HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC
Bring back capital punishment. Or some sort of actual sentence for these sorts of crimes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/f … ge_id=1879

That's as good as murder in my book, and the description of it makes it seem like the three teens who did it will never serve a purpose in society and should be "removed", be it being sent to prison for life or just delivering the inevitable to them a few years early.

"Their response, after being joined by another lad, was to launch an attack which culminated in Christopher's head being kicked over and over again - 32 times, in fact - until his brain was, to all intents and purposes, destroyed.

Today, nearly six years on, and nearing 50, Christopher is little more than a human vegetable, cared for in a nursing home - just another victim of a horrifying, mindless drunken attack. "

"Just over a week ago, Gareth Avery was kicked and left for dead after politely asking a young passer-by to stop urinating in his garden, and last month three teenagers were found guilty of murder after punching and kicking to death father-of-three Garry Newlove when he had remonstrated with them over the vandalism of cars in his road. "

"And what of his teenage attackers - does the severity of their punishment go some way to alleviate the tragedy of the family they so clinically destroyed? In fact, the Mail has learned, one of the three, Paul Ashman, is already out of jail. He was freed last year, after serving a little more than half of the original seven-year sentence he was given for grievous bodily harm with intent. The other two attackers, Chad Patterson and Kevin Wakeling, also 18 at the time of sentencing, are likely to be paroled from jail within the next two years."

That last quote just fucking gets to me. These people commit a savage act of first degree murder, and one of them GETS OUT OF FUCKING JAIL?! The shit these kids do is what you'd expect to hear from a warzone like Iraq, not a fucking civilized country like the UK.

Get your shit together people. The occurrence of these crimes makes me wonder if your government even cares about enforcing the law.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6628|949

You know, I often think about the idea of state-sanctioned death as opposed to retributive justice or an idea of allowing the victim to choose the punishment.

I cannot rationalize the idea that the victim should be allowed to inflict punishment (if any) on the purveyor of the crime any more than the idea that the state should be responsible for the upholding of morals through the death penalty.  I think about this stuff all the time (the justice system as enforcers of moral codes, retributive justice, the idea that the victim should pick the punishment if any) and I can't seem to evolve my views at all
David.P
Banned
+649|6270
Send them to me in Gitmo. I'll have one good time!
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6736
Don't want capital punishment or need capital punishment in the UK.

Look at some of the countrys that have capital punishment has it stop crime there? no not one bit.

But I do think when they say life imprisonment then that's what it should mean.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

You know, I often think about the idea of state-sanctioned death as opposed to retributive justice or an idea of allowing the victim to choose the punishment.

I cannot rationalize the idea that the victim should be allowed to inflict punishment (if any) on the purveyor of the crime any more than the idea that the state should be responsible for the upholding of morals through the death penalty.  I think about this stuff all the time (the justice system as enforcers of moral codes, retributive justice, the idea that the victim should pick the punishment if any) and I can't seem to evolve my views at all
Ideally we wouldn't need a death penalty. Ideally, people wouldn't kill other people in a drunken rage for the sake of it.

But unfortunately, these lowlifes exist. And it's pretty god damned evident that what they do in the UK for punishment doesn't deter these kids at all. Maybe the threat of never being able to go drinking with your tool pals again... the threat of ending up like the victims of their crimes... would keep them from committing these crimes in the first place.

@Paranoid, I'm almost certain that the death penalty has at least lowered crime in some areas. I'll go hunt for graphs later.

Last edited by HurricaИe (2008-02-19 14:34:45)

xRBLx
I've got lovely bunch of coconuts!!
+27|6351|England - Kent
I have said for a long tome bring back capital punishment and national service for a while now.
Although national service should only be broung in on those who dont get a job or go to collage after the age of 18.
jord
Member
+2,382|6674|The North, beyond the wall.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl … 015283.stm

I'm happy that there is no legal way to kill me here. Thank fuck for that really.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6628|949

The death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent.  It is a punishment, plain and simple.

Refer to this
https://i16.tinypic.com/4xxh7h3.png

The states that have the death penalty have larger homicide rates, and the rate of executions is uncorrelated to the rise and fall of homicide rates.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-19 14:47:40)

Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6460|Tyne & Wear, England
OK I know that it doesn't totally apply to this thread, but to quote myself from another thread.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the death penalty does not deter people from committing crimes?

