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nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|5399|New Haven, CT

SenorToenails wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Isn't that part of the deal, to teach them to care.  It is easy to teach someone what to do, but much harder to care about what they do.
What sort of punishment should be applied to these parents then?
That is the only problem. You want to punish their faces off, but them you realize that while the majority of delinquent morons such as these kids are the result of inadequate parenting, there is always the chance that the parent is intending to do good, but the kids is just naturally bad. You can't really distinguish between these two easily, especially in a legal setting, where proving a parent's guilt for disciplinary neglect would be almost impossible.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|5205|North Tonawanda, NY

nukchebi0 wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Isn't that part of the deal, to teach them to care.  It is easy to teach someone what to do, but much harder to care about what they do.
What sort of punishment should be applied to these parents then?
That is the only problem. You want to punish their faces off, but them you realize that while the majority of delinquent morons such as these kids are the result of inadequate parenting, there is always the chance that the parent is intending to do good, but the kids is just naturally bad. You can't really distinguish between these two easily, especially in a legal setting, where proving a parent's guilt for disciplinary neglect would be almost impossible.
Once a person knows the difference between right and wrong, their bad acts reflect on them.  It's easy to sit back and blame their parents, but the fault is really on these teens.  Their parents should feel bad, but the people who do wrong should take the punishment.

I would feel differently if these were preteen kids.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|5205|North Tonawanda, NY

LividBovine wrote:

Not sure, but in some way the culture needs to be changed.  It seems that these days parents are quick to blame everything but themselves. 

I don't know if they should be directly punished, but the wrath of the community should not necessarily be directed at these kids.
It also seems that people are too quick to blame anything but the kids themselves.  Blame ends up on the media.

Look at this case-- MySpace is to blame, apparently.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|5455|MN
That is always a problem, trying to find where the true blame is.  Is it soley on the offending child, on the parents, or some percentage in-between?

Parents have to take responsablity for their kids actions.  Period.

I have 3 kids and each one has a different tendancy towards doing the right thing.  We have to put a LOT more effort into our 7 year old than the other 2. 

Just because someone intends to do good, doesn't mean they actually did good. 

How many parents would say they didn't care how their children turned out?  Not many.  The problem is people in general have gotten used to blaming something else for their own failures.  It has to stop. 

Not everyone is a good parent naturally.  In fact very few are.  Just pay attention to families out in public.  Watch how the parents interact with their children.  It is very disturbing sometimes.

The key point I am trying to make is that parents have a DUTY to do ALL they can raise their children to be good citizens.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|5399|New Haven, CT

SenorToenails wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

What sort of punishment should be applied to these parents then?
That is the only problem. You want to punish their faces off, but them you realize that while the majority of delinquent morons such as these kids are the result of inadequate parenting, there is always the chance that the parent is intending to do good, but the kids is just naturally bad. You can't really distinguish between these two easily, especially in a legal setting, where proving a parent's guilt for disciplinary neglect would be almost impossible.
Once a person knows the difference between right and wrong, their bad acts reflect on them.  It's easy to sit back and blame their parents, but the fault is really on these teens.  Their parents should feel bad, but the people who do wrong should take the punishment.

I would feel differently if these were preteen kids.
I agree that the parents are way less at blame for kids at the age in the story, as opposed to nine-year-olds. Younger kids think less independently, so any violent action was probably more spawned by direct parental influence than in a teenager's actions. That isn't to say, though, parenting does not affect the development of a child. Poor parenting can be blamed partially for the laziness and immaturity of many children. While the teenagers are at a naturally rebellious phase when independent actions and thought become prevalent, it isn't fair to them to blame their poor actions entirely on them--provided, of course, that they were the product of incompetent guardians.

To edit: You obviously do have to blame the kids; don't get the conception I think they are victims. As I granted, they have independent thought that cannot be entirely altered or negated by poor parenting.

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2008-04-09 01:55:39)

SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|5205|North Tonawanda, NY

LividBovine wrote:

That is always a problem, trying to find where the true blame is.  Is it soley on the offending child, on the parents, or some percentage in-between?

Parents have to take responsablity for their kids actions.  Period.

I have 3 kids and each one has a different tendancy towards doing the right thing.  We have to put a LOT more effort into our 7 year old than the other 2. 

Just because someone intends to do good, doesn't mean they actually did good. 

