IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California
Well, I saw the headline last night in the news and immediately considered it to be another shameless political salvo in the ongoing saga that is "presidential campaigning as usual."  So naturally I gave it as much attention as I did the affair scandal stirred in me...none.

headline

But then today, there was some interesting links floating around, and by golly, I think they have something!  Could it be?  Is it true?  Is there truly official US law suggesting that being born on US sovereign property at a US Military installation or embassy doesn't qualify as being born as a US Citizen in conjunction with the 14th amendment saying you have to be in order to be Preznit?

I'll report, you decide!

7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United
States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)
a. A U.S.-registered or documented ship on the high seas or in the exclusive economic
zone is not considered to be part of the United States. A child born on such a vessel does
not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth (Lam Mow v. Nagle, 24 F.2d
316 (9th Cir., 1928)).
b. A U.S.-registered aircraft outside U.S. airspace is not considered to be part of U.S.
territory. A child born on such an aircraft outside U.S. airspace does not acquire U.S.
citizenship by reason of the place of birth.
c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S.
diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the
14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the
jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.


Legitimate Source.

Now to be honest, I could care less.  If anything, it would be funny to see that psycho blow his lid being formally told he does not qualify as a presidential candidate.  I doubt he'd win anyway, but if he did, it would be fun to see the circus ensuing if this actual disqualification was debated.  If he does take office, then the 14th amendment has been blocked.  Then Arnold could run on the McCain precedent! lol  Oh the possibilities!  Madeline Albright could run too finally!

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-29 15:04:53)

FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5915|Glendale, CA
Oh boy!  No more McCain!
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6645
whats funny is that there is speculation that the mccain camp were the ones to have actually released this info.  it really isnt an issue, and they look good defending against it.
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6298|Bloomington Indiana
this reminds me of that family guy where peters mom tells him he's really an illegal alien from mexico...

id like to see where this pans out
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6488|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Something like this would have been researched before he even started a campaign.

Also the Canal Zone was a US protectorate, like Puerto Rico, or Guam.

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2008-02-29 15:15:01)

SgtSlutter
Banned
+550|6639|Amsterdam, NY

IRONCHEF wrote:

Now to be honest, I could care less.  If anything, it would be funny to see that psycho blow his lid being formally told he does not qualify as a presidential candidate.  I doubt he'd win anyway, but if he did, it would be fun to see the circus ensuing if this actual disqualification was debated.  If he does take office, then the 14th amendment has been blocked.  Then Arnold could run on the McCain precedent! lol  Oh the possibilities!  Madeline Albright could run too finally!
How is he a psycho exactly?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California

SgtSlauther wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Now to be honest, I could care less.  If anything, it would be funny to see that psycho blow his lid being formally told he does not qualify as a presidential candidate.  I doubt he'd win anyway, but if he did, it would be fun to see the circus ensuing if this actual disqualification was debated.  If he does take office, then the 14th amendment has been blocked.  Then Arnold could run on the McCain precedent! lol  Oh the possibilities!  Madeline Albright could run too finally!
How is he a psycho exactly?
He's unstable.  The dude gets pissed and freaks out on his staff, members of the senate/house, etc.  I also am convinced that he's delusional after his stroll through a Baghdad market.  If I were in the military, I'd have some words for that POS and his little photo op.  If I were the family of 6 merchants who were assassinated simply because they worked that market (by assassins wanting to counter the message of John McCain), I'd likewise want to share some words with him.  The senile old psycho needs to go.

