BF2S Forums A question for anyone who believes in god

I know that god exists... because i should have been dead by now...

Beliving in God just in case is a nice premise and its called Pascals Wager:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager

As for living forever, if a man believed in God before he figured out he is immortal he would thank God for his immortality. He would see it as a Gods gift. If a man was atheist and figured out he is immortal he would just be a more happy atheist.

Stingray24 wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

... if you were to have the ability of eternal life, and in essence eternal youth, then how would your opinion on god change? Would you deny his presence since the natural human urge to fill the void that is death has now been eliminated or, would you continue to worship him/her/it as a creator instead of an over watch for the dead as well?

Please be specific and thorough in your arguments/answers.

Since everyone dies I'm not sure why your friend had such difficulty responding to your retort.   

As to your hypothetical:
No, my opinion of God would not change.  I would continue to worship because my belief is based on faith and the truth of the Bible.

so do you believe that EVERYTHING in the bible is real?

Even immortals may occasionally get smashed into paste by falling rocks or something therefor making immortality impossible.

So even the immortal would contemplate death and seek to answer the unanswerable, like us mere mortals.

HurricaИe wrote:

Be careful if you ever do become immortal, some angry spartans might put your name to the test.

300 of them to be specific XD

I don't believe in God and never have.
Contemplating death is scary as hell, seeing as to me it's just a void but that's not enough to convert me.

Being immortal would change nothing about my beliefs, but I predict I'd be happier and generally more reckless.

I think if humans achieved immortality (which is something that science-fiction writers have been audaciously predicting for decades)- then I do seriously believe that religion and its influence on our everyday culture and way of thinking will dramatically recede. You have to acknowledge that one of the fundamental reasons why people turn to religion as a way of life and a source of answers is because of our in-built fear of death, and the unknown. Convincing ourselves that there is a land of milk and honey, where we can meet all of our lost loved ones again, is a huge illusion that keeps a lot of people going on through the anxieties of what would be an otherwise torturous existentialist existence.

Bear in mind that the concept of immortality (or extremely long life for that matter) isn't entirely a matter of science-fiction and fantasy writing. There are actual Cambridge biologists and world experts who are systematically trying to (and succeeding in some cases) to tackle the various forms of cell degradation and decay. I believe there are roughly around 8 biological processes that occur within every human cell/tissue that causes 'aging' and eventual death. They can slow/stop some of them already... I think .

eaglecorps wrote:

What if is a non-Christians only argument, and it fails everytime. You can't have eternal life without God so there.

How can you not have eternal life without god? Have you even thought of or explored the possibilities that await you?

As for everyone else great responses so far but, I would like to hear from more of the monotheist.

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I had a serious discussion with a fellow classmate on the issues of religion, as he has been trying to convert me for quite some time now, and my friend made an interesting statement. "Shouldn't you believe in god just in case, for when you die?" To which I retorted "What if I were to live forever?" This left him in shock. The thought of this left him without an argument.

For starters, was your friend suggesting the 'just in case' question sincerely, or with a little gest having already tried "converting" you of the sincere things already and using the 'just in case' as a last ditch effort?  The reason I ask is because if the 'just in case' question was what your friend truly feels, then it doesn't look like he/she is "converted" at all.  You either know or you don't know the things you profess, live, practice, etc.

As to your "what if I were to live forever?" question, I'm a little baffled that someone, religious or not who posed the initial question, would be truly "shocked" or speechless.  My guess is your friend probably quietly threw in the towel with you and stopped trying to "convert" you.  I hope that makes sense.

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

So my question is this, if you were to have the ability of eternal life, and in essence eternal youth, then how would your opinion on god change? Would you deny his presence since the natural human urge to fill the void that is death has now been eliminated or, would you continue to worship him/her/it as a creator instead of an over watch for the dead as well?

Please be specific and thorough in your arguments/answers.

On eternal life.  It is guaranteed that you'll be "immortal" according to God's word.  Eternal life, is something else.  To make it simple, i'll explain it this way:

IMMORTALITY = upon being resurrected, your spirit takes up the glorified, perfected, undying version of your physical body.  It won't age, decay, or ever separate from your spirit again (like it did when you died).  Resurrection is a free gift to ALL people who come into this world and leave it.  THis is what many Christians consider salvation and why they say "you don't have to do anything to get 'saved'".  It's only HALF of the full salvation you can receive in the big plan.  Satan and his 'third of the host of heaven' denied their privilege to come to earth and take up bodies; also known as them giving up their "first estate."  They will not get resurrected and will remain in outer darkness upon the end of the world after the millenium and judgment are done...they will receive no glory and will no longer have effect on us (hence their aggressive abuse during our mortality here). 

