sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina
Let me say that I don't understand Organized Religion and the way people worship something they can't see.  But I respect their beliefs.  I find the vilification of Islam some people make amazing and ignorant.  Do you think Islam is the only Religion that promotes violence?  Well, it's not.  Islam promotes violence of course, but so does Christianity and so does Judaism, the three Abrahamic Religions.  All we must remember is it doesn't matter what Religion is promoting the violence, most "believers" within the said Religion are innocent people, and they are victims of the generalization and prejudice for the actions of a few extremists.  We all know the violence related to Islam.  It's in everyday's media, it's in every Lowing's post.  It's real and undeniable.  But it's unfair to Muslims (there's a member here who is constantly bashed for being Muslim) to say that Islam is a disease or BS like that courtesy of usmarine.  I won't make a list of episodes of violence related to Islam, we know what's going on in the Middle East and North Africa as well.  There're 1.5 billion Muslims that don't commit acts of violence, and maybe a few thousands that do.  I won't write a list of Islamic terrorist organizations, it would be quite long, and, like I said, we all know what these assholes do everyday.  These extremists must be fought and killed if possible.  The worst crime we can commit is to generalize about the 1.5 billion mentioned above.

VIOLENT ISLAM - CHECKED

Let's check Christianity.  What should be said about Christians if the same vilification took place with their Religion for the acts of Ku Klux Klan in the US, the troubles between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the Army of God and their anthrax letters, the Christian group (Tsar Lazaar?) that killed thousands in Serbia and now wants to nuke Kosovo, and who knows how many more groups.  What about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Christianization of the Americas during the XVI-XVIII centuries.  What about the Bible?  Everyone's talking about the hatred prevalent in the Qu'ran, but what happens with the Old Testament, holy book for both Judaism and Christianity.  It contains a lot of violence and hatred as well.

VIOLENT CHRISTIANITY - CHECKED

Let's check Judaism.  What about Irgun and Lehi and their peaceful contribution to the creation of Israel?  Kahanists?  And Israel and its state terrorism?  You think that's not terrorism, well you are wrong, it is terrorism at its best.  Israel is no better no worse than those extremists they fight everyday.  Some facts: the Qibya Massacre (1953), the Lavon Affair (1954), the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre (1994), the Lebanon War (2006), the everyday actions of the IDF in the OT's and a lot more I don't remember. 

VIOLENT JUDAISM - CHECKED

There are other Religion promoting terrorism, violence, hatred, but these three are IMO the most important Religions in the World.  And as we can see in everyone of them there're extremists and radicals who use the Religion as the excuse to commit acts of violence,  hiding political agendas and economic interests, not very Religious motivations.  So, it's clear that any Religion can be violent when the extremists use them to justify their acts.  But the generalization and persecution of a whole group for the actions of those extremists is also a sad crime.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6513|Escea

sergeriver wrote:

Let's check Judaism.  What about Irgun and Lehi and their peaceful contribution to the creation of Israel?  Kahanists?  And Israel and its state terrorism?  You think that's not terrorism, well you are wrong, it is terrorism at its best.  Israel is no better no worse than those extremists they fight everyday.  Some facts: the Qibya Massacre (1953), the Lavon Affair (1954), the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre (1994), the Lebanon War (2006), the everyday actions of the IDF in the OT's and a lot more I don't remember.
Ow naw not another one , though looking at the facts, the Islamic one is roughly twice the size of the others.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470
I totally agree with what you are saying and I think most people here understand that every religion has its bad points and its bad times in history. The difference right now is that Islam is under attack basically from all sides. It is being attacked or high jacked from within its own believers and its under attack because some of its believers want a world of strict Islam. Normal Muslims who go about their business and want to just practice their religion in many countries outside of the middle east are even under attack from this radical form of Islam. Basically, what we are seeing is what every religion has gone through at one time or another. Even Scientology is showing some signs of radicalism and attacks from people who don't want to believe what they believe. To each his own.

How it gets all sorted and when will it end....who knows. Islam is a sore point for many people and a religion that is truly messed up right now. Its radicals are perverting it for their own means and it probably wont stop until normal Muslims stand up and take their religion back. There is no doubt that radical Islam is the most troublesome form and there is no comparison to the problem it is presenting at this time. There is not a surge in Christian radical behaviour, there is not a surge in radical Judaism....there is, however, a surge of radical Islam that threatens many inside and outside Islam itself. This is obvious and there will be some people and some governments and some military that will have to stand up and fight.