How many parents would say they didn't care how their children turned out?  Not many.  The problem is people in general have gotten used to blaming something else for their own failures.  It has to stop. 

Not everyone is a good parent naturally.  In fact very few are.  Just pay attention to families out in public.  Watch how the parents interact with their children.  It is very disturbing sometimes.

The key point I am trying to make is that parents have a DUTY to do ALL they can raise their children to be good citizens.
Indeed, indeed.  I hate it when people say "Blame the parents! Blame the media!" and don't want to blame the kids.  I probably misunderstood you, and I apologize for that.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|5455|MN

SenorToenails wrote:

Indeed, indeed.  I hate it when people say "Blame the parents! Blame the media!" and don't want to blame the kids.  I probably misunderstood you, and I apologize for that.
I would never say just blame the parents, there is a slow shift of responsability that happens over time. 

I also believe that there is never a full shift.  I do think the parents retain some blame throughout thier childs life.  I feel that way about my kids anyways.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,610|5696|London, England
Happens everyday here in Chavington
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|5455|MN

Mek-Izzle wrote:

Happens everyday here in Chavington
From what I have gathered, I would hate these Chav's you speak of.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+765|5760|United States of America

nukchebi0 wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Isn't that part of the deal, to teach them to care.  It is easy to teach someone what to do, but much harder to care about what they do.
What sort of punishment should be applied to these parents then?
That is the only problem. You want to punish their faces off, but them you realize that while the majority of delinquent morons such as these kids are the result of inadequate parenting, there is always the chance that the parent is intending to do good, but the kids is just naturally bad. You can't really distinguish between these two easily, especially in a legal setting, where proving a parent's guilt for disciplinary neglect would be almost impossible.
Speaking of their faces, does anyone else think that all these people in mugshots have very long, horselike faces?
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|5635

S.Lythberg wrote:

wtf is wrong with my generation?
This is the answer

CameronPoe wrote:

Thankfully Christianity and organised religion is dying out among Western Europeans and it has been long overdue. This growing absence of faith is a mark of development. The church only has a hold over a handful of EU countries now - namely Malta, Ireland, Poland, Italy, Spain and Portugal - and the influence they have is waning fast, especially in Ireland.
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|5555|Somewhere else

Because Parents are too busy to raise thier kids.

The TV is sucha great babysitter.  Let them zone out peacefully in front of the tube.  Saturate thier impressionable minds with war, murder, violence, celebrity fetishism, trends, fashion, vanity, and the bullshit notion of the importance of social status.  THERE IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM. RIGHT THERE.

HOWEVER it's not TV's fault, it's the influence of tv, which shouldn't matter if there wasnt THE LACK OF influence from GOOD parenting.

And as we sink into an are where a fucked up generation has kids, the kids are more fucked up than the parents.

The blame is the parents, the human race has never been pretty, and it's always been the family that shows the children what's right, what happened, what's wrong.  Now you have disinterested parents, leaving the kids open to the world, unfiltered, unexplained to them, and no one there to tell them about what is wrong and right with what they are seeing.

That's the god damn key.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|5837

no worries.  its fox news so it didnt really happen.
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|5555|Somewhere else

usmarine wrote:

no worries.  its fox news so it didnt really happen.
yes. because  fox portrays news from a biased, right wing point of view, that means the core news bit is not true.

*sigh* can we stop with this, people?

1"fox is biased"
2"oh so you're saying they are nazi racists who lie"
1"no, i am saying fox is biased"
2"fine whatever you liberal terrorist loving hippie"
1"but Im no where near liberal"
3"oh so you are a neocon muslim hating brown baby killing piece of shit"
1"never said that"
4"lol wut?"

c'mon people can we stop taking people's statements a completely distorting them, just so we can turn it around with some overly dramatic spin and reason with an obsurd intentional misinterpretation ?

it would be annoying if it wasn't so silly.
Machine_Madness
Madness has now come over me
+20|5512|Brisbane, Australia
wow....

I don't want to offend anyone from US here but we have a saying here, "Only in America".

Probably the closest thing to this story we have had is some 11 year old kid kicked a teacher in the stomach once and somehow killed the teacher.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5486|'Murka

Machine_Madness wrote:

wow....

I don't want to offend anyone from US here but we have a saying here, "Only in America".

