I guess not, what I do "get" is motivations and actions. Convenient how you cherry picked the post by the way.Dilbert_X wrote:
Who cares, it doesn't matter if they did or didn't, they're just homicidal nutjobs - exactly my point.Did the IRA perform their acts of terrorism in the name of God, or Catholicism??
I guess you don't get irony.
Last edited by lowing (2008-02-16 07:10:59)
That is the most idiotic, sensationalist piece of opinion drivel I have ever read. Murdoch's papers enjoy employing hacks that pose as journalists.Kmarion wrote:
THE 'EURABIA' MYTH
and that's exactly where we differ. You think that there is a logical connection between muslim immigration, islam, and terror attacks such as 09/11. Not just a connection, to be exact, but that they exist because of each other.lowing wrote:
..Actually, I never read up on any of it before 911, like I said I never worried about what wasn't affecting me directly.
No, immigration didn't start in 2001, but neither did Islamic radicalism. By me ignoring it back than didn't mean it wasn't happening.
911, London, Spain, and the countless other attack has brought this issue to the front pages. Not me.
I never said they did not exist independently. I have made distinct comments about both.....B.Schuss wrote:
and that's exactly where we differ. You think that there is a logical connection between muslim immigration, islam, and terror attacks such as 09/11. Not just a connection, to be exact, but that they exist because of each other.lowing wrote:
..Actually, I never read up on any of it before 911, like I said I never worried about what wasn't affecting me directly.
No, immigration didn't start in 2001, but neither did Islamic radicalism. By me ignoring it back than didn't mean it wasn't happening.
911, London, Spain, and the countless other attack has brought this issue to the front pages. Not me.
I happen to believe that they exist independently of each other, and that we can fight one part of it ( radical islamic terror ) without discriminating against islam, or muslim immigrants at the same time.
My main focus with regard to that are our laws. Freedom of religion, anti-discrimination, and immigration laws, to be exact.
At the moment, there is simply no way to get around these laws, and this means we have an obligation to differentiate between immigration, religion, and terrorism.
To me, the only thing 09/11, London and Madrid have brought to the front pages, is islamic terrorism/Al Quaida. Islam, and muslim immigration, however, have existed before, and do not present a problem.
Last edited by lowing (2008-02-16 11:06:54)
It's an OP'ED, backed by history. One that's seems pretty accurate to me. Ralph Peters is no hack.<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:
That is the most idiotic, sensationalist piece of opinion drivel I have ever read. Murdoch's papers enjoy employing hacks that pose as journalists.Kmarion wrote:
THE 'EURABIA' MYTH
I'll give Peters credit for one thing. He didn't bother pretending to be objective in his analysis.Kmarion wrote:
It's an OP'ED, backed by history. One that's seems pretty accurate to me. Ralph Peters is no hack.<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:
That is the most idiotic, sensationalist piece of opinion drivel I have ever read. Murdoch's papers enjoy employing hacks that pose as journalists.Kmarion wrote:
THE 'EURABIA' MYTH
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-02-16 20:34:23)
He has century after century backing him. The point he is making is that there is no way in hell Europeans will let a "Eurabia" happen. It might not be pretty, but reality is what it is.Turquoise wrote:
I'll give Peters credit for one thing. He didn't bother pretending to be objective in his analysis.Kmarion wrote:
It's an OP'ED, backed by history. One that's seems pretty accurate to me. Ralph Peters is no hack.<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:
That is the most idiotic, sensationalist piece of opinion drivel I have ever read. Murdoch's papers enjoy employing hacks that pose as journalists.
Nevertheless, he does make a few good points. The way that France mistreats its North African immigrants is a perfect example of why there is conflict in some of Europe between immigrants and "natives." Many citizenship laws in countries like Germany are very racist. You can be a 2nd generation descendant of a Turkish immigrant and have lived your entire life in Germany and still not receive the full level of citizenship that someone born in Germany of German lineage can have.
I have a feeling things like this will change as immigrants make up a larger and larger part of the European population. They will have no choice but to be more egalitarian with their immigrants when they become economically dependent on them.