Maybe Huckabee will play up this technicality...which has bite.  Legally, McCain simply can't be elected if the cited law is true..which it is.
SgtSlutter
Banned
+550|6639|Amsterdam, NY

IRONCHEF wrote:

SgtSlauther wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Now to be honest, I could care less.  If anything, it would be funny to see that psycho blow his lid being formally told he does not qualify as a presidential candidate.  I doubt he'd win anyway, but if he did, it would be fun to see the circus ensuing if this actual disqualification was debated.  If he does take office, then the 14th amendment has been blocked.  Then Arnold could run on the McCain precedent! lol  Oh the possibilities!  Madeline Albright could run too finally!
How is he a psycho exactly?
He's unstable.  The dude gets pissed and freaks out on his staff, members of the senate/house, etc.  I also am convinced that he's delusional after his stroll through a Baghdad market.  If I were in the military, I'd have some words for that POS and his little photo op.  If I were the family of 6 merchants who were assassinated simply because they worked that market (by assassins wanting to counter the message of John McCain), I'd likewise want to share some words with him.  The senile old psycho needs to go.

Maybe Huckabee will play up this technicality...which has bite.  Legally, McCain simply can't be elected if the cited law is true..which it is.
I dont think that makes him insane, but it would be pretty funny if huckabee got the nomination because of that Huckabee Colbert 08
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6337|Oregon
This would be hilarious...
I hope he does get ruled out.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6154|what

There's only one reason why the Governator can't run for President.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California
Well no, he's not legally insane that I know of.  My bad.  Call it a figure of speech, a quick quip used in place of a more thorough explanation.  I could just see him taking questions from the White House press corp some day and Helen Thompson asks the wrong question..and then McCain snaps, wraps his tie around his forehead, points at the press corp and screams "MOTARS ON THIS POSITION!!!  CONG IN THE OPEN!!  FIRE FOR EFFECT!! POPPING SMOKE NOW!"  as he throws his mic on the floor and ducks behind the podium.  Oh yeah, he'd do it.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6181

IRONCHEF wrote:

SgtSlauther wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Now to be honest, I could care less.  If anything, it would be funny to see that psycho blow his lid being formally told he does not qualify as a presidential candidate.  I doubt he'd win anyway, but if he did, it would be fun to see the circus ensuing if this actual disqualification was debated.  If he does take office, then the 14th amendment has been blocked.  Then Arnold could run on the McCain precedent! lol  Oh the possibilities!  Madeline Albright could run too finally!
How is he a psycho exactly?
He's unstable.  The dude gets pissed and freaks out on his staff, members of the senate/house, etc.  I also am convinced that he's delusional after his stroll through a Baghdad market.  If I were in the military, I'd have some words for that POS and his little photo op.  If I were the family of 6 merchants who were assassinated simply because they worked that market (by assassins wanting to counter the message of John McCain), I'd likewise want to share some words with him.  The senile old psycho needs to go.

Maybe Huckabee will play up this technicality...which has bite.  Legally, McCain simply can't be elected if the cited law is true..which it is.
Unstable?  Psycho? hmmm....the guy understands what the military is about more than any other candidate...he's been there and done that and many politicians visit Iraq...why is McCain an ass for doing the same?  I would rather have a candidate have the balls enough to go there and see what is going on himself than sitting back and riding the coat tails of your spouse. You also think McCain is unstable because you think he "freaks out" against everyone....show me proof of that...not rumors or what you believe is happening. McCain isn't afraid to ruffle people's feathers. He isn't afraid to speak his mind and it showed by pissing off a recent conservative talk show host that was trying to help his campaign. McCain at least is trying to work with both sides. So a strong personality, no non-sense guy is psycho?..LOL. I guess a strong women is a bitch too in your eyes. Seriously, he is running a solid campaign, I think he has represented himself well and we will see what happens.

Do I support McCain...not really...haven't really decided yet but your assumptions seem to border on rage against McCain for some reason.
SgtSlutter
Banned
+550|6639|Amsterdam, NY

IRONCHEF wrote:

Well no, he's not legally insane that I know of.  My bad.  Call it a figure of speech, a quick quip used in place of a more thorough explanation.  I could just see him taking questions from the White House press corp some day and Helen Thompson asks the wrong question..and then McCain snaps, wraps his tie around his forehead, points at the press corp and screams "MOTARS ON THIS POSITION!!!  CONG IN THE OPEN!!  FIRE FOR EFFECT!! POPPING SMOKE NOW!"  as he throws his mic on the floor and ducks behind the podium.  Oh yeah, he'd do it.
I'd support him just to see that on live television tbh
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6406|North Carolina
We need to amend that part of the Constitution anyway.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

It's too bad for their (and yours, apparently) that a child born to US citizens abroad is still considered a "natural-born" citizen. The status of the parents is the key factor in those cases, rather than the location of the birth.

