blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6637
University student Susan Crane of Auburn got an unexpected emotional response Tuesday when she laid out her art project of U.S. flags on the floor of the Olsen Student Center.

Her purpose was to find out how people felt about Old Glory, and her gauge was whether they would walk around them or on them.

Veteran Charles Bennett of Farmington sat on one to protect it from being walked on. Other veterans and students asked Crane to pick them up, saying it was disrespectful and desecrating.

https://www.sunjournal.com/photos/2008/04/16/261229-58533f.jpg

Crane, 40, a senior majoring in education, had placed large and small flags on the floor in a zig-zag pattern that created a path through the main corridor.

"I did a lot of research surrounding the flag," she said, before deciding to do the project.

"My purpose was to figure out how people felt about the flag and gave them a choice to walk around it. And then what it really became is our First Amendment that everybody has a choice to say what they believe. I expected it to be controversial but not as controversial as it has become."

The project was not an easy choice for her, she said.

"I really had a hard time putting the flags on the floor. I'm a conservative Republican, and I come from a military family," she said. "I do believe in the flag as a symbol of freedom and what our country stands for. I first thought I could put paper under the flags but it was a safety hazard. I still really have not come to terms that the flags are on the floor. So that bothered me. I understand veterans fought in the war, and they died for our freedom. Other people have the choice to feel how they would interpret it."

here is the video of it


What would you do if the flag was on the ground and preventing you from going somewhere would you jump over it? lets say there were couple of flags in front of the bathroom would you hop over it or just step on it?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

I would pick it up and put it elsewhere, to be properly disposed of.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6365|Kyiv, Ukraine
The only thing I could think while watching the video was "Wow, look at all the fat university students..."

Been in Eastern Europe so long, I forgot what fat co-eds looked like.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6282|Éire
Get over it...

https://www.futureofthebook.org/sivavaidhyanathan/archives/flag1.jpg
https://plutoniumblond.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/rkd2.jpg
https://www.webundies.com/images/fbb016.jpg
https://eats.beloblog.com/archives/American%20flag%20sugar%20cookies.JPG
https://www.paratoys.com/vipergb/upload/p1164555489.jpg
https://www.tamarackwv.com/shared/content/product_objects/productimage/24488-c.jpg
https://www.smalldogclothing.com/images/E001.jpg
https://www.mymodelships.com/product_images/pid_4265_10.jpg
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

That's a bit different than putting the flag on the floor where it can be walked upon.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-04-16 11:30:16)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6613|London, England

FEOS wrote:

That's a bit different than putting the flag on the floor where it can be walked upon.
What about when you see a Bikini Clad women in a bikini-american flag


HELL YEAH AMIRITE?











But I thought you guys were Jesus loving types? Isn't that desecrating the flag with adultery etc..

Wait

Hypocritical? In MY America?

You guys take the flag business way too seriously. I'd expect it from places like China and the Middle East though, but not America, NOT AMERICA YOU GUYS = FUN

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-04-16 11:41:33)

FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5906|Glendale, CA
The point was to see if people would walk on or around them.  The flags were not placed in the manner of throwing them on the ground and saying fuck you America.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6613|London, England
Those aren't even real American flags, look at the stars on it. There's like 4.

Also, he's SITTING on the fucking flag. That's worse than walking over it, isn't it?

Or, you see what I'm getting to here? Everyone has a difference perception of what is offensive and what's not, so before you guys go crazy over Muslims disliking various things, remember that you're not so far off yourselves...
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6519|Portland, OR USA
pretty clear to me.  No, it's not wikipedia.

I understand the academic curiosity that lead to the experiment as well as the negative public response really.  I'd say keep them off the ground.

As for the litany of pics of the flag in other such states of disrespect, that doesn't do anything except establish a pattern of mass ignorance.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6483|Northern California
I'd walk on them.  I am aware of proper flag etiquette and have even had flag pole duty on occasion.  I'm also aware that I have zero reason to believe my patriotism is diminished if I stepped on, urinated on, or threw up on a flag on the ground (in a hallway of a school).  It is many things to many people.  I used to get quite emotional seeing our flag (driving through nevada on the way to or from Utah and seeing gi-normous flags along I-80), I even regularly posted a large flag on our balcony in a couple apartments i've lived in in year's past..
https://img73.imageshack.us/img73/674/bwcjcamericanadm3.jpg

I have no doubt there are heartfelt and deeply personal feelings the flag has for others, others who have been fighting other flags (and flagless enemies), or who have not seen their flag as they lay in imprisonment in warzones, etc.  One need only see "flags of our fathers" or "saving private ryan" to realize it's far reaching triggers.  But when one group who feels about it one way attempts to compel others to feel that way when they don't or can't, it goes against the flag's represented purpose.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6437|The Land of Scott Walker

blademaster wrote:

What would you do if the flag was on the ground and preventing you from going somewhere would you jump over it? lets say there were couple of flags in front of the bathroom would you hop over it or just step on it?
I would pick it up and dispose of it per flag etiquette.  My grandfather fought under that flag during WW2 and taught me to respect the flag.  To honor his service, service of all members of the military, and the ultimate sacrifice of many, I respect the flag.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6827|Kubra, Damn it!

blademaster wrote:

"I really had a hard time putting the flags on the floor. I'm a conservative Republican, and I come from a military family," she said.
Shut the f@ck up, you stupid bitch. I'm so tired of these ignorant neocons thinking they corner the market on patriotism. Guess what, I'm a liberal Democrat and I wouldn't have put the flag on the ground in the first place. Since when does strict adherence to one narrow way of thinking mean you're more American than other people. Isn't it all about having the freedom to believe what you want? At least it used to be.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Since when does "conservative Republican" equate to "ignorant neocon"?