I'm sure when the Nazi's were shipping Jews off to be gassed half a century ago they weren't thinking about demographics and an elderly population. Hate has no reason. THAT is reality.Turquoise wrote:
Reality also has a habit of moderating hardliner policies. Look at how neutered the Bush administration has become after the failures of the Iraq War.
I think Europe will eat some humble pie regarding immigrants in the next few decades because of the demographics situation. They simply can't breed fast enough to take care of their elderly. The only logical option is to allow more immigration and grant them more rights as they become more dependent.
This naturally results in a friendliness to immigrant affairs as more of the population and governments are made up of immigrants and their descendants. In effect, there will slowly be a melting pot effect in Europe the same way that America already has.
Are you suggesting that the current leadership of Europe is Nazi in mindset?Kmarion wrote:
I'm sure when the Nazi's were shipping Jews off to be gassed half a century ago they weren't thinking about demographics and an elderly population. Hate has no reason. THAT is reality.Turquoise wrote:
Reality also has a habit of moderating hardliner policies. Look at how neutered the Bush administration has become after the failures of the Iraq War.
I think Europe will eat some humble pie regarding immigrants in the next few decades because of the demographics situation. They simply can't breed fast enough to take care of their elderly. The only logical option is to allow more immigration and grant them more rights as they become more dependent.
This naturally results in a friendliness to immigrant affairs as more of the population and governments are made up of immigrants and their descendants. In effect, there will slowly be a melting pot effect in Europe the same way that America already has.
The song came to my mind tooKylieTastic wrote:
Whats Iron Maiden got to do with this?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Quick, run for the hills!
No I was explaining the reasoning behind a cultural divide does not follow your eloquent description of civilized rationale.Turquoise wrote:
Are you suggesting that the current leadership of Europe is Nazi in mindset?Kmarion wrote:
I'm sure when the Nazi's were shipping Jews off to be gassed half a century ago they weren't thinking about demographics and an elderly population. Hate has no reason. THAT is reality.Turquoise wrote:
Reality also has a habit of moderating hardliner policies. Look at how neutered the Bush administration has become after the failures of the Iraq War.
I think Europe will eat some humble pie regarding immigrants in the next few decades because of the demographics situation. They simply can't breed fast enough to take care of their elderly. The only logical option is to allow more immigration and grant them more rights as they become more dependent.
This naturally results in a friendliness to immigrant affairs as more of the population and governments are made up of immigrants and their descendants. In effect, there will slowly be a melting pot effect in Europe the same way that America already has.
Well, I'm the first to admit that people don't tend to act rationally about cultural matters.... I guess I find myself in a weird position here. I'm usually the cynic, and you're usually the one with hope for humanity.Kmarion wrote:
No I was explaining the reasoning behind a cultural divide does not follow your eloquent description of civilized rationale.Turquoise wrote:
Are you suggesting that the current leadership of Europe is Nazi in mindset?Kmarion wrote:
I'm sure when the Nazi's were shipping Jews off to be gassed half a century ago they weren't thinking about demographics and an elderly population. Hate has no reason. THAT is reality.
I just think Europe went through hell to preserve their identity over the years. I don't see that changing anytime soon.Turquoise wrote:
Well, I'm the first to admit that people don't tend to act rationally about cultural matters.... I guess I find myself in a weird position here. I'm usually the cynic, and you're usually the one with hope for humanity.Kmarion wrote:
No I was explaining the reasoning behind a cultural divide does not follow your eloquent description of civilized rationale.Turquoise wrote:
Are you suggesting that the current leadership of Europe is Nazi in mindset?
What the hell happened? lol
Time will tell. I have mountains of history to dictate otherwise. But hope and logic are two different beast.Turquoise wrote:
Sure... but don't you think they'll lighten up some when they realize they are aging out? Europeans are essentially a dying legacy. Within the next decade, countries like Austria and Italy will actually have negative population growth, unless they greatly increase immigration.
Surely they will have a change of heart when they realize they need these people....
Last edited by 13/f/taiwan (2013-02-12 13:49:14)
Jaekus wrote:
I miss Kmar.
Spearhead wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
I miss Kmar.