Poll

Was It the right thing to Do?

Yes64%64% - 86
No35%35% - 48
Total: 134
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,974|6669|949

IRONCHEF wrote:

How bout NOT having zoos at all?  Research?  lol  It's called "money."  SOmeone mentioned that since there's a zoo in pretty much EVERY metro area in the world, it's clearly not for studying.  If they want to study animals, why then profit from the public?  Why make animals "perform?"

I've been to a zoo with my kids.  It's not entertaining to them.  They thought it was sad that they were captive.  That's all I needed to realize that zoo's are not only unnatural, but that they are highly hypocritical of our so-called civilized nature.  Sure it's not like gladiatorial games with humans dying or anything - and i'm not saying humans are less than animals, but dang..if little children can understand that it's bad for animals to be in cages when they realize there's a natural habitat..then how much more sadistic is it to have full scale zoos for making money?

And for what it's worth, there is an animal museum in a neighboring city that takes in wounded or otherwise incapacitated animals that are treated and released when they're capable.  The museum has stuffed animals in mock habitats.  Nothing wrong with this solution for both the entertainment and research fields.
Most zoos in large cities are funded by either a government sanctioned program, nonprofit organization, or a hybrid of both.  The funding for zoos (especially Metropolitan zoos) comes from taxpayer money and revenue.  Some are supported 100% by nonprofit groups.  Money isn't the driving force behind most zoos.

I go to the San Diego Zoo as much as I can.  I find it incredibly entertaining, especially the Ape exhibits.  If your kids don't like find the zoo entertaining, don't take them.  There are plenty of people who do find it entertaining, as evidenced by the fact that there were people at a zoo on Christmas.  Maybe your little kids don't understand entertainment?

If an animal is 'caged' humanely, fed and taken care of, I have no problem with a zoo.  There has probably been more benefit for the animal kingdom from zoos than any other human institution.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

usmarine2005 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

But you need those working on conservation issues if you don't want tigers gone.
Well you sure as hell do not need them in San Fransisco with Hank and Pat taking pictures with their cell phones.
Yeah, I think SF zoo will have to make a lot of changes if they want to keep their doors open.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6681

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

How bout NOT having zoos at all?  Research?  lol  It's called "money."  SOmeone mentioned that since there's a zoo in pretty much EVERY metro area in the world, it's clearly not for studying.  If they want to study animals, why then profit from the public?  Why make animals "perform?"

I've been to a zoo with my kids.  It's not entertaining to them.  They thought it was sad that they were captive.  That's all I needed to realize that zoo's are not only unnatural, but that they are highly hypocritical of our so-called civilized nature.  Sure it's not like gladiatorial games with humans dying or anything - and i'm not saying humans are less than animals, but dang..if little children can understand that it's bad for animals to be in cages when they realize there's a natural habitat..then how much more sadistic is it to have full scale zoos for making money?

And for what it's worth, there is an animal museum in a neighboring city that takes in wounded or otherwise incapacitated animals that are treated and released when they're capable.  The museum has stuffed animals in mock habitats.  Nothing wrong with this solution for both the entertainment and research fields.
Most zoos in large cities are funded by either a government sanctioned program, nonprofit organization, or a hybrid of both.  The funding for zoos (especially Metropolitan zoos) comes from taxpayer money and revenue.  Some are supported 100% by nonprofit groups.  Money isn't the driving force behind most zoos.

I go to the San Diego Zoo as much as I can.  I find it incredibly entertaining, especially the Ape exhibits.  If your kids don't like find the zoo entertaining, don't take them.  There are plenty of people who do find it entertaining, as evidenced by the fact that there were people at a zoo on Christmas.  Maybe your little kids don't understand entertainment?