The neocons in power are anything but conservative Republicans.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
chittydog
less busy
+586|6827|Kubra, Damn it!

FEOS wrote:

Since when does "conservative Republican" equate to "ignorant neocon"?

The neocons in power are anything but conservative Republicans.
There is a difference. A conservative Republican believes in right wing ideals and supports the Republican party. Although I frequently don't agree with them, they have the right to believe as they wish. An ignorant neocon believes that proclaiming herself a convservative Republican makes her better or more patriotic than others.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6483|Northern California

FEOS wrote:

Since when does "conservative Republican" equate to "ignorant neocon"?

The neocons in power are anything but conservative Republicans.
He's calling the student an ignorant neocon, and rightfully so since she apparently believes republicans corner the market on patriotism.

I for one not only agree with that statement but would add that I have become LESS impassioned towards patriotic "symbols" because of their widespread use by said republicans (yep, its just them) to use and abuse to garner votes, money, favoritism, fear, false sense of pride, etc, etc.

I hung my flag proudly, before 9/11, and stopped probably in 2002 sometimes as I got to seeing it's meaning shift thanks to certain groups of angry white men.  I especially love hearing assclowns like Bill Kristol and other neocon tools rip on Obama for not wearing his flag lapel pin..because as ANYONE (on Fox) KNOWS, wearing a flag lapel pin is patriotic and every presidential candidate should have one!!  (yet they don't wear them when they criticize Obama and stutter and stammer and change the subject).
https://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/bushflag.jpg

https://www.green-ginger.net/blog/archives/images/bush_flag_doormat.jpg

Saw these yesterday here somewhere..good pics showing what that flag means to the neocon-in-chief.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-04-16 12:50:52)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6282|Éire
Man, you guys take your flag so fucking seriously. Jeez, relax. Fair enough on the issue of burning, this is an explicit attack on the flag and what it represents (the country) but walking on it? Displaying it incorrectly? ...are you allowed to look at it sideways?
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6641

What people get away with calling art these days is ridiculous, and an insult to artists that died in poverty painting decent pictures.



chittydog
less busy
+586|6827|Kubra, Damn it!

ghettoperson wrote:

What people get away with calling art these days is ridiculous, and an insult to artists that died in poverty painting decent pictures.



Agreed. I might be more open to this if it was a sociology or psychology experiment, rather than some lazy-ass "art" project. I know some incredible artists who can't sell a picture. This fool just threw some flags on the ground to get noticed. Not art at all, IMHO.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

chittydog wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Since when does "conservative Republican" equate to "ignorant neocon"?

The neocons in power are anything but conservative Republicans.
There is a difference. A conservative Republican believes in right wing ideals and supports the Republican party. Although I frequently don't agree with them, they have the right to believe as they wish. An ignorant neocon believes that proclaiming herself a convservative Republican makes her better or more patriotic than others.
Fair enough. I agree. +1
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6282|Éire

chittydog wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

What people get away with calling art these days is ridiculous, and an insult to artists that died in poverty painting decent pictures.



Agreed. I might be more open to this if it was a sociology or psychology experiment, rather than some lazy-ass "art" project. I know some incredible artists who can't sell a picture. This fool just threw some flags on the ground to get noticed. Not art at all, IMHO.
That's the sad thing about art these days...there's no craft in it anymore, it's just ideas. Once upon a time you had to be able to paint or sculpt now all you need is a controversial idea.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6354|Vancouver
Perhaps it is because I have no patriotism whatsoever, but I've always thought that the entire issue that some people have with flags being on the ground is a bit much, a little too emotional. I can understand nationalism, and the symbolism of the flag, but it's a tad ridiculous.

As in line with our other flag thread, it comes down to property rights. I would not walk on them if I believed that they belonged to someone else, who would not want me to walk on the flag in the situation that I damage it. However, were the flag left there without any property rights and did not impede my steps (a flag might do that unless it were painted onto the floor), I see no reason to go around.

Braddock raises a good point: Are you allowed to look at it sideways?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Drakef wrote:

Braddock raises a good point: Are you allowed to look at it sideways?
Yes. But not cross-eyed.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

an unexpected emotional response
DER...

If she had such a 'hard time' doing it, then why did she do it in the first place? Look at that crutch guy having to go around.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6354|Vancouver

FEOS wrote:

Drakef wrote:

Braddock raises a good point: Are you allowed to look at it sideways?
Yes. But not cross-eyed.
What about blind people?
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6282|Éire

Drakef wrote:

Perhaps it is because I have no patriotism whatsoever, but I've always thought that the entire issue that some people have with flags being on the ground is a bit much, a little too emotional. I can understand nationalism, and the symbolism of the flag, but it's a tad ridiculous.

As in line with our other flag thread, it comes down to property rights. I would not walk on them if I believed that they belonged to someone else, who would not want me to walk on the flag in the situation that I damage it. However, were the flag left there without any property rights and did not impede my steps (a flag might do that unless it were painted onto the floor), I see no reason to go around.

Braddock raises a good point: Are you allowed to look at it sideways?
This is my take on things: I love my country and my national identity but I order things in terms of importance thus...

1. Myself
2. Girlfriend, family & friends
3. County
4. Country

There's no point crying over your flag being tarnished or any of that nonsense (we've gone over this a hundred times in the other related threads). I've grown up looking at my flag being burned by loyalists on the six o clock news every year around marching season, you soon realise there's no point crying and whinging about it all the time.

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