Might want to read your own source.

It says:

Legitimate Source wrote:

(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under
which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This
rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in
the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have
changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also
changed.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-02-29 15:43:16)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Strngs012
Could I have 10,000 marbles please
+40|6419|Florida
Yeah , I remember seeing this a few years ago and mocking my mother-in-law saying she could never be president. She was born on a military installation in Japan.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6645

FEOS wrote:

It's too bad for their (and yours, apparently) that a child born to US citizens abroad is still considered a "natural-born" citizen. The status of the parents is the key factor in those cases, rather than the location of the birth.

Might want to read your own source.

It says:

Legitimate Source wrote:

(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under
which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This
rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in
the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have
changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also
changed.
wanna know something weird?  I was just looking into citizenship status about 3 days ago for I dont know what stupid reason and I read that same thing.  like the matrix.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California

FEOS wrote:

It's too bad for their (and yours, apparently) that a child born to US citizens abroad is still considered a "natural-born" citizen. The status of the parents is the key factor in those cases, rather than the location of the birth.

Might want to read your own source.

It says:

Legitimate Source wrote:

(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under
which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This
rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in
the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have
changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also
changed.
Yeah, I did read my own source, which says that being born outside the US on military or otherwise sovereign territory doesn't count "as far as the 14th amendment" is concerned.  There's no debate about him being a citizen by blood, but rather about being a potential presidential candidate.
iNeedUrFace4Soup
fuck it
+348|6547
Oh no! If he gets elected he will only do what is in the best interest of the Panama Canal Zone and not America!
https://i.imgur.com/jM2Yp.gif
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6406|North Carolina
Citizenship by birth makes more sense with regards to jus sanguinis than by location.

Why don't we just use jus sanguinis as the rule (instead of location), and also allow foreign born full citizens to run for president.  Arnold (or any other immigrant) should be able to run for president.  I'm not saying I would vote for Arnold, but why should we keep people like him from running?
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6656

I hope this is true. I was gonna vote democrat because I hate McCain, but if someone else takes his place...

*cough* Ron Paul! *cough*
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6492|Northern California

Turquoise wrote:

Citizenship by birth makes more sense with regards to jus sanguinis than by location.

Why don't we just use jus sanguinis as the rule (instead of location), and also allow foreign born full citizens to run for president.  Arnold (or any other immigrant) should be able to run for president.  I'm not saying I would vote for Arnold, but why should we keep people like him from running?
You can kinda see where they're coming from in saying no to foreign born citizens..they had turncoats galore back then, and they probably didn't have any embassies yet or otherwise foreign sovereign territory so they probably didn't see our future..with our embassies, bases, etc.

I agree.  If campaign vetting doesn't clear any foreign born presidential candidate (let alone the scrutiny they're under in other held public office), then it's our own fault if we elect a King George (no pun intended) because we have our other amended rights like guns, pen and paper to declare independence yet again! lol
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6406|North Carolina
*nods* Times change, and occasionally, so must the Constitution.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6645

Turquoise wrote:

Citizenship by birth makes more sense with regards to jus sanguinis than by location.

Why don't we just use jus sanguinis as the rule (instead of location), and also allow foreign born full citizens to run for president.  Arnold (or any other immigrant) should be able to run for president.  I'm not saying I would vote for Arnold, but why should we keep people like him from running?
If that were the case, I wouldnt be a citizen.  Im the product of (and I fucking hate the fact that I have to even fucking say it Legal)immigrants.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6406|North Carolina
Well, GS, if your parents became citizens afterward, then they might as well have granted retroactive jus sanguinis to you.

I just want to prevent people from intentionally having children here just to get benefits.  What some of these Mexicans are pulling is absolute bullshit.

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