There have been numerous reports of children who have either been abandon and raised by animals or have been isolated from society, and in most cases, they can be taught to walk upright, wear clothes and eat cooked meat, but only in a few cases do they ever learn any social skills or how to speak. As we've evolved, society has evolved with us, but without society what are we? After looking at these reports on feral children, is our "superior intelligence" a product of nature alone, or is society what makes us human?
As humans our evolution comes from our compacity to learn not really the instictual intellegence that is seen with crawling and walking. Society pushes us foward at an excellerated rate in learned intellegence rather than biological evolutionary factors such as instinctual intellegence. So, in this case society pushes us foward on overall human intellegence from learned sources rather than biology.CommieChipmunk wrote:
There have been numerous reports of children who have either been abandon and raised by animals or have been isolated from society, and in most cases, they can be taught to walk upright, wear clothes and eat cooked meat, but only in a few cases do they ever learn any social skills or how to speak. As we've evolved, society has evolved with us, but without society what are we? After looking at these reports on feral children, is our "superior intelligence" a product of nature alone, or is society what makes us human?
To answer your question Commie, yes society is were our superior intellegence comes from.
I'm not sure you can really say that.Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:
As humans our evolution comes from our compacity to learn not really the instictual intellegence that is seen with crawling and walking. Society pushes us foward at an excellerated rate in learned intellegence rather than biological evolutionary factors such as instinctual intellegence. So, in this case society pushes us foward on overall human intellegence from learned sources rather than biology.CommieChipmunk wrote:
There have been numerous reports of children who have either been abandon and raised by animals or have been isolated from society, and in most cases, they can be taught to walk upright, wear clothes and eat cooked meat, but only in a few cases do they ever learn any social skills or how to speak. As we've evolved, society has evolved with us, but without society what are we? After looking at these reports on feral children, is our "superior intelligence" a product of nature alone, or is society what makes us human?
To answer your question Commie, yes society is were our superior intellegence comes from.
We learn language and social skills very early on in childhood. Then, after certain ages we lose the ability to learn those skills (the age varies for different traits).
However, the important point is that we all start with the innate ability to learn those skills.
Take language for example, two deaf children, raised in non-signing hearing family and not taught to sign by anyone else, will learn to communicate with each other through their own, unique, sign language.
The capacity to learn a language is innate, but the language must learnt early or that capacity is lost.
So, it's not so much that these skills are product of society, but rather it is a complex interplay of innate capacities and societal influences that makes us what we are.
Humans learning ability in general decreases with age and maturation in the same way that a sponge can take in less water with the more water it holds. As for your example its a sign of intuition. They see their parents communicating and learn that they must communicate as well. So, without a normal means of communication they observe body language and go off that. It's natural observation that helps them with their social skills and their ability to create this new language. Sort of like how Commie showed us with his examples.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I'm not sure you can really say that.Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:
As humans our evolution comes from our compacity to learn not really the instictual intellegence that is seen with crawling and walking. Society pushes us foward at an excellerated rate in learned intellegence rather than biological evolutionary factors such as instinctual intellegence. So, in this case society pushes us foward on overall human intellegence from learned sources rather than biology.CommieChipmunk wrote:
There have been numerous reports of children who have either been abandon and raised by animals or have been isolated from society, and in most cases, they can be taught to walk upright, wear clothes and eat cooked meat, but only in a few cases do they ever learn any social skills or how to speak. As we've evolved, society has evolved with us, but without society what are we? After looking at these reports on feral children, is our "superior intelligence" a product of nature alone, or is society what makes us human?
To answer your question Commie, yes society is were our superior intellegence comes from.
We learn language and social skills very early on in childhood. Then, after certain ages we lose the ability to learn those skills (the age varies for different traits).
However, the important point is that we all start with the innate ability to learn those skills.
Take language for example, two deaf children, raised in non-signing hearing family and not taught to sign by anyone else, will learn to communicate with each other through their own, unique, sign language.
The capacity to learn a language is innate, but the language must learnt early or that capacity is lost.
So, it's not so much that these skills are product of society, but rather it is a complex interplay of innate capacities and societal influences that makes us what we are.
True, but the situation with language is of a whole different order to that - it's not just that we find it harder and harder to learn a language as we get older, but rather there is a strict cut-off point - if you haven't learnt a language before that point, you never will, no matter how hard you study.Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:
Humans learning ability in general decreases with age and maturation.
I believe it's more than that - even if the two children in my example were locked in basement all their lives, with no normal contact with adults, just as long as they're not alone, they will still learn to communicate - same with groups of speaking children locked in a basement - they will develop their own spoken language.Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:
As for your example its a sign of intuition.
In fact, many closely aged siblings, particularly twins, develop their own private language.
Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-02-23 19:02:33)
While we were on the subject of human intelligence and language, I was about to do one of my trademarked red ink quotes, but as it turns out Firefox did part of the job for me. Perhaps you should give it a try. While it won't correct everything, it can at least erase some of the more embarrassing ones.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-02-23 19:15:41)
I think our "superior intelligence" is simply the manifestation of genetic potential realized through social interaction. Many cognitive processes are innate, as studies of feral children have shown (look at Noam Chomsky's work regarding the innate presence of language in feral children as one aspect). However, as you pointed out, a lack of human social interaction retards the growth of this innate potential. Certainly, the presence of a social environment focused on learning and interaction between humans helps develop human intelligence.CommieChipmunk wrote:
There have been numerous reports of children who have either been abandon and raised by animals or have been isolated from society, and in most cases, they can be taught to walk upright, wear clothes and eat cooked meat, but only in a few cases do they ever learn any social skills or how to speak. As we've evolved, society has evolved with us, but without society what are we? After looking at these reports on feral children, is our "superior intelligence" a product of nature alone, or is society what makes us human?
I learned (and wrote a paper on) this very idea when I was a college student taking Psychology. Unfortunately all my college work is in a storage unit, or I could provide much more in-depth analysis.
I have always had poor spelling. I blame public schoolsunnamednewbie13 wrote:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/un … ionary.jpg
While we were on the subject of human intelligence and language, I was about to do one of my trademarked red ink quotes, but as it turns out Firefox did part of the job for me. Perhaps you should give it a try. While it won't correct everything, it can at least erase some of the more embarrassing ones.
Not sure if that's quite trueScorpion0x17 wrote:
there is a strict cut-off point - if you haven't learnt a language before that point, you never will, no matter how hard you study.
There's definitely a cut off point after which learning a language is much more difficult -- but there are plenty of people who learn to become fluent in certain languages well after their toddler years. Its probably hard as hell, but its still definitely possible.
Well, I'm just going on the info in the book I read that had a bit about language development in it - could well be out of date - but I don't think so...Spearhead wrote:
Not sure if that's quite trueScorpion0x17 wrote:
there is a strict cut-off point - if you haven't learnt a language before that point, you never will, no matter how hard you study.
There's definitely a cut off point after which learning a language is much more difficult -- but there are plenty of people who learn to become fluent in certain languages well after their toddler years. Its probably hard as hell, but its still definitely possible.
Our intellect is genetic. Our social customs are environmental.
We naturally have the capacity to think in more abstract ways than other animals, but our customs are ultimately rooted in society. Things like libido have an inseparable influence on our social interactions, and culture is molded by these things, but the subtleties of speech and propriety are purely human creations.
We naturally have the capacity to think in more abstract ways than other animals, but our customs are ultimately rooted in society. Things like libido have an inseparable influence on our social interactions, and culture is molded by these things, but the subtleties of speech and propriety are purely human creations.