first time ......... well things are different then that in the real world

I"ll never shake off being a Marine but I have to somewhat learn to adapt to living a civilans life





they do give us classes to ease us back into civilan life but its waste

Last edited by SEREMAKER (2008-04-22 18:53:34)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|6624|USA
I'd love to see all the 'numerous' people you've met who are broken. Even if they are as mangled as you claim them to be, I'd still venture they represent a scant percentage of the military. I've meet a few who I think might be the kind you're attempting to refer to. They aren't broken, and is wasn't the military that made them who they are.

I've met more broken down rejects from the civilian world. Far more.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6737|Cambridge (UK)

SEREMAKER wrote:

after re-reading the OP ....... are you reffering to after they have served and are back to living a civilans life bc if you are then possible yes but thats broad statement


when I got out ... I was/am very hard and strict to civilans just bc I'm use to the military way, I give an order I expect speediness and the ability to do it right the first time ......... well things are different then that in the real world

I"ll never shake off being a Marine but I have to somewhat learn to adapt to living a civilans life
Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to.

And, I'm not saying everybody that comes out of the military is like that - my Dad is ex-RAF and he's not what I would call 'broken' in any way.
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|6624|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

And, I'm not saying everybody that comes out of the military is like that - my Dad is ex-RAF and he's not what I would call 'broken' in any way.
Exactly. So why do you love the way it "fucks up" everybody.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6737|Cambridge (UK)

R0lyP0ly wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

And, I'm not saying everybody that comes out of the military is like that - my Dad is ex-RAF and he's not what I would call 'broken' in any way.
Exactly. So why do you love the way it "fucks up" everybody.
1. Ever heard of something called 'sarcasm'?
2. Where did I say it fucks up everybody?
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6539|Mountains of NC

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

after re-reading the OP ....... are you referring to after they have served and are back to living a civilans life bc if you are then possible yes but thats broad statement


when I got out ... I was/am very hard and strict to civilans just bc I'm use to the military way, I give an order I expect speediness and the ability to do it right the first time ......... well things are different then that in the real world

I"ll never shake off being a Marine but I have to somewhat learn to adapt to living a civilans life
Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to.

And, I'm not saying everybody that comes out of the military is like that - my Dad is ex-RAF and he's not what I would call 'broken' in any way.
its hard to transition back to civilan life ............. especially if you just got back from deployment


I wouldn't say that they are " broken" but they are just trying to cope with there surroundings


its actual alot easier living life for a military personal or a former military personal to stay away from the real world ( to me )



for me I found it easier bc I didn't have to worry about if I'm going to get paid, I didn't have to worry about getting somewhere on time (bc we are always early) ....... in a combat I found life easier, then living it now as a civlian
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
ThaReaper
Banned
+410|6610
My dad has been in war all of his life and he hasn't changed one bit. He's still his same ol' funny self. He gets the list next week to find out whether or not he made CW5. I haven't ever seen anyone from the military "broken" when they retire and I've been around the military my whole life. It's just your lifestyle I think and what you're used to, but I'm not really sure because I haven't experienced it first hand.
R0lyP0ly
Member
+161|6624|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

R0lyP0ly wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

And, I'm not saying everybody that comes out of the military is like that - my Dad is ex-RAF and he's not what I would call 'broken' in any way.
Exactly. So why do you love the way it "fucks up" everybody.
1. Ever heard of something called 'sarcasm'?
2. Where did I say it fucks up everybody?
1. It's my second language.
2. The first line of the OP.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6737|Cambridge (UK)

R0lyP0ly wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

R0lyP0ly wrote:


Exactly. So why do you love the way it "fucks up" everybody.
1. Ever heard of something called 'sarcasm'?
2. Where did I say it fucks up everybody?
1. It's my second language.
2. The first line of the OP.
OK, 'invariably' was the wrong word to use - OP changed.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6685|US
British v US military could be a factor...
I haven't seen many "broken" US soldiers.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6382|'Murka

Based on your interchange with SEREMAKER, what you are describing isn't "broken" or being a "broken shell of their former selves". It's being a person who expects others to hold themselves to the same high standards the former military member holds themselves to (being on time, doing it right the first time, etc). Yes, it is different in the civilian world and sometimes the military mentality doesn't mesh well...but that's a far cry from being "broken".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6622|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

...is how it totally fucks people up.

I've known numerous ex-military people in my time and, whether they've seen combat or not, they often come out of it broken people.

Why is this?

Is it the techniques of breaking the trainee down and rebuilding them used in basic training?
Or something else?

For me it seems that basic training closely equates with the kind of brainwashing techniques used by cult organisations, this combined with the lack of after-care when people leave, seems to leave a lot of people broken shells of their former selves.
You, and this post are about as fucked up as a football bat.

By reading this post it is obvious you have no idea as to what the hell you are talking about, or are purposely trying to be an annoying little prick. I got even money on both.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6358
Ive never seen anyone who was broken from combat, I had 4 uncles in Vietnam, 2 Grandfathers in WWII(in both Europe and the Pacific), and a shitload of teachers who were waiting for some Red armor to come rolling through the Fulda Gap in Germany back in the 80's. None of them have even hinted at having any PTSD.


EDIT: I forgot to mention they all spoke highly of the military and how, besides the combat, it was a good experience for them, 2 of my teachers have actually went further to suggest that joining the military is a good idea, as like SEREMAKER said, the discipline, and one of them was highly adamant about the GI Bill, it got him through college.

Last edited by Commie Killer (2008-04-23 11:04:10)

tuckergustav
...
+1,590|5884|...

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Well, it could well be that I've only ever met the fucked up ones. But I find that hard to believe.

Also, I can understand how people come out of war fucked up - but what about those that have never seen combat?

I've seen people who have never seen a day of combat who have come out of service only to head straight into the gutter, unable to find work, unable to maintain a relationship, unable to exist without someone in authority telling them what to do and when to do it.
Did you know these people before AND after?  Do you really think you can make this type of deduction without having known what type of person they were before?
...
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|5907

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

...is how it totally fucks people up.

I've known numerous ex-military people in my time and, whether they've seen combat or not, they often come out of it broken people.

Why is this?

Is it the techniques of breaking the trainee down and rebuilding them used in basic training?
Or something else?

For me it seems that basic training closely equates with the kind of brainwashing techniques used by cult organisations, this combined with the lack of after-care when people leave, seems to leave a lot of people broken shells of their former selves.
Yes, I'd sure be broke if I were a Taliban/terrorist/whatever and I knew the US AF could rape my sorry ass without me evening knowing. Or how about having my friend next to me have his head blown off by a USMC Scout Sniper.

/end of sarcasm-joke

I don't know anybody who serves, or has served that's "Broken". If anything, they're better nicer people, and a shit load more succesful, and I look foward to becoming a Marine!
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6194|Escea

RAIMIUS wrote:

British v US military could be a factor...
I haven't seen many "broken" US soldiers.
There was a few incidents a while back of former British troops being involved in some pretty major crimes, one who went complete psycho and murdered his family, but in the grand scheme there are a miniscule number who end up like that. I've met a good number of soldiers, one was a para who came to talk with us on Industry day, he'd seen a good deal of action and seemed perfectly normal, very straightforward and joked with us a lot.

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