I don't care what you say, but any person who commits a murder is quite clearly insane.  I personally think that someone who has such mental issues lacks the rationality to even think about the consequences of murder i.e. the death penalty.

They have a clear lack of regard for another persons life, so why should they care for their own.

A lot of the time, a murder takes place in the heat of the moment when all other thoughts go out of the window.

The death penalty is redundant, it does not work.
I do however agree that something needs to be done to stop rejects like these from these poisoning our culture and destroying peoples lives.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6651

Britain needs loose gun laws At least in America people are just shot dead instead of brutally and disgustingly murdered by brute force and repetitive kicks/punches.
samfink
Member
+31|6551
I prefer life imprisonment myself. one provision- none of this 25 years then parole cap, WHOLE F**king LIFE. parole should be to the mortuary. oh, and none of this rights crap either- a small cell, as uncomfortable as possible, food? give them the cheapest crap possible. and they shoud have to work. the funds going to defray the cost of keeping them.
jord
Member
+2,382|6674|The North, beyond the wall.

mtb0minime wrote:

Britain needs loose gun laws At least in America people are just shot dead instead of brutally and disgustingly murdered by brute force and repetitive kicks/punches.
Yes but you actually have some sort of chance in a physical fight.
commissargizz
Member
+123|6460| Heaven
Too many Liberal Judges (I think stupid) that let people off. Bang them up ooohhh that's too expensive and might fringe their human rights.
Shit hole England, too much going wrong with it nowadays, we're fucked.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC

jord wrote:

mtb0minime wrote:

Britain needs loose gun laws At least in America people are just shot dead instead of brutally and disgustingly murdered by brute force and repetitive kicks/punches.
Yes but you actually have some sort of chance in a physical fight.
The idea is that the kids who do these crimes won't have easy access to guns. They mess with the wrong guy and they get their just desserts.

And I agree samfink. I really don't understand parole. It's like being let out of jail and you only go back if you're a retard and get caught with drugs or do a crime again.
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6460|Tyne & Wear, England

HurricaИe wrote:

The shit these kids do is what you'd expect to hear from a warzone like Iraq, not a fucking civilized country like the UK.
You talk about Britain as if we are a minority in the civilised world by not having the death penalty.  But it's the civilised countries that you speak of that have done away or are doing away with the death penalty, all over the world, not just Britain.

It's the so called evil dictatorships and oppressive regimes that you expect to still carry the death penalty.

Last edited by KILLSWITCH (2008-02-19 14:54:16)

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
02fxnmaurer
Member
+75|6478|Birmingham UK
tht shit is twisted...people like this dont deserve to live
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC

KILLSWITCH wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

The shit these kids do is what you'd expect to hear from a warzone like Iraq, not a fucking civilized country like the UK.
You talk about Britain as if we are a minority in the civilised world by not having the death penalty.  But it's the civilised countries that you speak of that have done away or are doing away with the death penalty, all over the world, not just Britain.

It's the so called evil dictatorships and oppressive regimes that you expect to still carry the death penalty.
I myself think capital punishment is fine, but note how I said a PROPER jail sentence (e.g. a determinate life sentence... staying in your prison cell from the day you go in till the day you die) would be fine too. My reference to being civilized was in regards to the crimes being committed. Not to say that bad shit doesn't happen in the US but come on. You don't see articles very often about teenagers brutally murdering people for NO reason.
White-Fusion
Fuck
+616|6548|Scotland
Fuck sake.

Get all 3 of them... Tie them up on a stage. Beat the shit into them and stamp on their heads until there is nothing but brain and bits of bone left.

Broadcast it on TV live.

Say that anyone found guilty of a crime like this will have the same thing they did to their victim... done to them.

Then sit back and watch the crime rate drop.
jord
Member
+2,382|6674|The North, beyond the wall.

HurricaИe wrote:

jord wrote:

mtb0minime wrote:

Britain needs loose gun laws At least in America people are just shot dead instead of brutally and disgustingly murdered by brute force and repetitive kicks/punches.
Yes but you actually have some sort of chance in a physical fight.
The idea is that the kids who do these crimes won't have easy access to guns. They mess with the wrong guy and they get their just desserts.