Some people here will spout off about Islam, and I am sure that they understand about the difference in radical and normal Muslims. Some get emotional about the topic and I understand their point of view because no matter what you or anybody else thinks, radical Islam is causing problems on pretty much every continent on a daily basis and usually it is in the form of death, violence, threats and intimidation. No other religion, at this time, is suffering this type of problem. It may have in the past and it may in the future but no other religion is in people's faces like radical Islam and its perverted form of Islam.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6701|'Murka

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6942|USA

sergeriver wrote:

Let me say that I don't understand Organized Religion and the way people worship something they can't see.  But I respect their beliefs.  I find the vilification of Islam some people make amazing and ignorant.  Do you think Islam is the only Religion that promotes violence?  Well, it's not.  Islam promotes violence of course, but so does Christianity and so does Judaism, the three Abrahamic Religions.  All we must remember is it doesn't matter what Religion is promoting the violence, most "believers" within the said Religion are innocent people, and they are victims of the generalization and prejudice for the actions of a few extremists.  We all know the violence related to Islam.  It's in everyday's media, it's in every Lowing's post.  It's real and undeniable.  But it's unfair to Muslims (there's a member here who is constantly bashed for being Muslim) to say that Islam is a disease or BS like that courtesy of usmarine.  I won't make a list of episodes of violence related to Islam, we know what's going on in the Middle East and North Africa as well.  There're 1.5 billion Muslims that don't commit acts of violence, and maybe a few thousands that do.  I won't write a list of Islamic terrorist organizations, it would be quite long, and, like I said, we all know what these assholes do everyday.  These extremists must be fought and killed if possible.  The worst crime we can commit is to generalize about the 1.5 billion mentioned above.

VIOLENT ISLAM - CHECKED

Let's check Christianity.  What should be said about Christians if the same vilification took place with their Religion for the acts of Ku Klux Klan in the US, the troubles between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the Army of God and their anthrax letters, the Christian group (Tsar Lazaar?) that killed thousands in Serbia and now wants to nuke Kosovo, and who knows how many more groups.  What about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Christianization of the Americas during the XVI-XVIII centuries.  What about the Bible?  Everyone's talking about the hatred prevalent in the Qu'ran, but what happens with the Old Testament, holy book for both Judaism and Christianity.  It contains a lot of violence and hatred as well.

VIOLENT CHRISTIANITY - CHECKED

Let's check Judaism.  What about Irgun and Lehi and their peaceful contribution to the creation of Israel?  Kahanists?  And Israel and its state terrorism?  You think that's not terrorism, well you are wrong, it is terrorism at its best.  Israel is no better no worse than those extremists they fight everyday.  Some facts: the Qibya Massacre (1953), the Lavon Affair (1954), the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre (1994), the Lebanon War (2006), the everyday actions of the IDF in the OT's and a lot more I don't remember. 

VIOLENT JUDAISM - CHECKED

There are other Religion promoting terrorism, violence, hatred, but these three are IMO the most important Religions in the World.  And as we can see in everyone of them there're extremists and radicals who use the Religion as the excuse to commit acts of violence,  hiding political agendas and economic interests, not very Religious motivations.  So, it's clear that any Religion can be violent when the extremists use them to justify their acts.  But the generalization and persecution of a whole group for the actions of those extremists is also a sad crime.
I understand that this thread is supposed to be a mockery of the thread I recently started, my only question is this, Who said anything about violent religions?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina

lowing wrote:

I understand that this thread is supposed to be a mockery of the thread I recently started, my only question is this, Who said anything about violent religions?
Not mockery, just a reply to a lot of threads about how mean Islam is, nothing else.  I want to show that all Religions have violence, not just Islam.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-31 04:04:59)

JahManRed
wank
+646|6918|IRELAND

lowing wrote:

I understand that this thread is supposed to be a mockery of the thread I recently started, my only question is this, Who said anything about violent religions?
I wouldn't say its a mockery. Serge is balancing the debate.

Religion TOTALLY confuses me. People follow books and teaching blindly. You wouldn't trust third hand evidence normally. Religion is like 300 generations of hand me down misinformation and hear say with no hard solid facts.

Worship ones self I say!!
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6911|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
They're all pretty bad and violent...
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7062|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

Let's check Christianity.  What should be said about Christians if the same vilification took place with their Religion for the acts of Ku Klux Klan in the US etc. etc. etc.
Christianity is already vilified for the acts of extremists. And this 'ask any religion' thingy of yours is sorta silly, as you target a pretty narrow selection here, even if you did bump in a disclaimer at the very end.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-01-31 05:57:25)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Let's check Christianity.  What should be said about Christians if the same vilification took place with their Religion for the acts of Ku Klux Klan in the US etc. etc. etc.
Christianity is already vilified for the acts of extremists. And this 'ask any religion' thingy of yours is sorta silly, as you target a pretty narrow selection here, even if you did bump in a disclaimer at the very end.
I said I was talking about the Abrahamic Religions because they have the same roots, and they are IMO kinda important in the World.  I can't make a post with all the Religions out there.  Sorry.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6736|The Land of Scott Walker

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
The New Testament is where the teachings of Jesus are contained, which are all non-violent.  The OT is essentially what led up to Christ's arrival on earth and it is violent because it was a violent time on earth.  Compare the doctrine and actions of Jesus and Muhammad and you will find a large contrast.
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|6897|Stockholm, Sweden

JahManRed wrote:

Religion TOTALLY confuses me. People follow books and teaching blindly. You wouldn't trust third hand evidence normally. Religion is like 300 generations of hand me down misinformation and hear say with no hard solid facts.