ETERNAL LIFE = after resurrection, and upon being judged righteously enough to dwell in God's presense again, we will live in his presense for all eternity.  Those not found worthy (through their own choice..based on how they lived, learned, and refused their 'fair shot' at accepting the plan Jesus has for them), will not receive eternal life.  They'll still be resurrected and have a lesser degree of glory and live forever happily, they just won't do it with God and their Savior's presence.  Paul did say there were varying degrees of glory, just as the sun, moon, and stars differ in glory, so to will the resurrection of men be.



But I think you're talking about immortality here on earth.  In which case, it won't happen, can't happen, and therefore is not a conclusion that should frustrate anyone.  Adam and Eve, Cain, John the Beloved, and presumable other select individuals are the only ones who had/have immortality here on earth.  And if you were granted immortality (meaning your body would be "quickened" or changed to an immortal state), then that would still jive with God's plan (since it'd be Him who did it)..as you'd likely be a servant to him and "held" from the view of others where needed.  But that's another story.

I literally believe and know as well as I know ANYTHING, that there is truly a God in Heaven.  He is the father of all our spirits (making us literal brothers and sisters after the spirit).  I know he devised a plan to allow us to pass through mortality on this earth, be tried and tempted to prove ourselves worthy to return with him, having grown and become greater than we'd have been remaining with him in the first place.  It's an eternal plan of progression that we're on and this earth life is just a small, teenie part of it.  It's easy to see why non-believers are scared of death or have uncertainty about it.  Even some who profess to believe,who don't, get scared...until they "know."  I literally believe Jesus Christ was born on this earth of a mortal mother as explained in the bible, I believe and know he did what the bible says he did, I believe and know he had power to lay down his life, that he lived a sinless life thus qualifying him to be the sacrifical "lamb" he was, and he atoned for all of our sins by taking upon him all our sins, pains, sufferings, etc (in the garden of gethsemane), and he then voluntarily gave up his life on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice for us all, and then he took up his body again and was the first to resurrect, giving us all the ability to be resurrected as well.  I know these things independent of any preacher, pastor, teacher or earthly influence, and I'd never deny these things for anything.  I freely gave up 2 years of my life to share these things and I gained further "proof" that they are real as i witnessed countless Brazilians learning and knowing for themselves the things I know and changing their lives as well.

And one other thing, nobody can "convert" you.  Conversion is a personal, deep, private thing that happens between you and God through the Holy Ghost.  No man or woman has the power to change souls.  And once it's been done, it is truly a  soul changing thing stronger than any habit, life style, or worldly influence..it is something that becomes more "proven" than anything experienced by the other 5 senses.  This is how we can say things like "I know" and baffle the scientifically minded "smart guys" who think they're so smart! lol

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-03-24 11:03:01)

SenorToenails wrote:

Religion as an insurance policy is a bad attitude.  If god were truly omnipotent, he/she/it would know your true motives were less than virtuous, and your reserved seat in paradise would probably be in question.

Edit:  It is relevant to state that I am an agnostic and generally do not care if there is/was a god.

that really depends on what god you call your own.

yeah, I'd still believe. essentially what you're saying is that every single person who believes does so only because they fear death. either way, there's nothing to be afraid of, unless you don't believe, is the argument i believe your friend presented to you, correct?
the only people who believe in this manner are those who have been raised Christian or whatever but have begun to question their beliefs, or those who are like you.

as of yet, I've seen nothing definitive that says i should or shouldn't believe in god. Sure, we can apply Occam's Razor, but just because its simpler doesn't mean its true. (X+2)^2=X^2 +4 is easier math than X^2 +4X+4, but we all know the second is correct, right?

basically what I'm saying is i believe because i feel i should. when my gut says do something its usually right, after all.
Edit: Ironchef put this last line ^ to better words than me.

Last edited by Ender2309 (2008-03-24 11:34:13)

IRONCHEF wrote:

Those not found worthy (through their own choice..based on how they lived, learned, and refused their 'fair shot' at accepting the plan Jesus has for them), will not receive eternal life.  They'll still be resurrected and have a lesser degree of glory and live forever happily...

Many good points, but I have to disagree here.  Jesus specifically mentions the existence of hell multiple times in the Gospels and Revelation 20 describes the judgment of the dead.  The existence in there is anything but happy.

Reincarnation seems feasable. If you take into the account that the mass in the universe is constant and always has been. You can't just create new life out of nowhere. Assuming that things such as souls exist, it can't simply be removed or destroyed when a life passes away. It must, through some dimension that we can't see, propagate to another thing in the universe.

I don't know, I'm just trying to think of it scientifically. The fact that you can't create or destroy energy, and the fact that the matter in the universe is constant. Means that the number of living things in the universe could very well be constant. You might be getting mass extinction in one planet, whilst others are experiencing booms in populations. It's probably on such a scale, and within such a time period that we can't even imagine it. Maybe, just maybe there is some sort of higher thing controlling it all. Or who made the universe the well oiled machine that it is.

Well, that's what I think

Last edited by Mek-Izzle (2008-03-24 12:27:25)