And I agree samfink. I really don't understand parole. It's like being let out of jail and you only go back if you're a retard and get caught with drugs or do a crime again.
I agree with vigilantes to an extent. But they're not in any position to judge who deserves what. If a guy tries to steal some cash and the other guy unloads an Uzi on him I wouldn't side with the vigilante.

There's an equal force law here. It means you can defend yourself using reasonable force. It means if a guy comes at you with a small stick you can't shoot him dead. Makes sense really.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC

jord wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

jord wrote:


Yes but you actually have some sort of chance in a physical fight.
The idea is that the kids who do these crimes won't have easy access to guns. They mess with the wrong guy and they get their just desserts.

And I agree samfink. I really don't understand parole. It's like being let out of jail and you only go back if you're a retard and get caught with drugs or do a crime again.
I agree with vigilantes to an extent. But they're not in any position to judge who deserves what. If a guy tries to steal some cash and the other guy unloads an Uzi on him I wouldn't side with the vigilante.

There's an equal force law here. It means you can defend yourself using reasonable force. It means if a guy comes at you with a small stick you can't shoot him dead. Makes sense really.
There's a difference between a guy "coming at you with a small stick" and three kids assaulting, beating, and ultimately murdering (I realize he is technically alive, about as alive as Terry Schiavo was) an innocent man.

Not that I don't agree with you... there is a necessity for equal force. But then... maybe these people shouldn't be robbing others, attacking others to begin with? Don't do the crime and you won't do the time.
jord
Member
+2,382|6674|The North, beyond the wall.
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6460|Tyne & Wear, England

HurricaИe wrote:

KILLSWITCH wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

The shit these kids do is what you'd expect to hear from a warzone like Iraq, not a fucking civilized country like the UK.
You talk about Britain as if we are a minority in the civilised world by not having the death penalty.  But it's the civilised countries that you speak of that have done away or are doing away with the death penalty, all over the world, not just Britain.

It's the so called evil dictatorships and oppressive regimes that you expect to still carry the death penalty.
I myself think capital punishment is fine, but note how I said a PROPER jail sentence (e.g. a determinate life sentence... staying in your prison cell from the day you go in till the day you die) would be fine too. My reference to being civilized was in regards to the crimes being committed. Not to say that bad shit doesn't happen in the US but come on. You don't see articles very often about teenagers brutally murdering people for NO reason.
I couldn't agree more when you say a proper jail sentence.  As someone said earlier, the problem lies with our judges being over-liberal, sentencing tends to be far too lax at times in the UK.

I just can't justify the death sentence however.  Not that I care for the scumbag that commits the crime, it's the element of doubt.  If just one wrongly accused person was executed every year then that's one person too many in my opinion.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6651

My earlier post was meant to be a bit of a joke. But on a serious note, I'd rather get shot and die quickly than have to suffer from beatings and become a vegetable.


But like a lot of other people said, death penalty doesn't deter much crime. However, I still support the death penalty (and I wish inmates would spent less time on death row and more time in the ground). Mainly so we don't have to keep opening more jails and such to hold people.

As for these violent crimes by teenagers, something needs to be done. Get better programs to deter gangs and whatnot. This is really disgusting and pathetic that human beings would actually do this kind of crap to one another.
jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6651|Cambridge, England

HurricaИe wrote:

KILLSWITCH wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

The shit these kids do is what you'd expect to hear from a warzone like Iraq, not a fucking civilized country like the UK.
You talk about Britain as if we are a minority in the civilised world by not having the death penalty.  But it's the civilised countries that you speak of that have done away or are doing away with the death penalty, all over the world, not just Britain.

It's the so called evil dictatorships and oppressive regimes that you expect to still carry the death penalty.
I myself think capital punishment is fine, but note how I said a PROPER jail sentence (e.g. a determinate life sentence... staying in your prison cell from the day you go in till the day you die) would be fine too. My reference to being civilized was in regards to the crimes being committed. Not to say that bad shit doesn't happen in the US but come on. You don't see articles very often about teenagers brutally murdering people for NO reason.
Jail is too expensive for people to have real sentences. UK is so low on jail space as it is we can't afford longer sentences.
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5910|Glendale, CA
I say kick their asses but not kill them.

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