Worship ones self I say!!
Very well said, +1!!!

Last edited by Snorkelfarsan (2008-01-31 07:44:44)

chittydog
less busy
+586|7125|Kubra, Damn it!

Someone please tell me about Sikhs, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus, Wiccans or Shintos killing for their religion.
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6940
Humans are always looking for a scapegoat. With the current political situation surrounding Islamists, people have found one until some other radicalist group comes and shakes the world.

Tbh, this is just the name of the game.
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6916|Sea to globally-cooled sea

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

The difference right now is that Islam is under attack basically from all sides. It is being attacked or high jacked from within its own believers and its under attack because some of its believers want a world of strict Islam. Normal Muslims who go about their business and want to just practice their religion in many countries outside of the middle east are even under attack from this radical form of Islam.
boo hoo

poor islam.

And, I disagree.  Remember the whole teddy bear incident?  That was not Al Queda or Hezbolah.  Those were your "Normal Muslims who go about their business" who were calling for that British teacher's death.

Islam is fundamentally fucked up. 

As for most of your arguments against Jews and Christians: people will lash out when they are being oppressed.  It takes a very strong person to actually turn the other cheek.  Ultimately, that's what Christians are called to do, but seeing as you are no example of self-control and a worship-yourself type of guy, I think you'll understand how difficult it is to turn the other cheek.

People are fallible.  We all make mistakes, we all make bad decisions, and we are all (for the most part) selfish.  Religion teaches us how to behave well, but it's difficult!  Don't blame religion.  Blame the individual.  And particularly, do not blame the people who so contort their religion beyond recognition, because they tend to have evil intentions rather than good ones.  They are not following a religion.

edit clarification

Last edited by G3|Genius (2008-01-31 08:14:05)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina

Stingray24 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
The New Testament is where the teachings of Jesus are contained, which are all non-violent.  The OT is essentially what led up to Christ's arrival on earth and it is violent because it was a violent time on earth.  Compare the doctrine and actions of Jesus and Muhammad and you will find a large contrast.
And why is Jesus one of the three most important persons for Islam?

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-31 08:17:23)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6911|London, England

Stingray24 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
The New Testament is where the teachings of Jesus are contained, which are all non-violent.  The OT is essentially what led up to Christ's arrival on earth and it is violent because it was a violent time on earth.  Compare the doctrine and actions of Jesus and Muhammad and you will find a large contrast.
Protip: Rip the OT out of the Bible (using your right hand of course)
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6851

Stingray24 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Don't look just at actions...look at foundational doctrine. For Christianity, the foundational doctrine is found in the New Testament. For Judaism, the Torah or Old Testament. For Islam, the Qu'ran. Compare the doctrine, not the actions of the followers.
Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
The New Testament is where the teachings of Jesus are contained, which are all non-violent.  The OT is essentially what led up to Christ's arrival on earth and it is violent because it was a violent time on earth.  Compare the doctrine and actions of Jesus and Muhammad and you will find a large contrast.
Yeah man. WTF? Christianity was revised (NT). Islam, weres your New Testament? Waiting..............
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7052

lulz retaliatory thread.  I think you, Cam, and lowing need your own sticky or something.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7052

JahManRed wrote:

I wouldn't say its a mockery. Serge is balancing the debate.
I would have to disagree with you.  He is making a mockery.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7052

sergeriver wrote:

Let me say that I don't understand Organized Religion and the way people worship something they can't see.  But I respect their beliefs.  I find the vilification of Islam some people make amazing and ignorant.
So just so I understand you correctly.  If you mention one religion, you have to talk about all of them?  You cannot choose one and talk about it?  Wow...interesting.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6736|The Land of Scott Walker

sergeriver wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Well, to me all those books are fairy tales, but the Old Testament is very violent IMO.
The New Testament is where the teachings of Jesus are contained, which are all non-violent.  The OT is essentially what led up to Christ's arrival on earth and it is violent because it was a violent time on earth.  Compare the doctrine and actions of Jesus and Muhammad and you will find a large contrast.
And why is Jesus one of the three most important persons for Islam?
As I understand it, Jesus is important to Islam only because they assert He was a Muslim and announced Muhammad's coming.  They reject the teaching of Jesus in the Bible that He is the way to salvation and also His divinity.  I find it rather strange that Islam recognizes Jesus at all since, in the eyes of Islam, Jesus committed a sin by associating Himself with God.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7048|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

lulz retaliatory thread.  I think you, Cam, and lowing need your own sticky or something.
Like you don't.  And you used lulz, lol.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6911|London, England
Muhammad committed a sin by associating himself with God than, so technically he committed a sin too. Stupid Islam

lul

I like finding hypocrisy in relijun

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