Probably the closest thing to this story we have had is some 11 year old kid kicked a teacher in the stomach once and somehow killed the teacher.
We say that here too.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Nyte
Oldschool BF2S
+535|5827|Toronto, ON
These kids look like they grew up in a poor-ass trailer park.  Talk about not-taking-out-the-trash.

Someone tell these kids to get a cosmetician, or at least a house.
Alpha as fuck.
twiistaaa
Member
+87|5744|mexico

Machine_Madness wrote:

wow....

I don't want to offend anyone from US here but we have a saying here, "Only in America".

Probably the closest thing to this story we have had is some 11 year old kid kicked a teacher in the stomach once and somehow killed the teacher.
well if you watched 60 minutes tonight it did a story on this happening in australia.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5486|'Murka

I guess every country has its "chavs", now doesn't it? But "only in America"...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Marinejuana
local
+415|5660|Seattle
every time you guys read an article about some statistical outliers doing something violent, u all get on here denouncing your culture and trying to reduce all of us to these rare atrocities (that probably none of you have ever personally witnessed). its downright stupid. for every hundred articles that go to print about people acting crazy, you get maybe one about a person doing something good, even tho affiliative actions outnumber cruelty by orders of magnitude in normal human interaction. its to the point where many of you think that the media actually represents society, when it only represents the selected, most extreme, instances of our behavior that they can pen or snap in a photo. if a scientist carried out a thousand trials for an experiment but then only wrote papers about a handful of outlying data points cherry picked from his body of data, he would be discredited as a scientist and lose his job. im not suggesting we uphold the exact same standards for the media, but we could at least refrain from making retarded generalizations based on their obvious cherry picking. academia (chomsky, et al.) has known for decades that the media selectively "filters" stories and subsequently our perception of world events. if you are the type that likes to read the news and try to take a little moral lesson from each article, then you are surrendering your own freedom to experience the world as it actually exists. u accept a false piecemeal representation of reality on which to draw your conclusions, rather than living your life and judging people based on your experiences.

it worries me that we actually risk creating a positive feedback loop based on the media's selective representation of reality and our chosen behavior. if the media succeeds in convincing the average person (like you guys in this forum, disowning your culture because of a handful of crazy teenagers in florida) that people are inherently dangerous and unpredictable, then some individuals (like teenagers) might internalize this message and actually behave violently when they would have, otherwise, been socialized like normal human beings. the media's selection of real "news stories" is far worse for our psyche than violent games or shows. at least when violent media is presented as fiction, we have the opportunity to interpret it that way. when the fabricated violent media is presented as fact on our news entertainment shows, we risk distorting our sense of self as people and members of our culture.

if youre so unlucky that u get beaten or killed by a crazy band of teenagers, then as far as im concerned, u are a martyr for freedom.
Black Vaine
Member
+43|5697|K-Town, Sweden

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

'All the children are insane.'
The Doors - The End?
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|5602|Portland, OR USA
...


and things like THIS are why I favor the death penalty even in minors.  Even if they're "rehabilitated" they're still clearly too idiotic to breed and certainly not capable of intelligently functioning on their own let alone being responsible for another life.  Nature and nurture covered ... yeah, no reason for these kids to exist.

Yes I realize such a decision is not for me or any real corporeal body to determine ... but ffs why do we have to support people like this???
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+500|2795
help. help. some guy I know is a victim.
Devious licks[a] (also known as diabolical licks[4] or dastardly licks[5]) are a viral 2021 TikTok trend in which American students post videos of themselves stealing, vandalizing, (or in some cases merely pretending to) or showing off items they stole primarily from their schools, typically from bathrooms.[6][7] The trend has resulted in the arrests of many students across the United States.[8][6][9][10] It also allegedly spread to some schools in Canada and Latin America.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devious_licks

My friend made a fancy reusable hall pass using a university lanyard. The lanyard was expensive official NCAA merchandise. The kids stole the lanyard but left the hall pass.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

tiktok wasn't even out 13 years ago? and a vandalism/theft meme != beating the crap out of someone for internet points? why did you archaeology this thread just to post that?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+500|2795

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

tiktok wasn't even out 13 years ago? and a vandalism/theft meme != beating the crap out of someone for internet points? why did you archaeology this thread just to post that?
I would have preferred this thread but that is one nasty OP.
https://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=4261667251
I am so glad that guy has been banned.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

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