If an animal is 'caged' humanely, fed and taken care of, I have no problem with a zoo.  There has probably been more benefit for the animal kingdom from zoos than any other human institution.
I dugg the shit out of zoos when I was a kid.  Especially that Wild Animal park



if they arent in zoos, theyll end up as a rich japanese business man's aphrodisiac tea
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

DesertFox- wrote:

Herein lies the reasoning behind killing it:

Officers approached, and fired at the animal when it began to advance towards them.
Even those who support tranq-ing it, as everyone should up until this point, should know that those darts don't take effect immediately.
Yes, they do.
NantanCochise
Member
+55|6015|Portugal/United States

Kurazoo wrote:

They shouldn't have let it escape in the first place, its the zoo's fault for not having enough protection around the enclosure
Exactly, remember that the tiger was shot by the police as it was about to attack them. A simple law of nature, kill or be killed.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,974|6669|949

NantanCochise wrote:

Kurazoo wrote:

They shouldn't have let it escape in the first place, its the zoo's fault for not having enough protection around the enclosure
Exactly, remember that the tiger was shot by the police as it was about to attack them. A simple law of nature, kill or be killed.
It is more than that.  It is standard police (and wildlife) procedure to kill an animal once it has killed a human, and often times even small pets.  The logic is that if the predator takes a liking to the meat or easy ability to obtain a pet, it could repeat the event - possibly resulting in more death.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

NantanCochise wrote:

Kurazoo wrote:

They shouldn't have let it escape in the first place, its the zoo's fault for not having enough protection around the enclosure
Exactly, remember that the tiger was shot by the police as it was about to attack them. A simple law of nature, kill or be killed.
It is more than that.  It is standard police (and wildlife) procedure to kill an animal once it has killed a human, and often times even small pets.  The logic is that if the predator takes a liking to the meat or easy ability to obtain a pet, it could repeat the event - possibly resulting in more death.
That is correct, that is the standard policy.  However I call that BS.  A tiger will always be a dangerous animal to humans, despite the liking for human meat, because it's its nature.  I bet you that if you leave a person in its cage that the tiger isn't familiar with, it will kill him.  Think of this, if you were the tiger and you are imprisoned (that's what they are at zoos), what would be funnier to you?  Having a piece of meat served, or hunting a prey?  Zoos need to take responsibility with these wild animals, this is what happens when they don't.  I hope the state of California will be hard on them.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-12-26 13:35:46)

Obiwan
Go Cards !!
+196|6731|The Ville

Tetrino wrote:

Haven't they ever heard of tranquiliser dart rifles?
what he said
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6528|Northern California

Obiwan wrote:

Tetrino wrote:

Haven't they ever heard of tranquiliser dart rifles?
what he said
Apparently they don't work.  Yep, after decades and even centuries of controlling animals that are meant to be on display at the public's expense, they still have not arrived at that crossroad where they can subdue their captive animals.  So since there's no adequate tranquilizers in existence or any other such submission devices..local police are the first responders to loosed animals...  lol
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6559|...

ok I just heard the story ... I think you are fishing for emotion. If you were the cop would have have let kill you?
Granted I'll give that the zoo should have some better measures and plans for this sort of thing.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

jsnipy wrote:

ok I just heard the story ... I think you are fishing for emotion. If you were the cop would have have let kill you?
Granted I'll give that the zoo should have some better measures and plans for this sort of thing.
I ain't fishing anything.  I'm pissed off, that's all.  I don't blame the cops, I blame the zoo for not having the response needed instead of letting the cops kill the tiger.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6505
Anything on a killing rampage needs to be shot.

And FYI Tranq-guns take a few minutes to be effective, which is enough time for a tiger to wound or kill some one.
HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|6034

IRONCHEF wrote:

Duh, ok idiot.  Way to apply reason there.
Hey, I'm applying your reason.  So if anyone's the idiot, it would be you.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Anything on a killing rampage needs to be shot.

And FYI Tranq-guns take a few minutes to be effective, which is enough time for a tiger to wound or kill some one.
It depends on the doses.  If you use high doses of tranquilizers the tiger can fall within seconds.
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|6722|Espoo, Finland

sergeriver wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Anything on a killing rampage needs to be shot.

And FYI Tranq-guns take a few minutes to be effective, which is enough time for a tiger to wound or kill some one.
It depends on the doses.  If you use high doses of tranquilizers the tiger can fall within seconds.
I'd rather not try my luck when there are lifes at stake.
Besides, high amounts of tranquilizers can be just as lethal as a bullet.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

Gawwad wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Anything on a killing rampage needs to be shot.

And FYI Tranq-guns take a few minutes to be effective, which is enough time for a tiger to wound or kill some one.
It depends on the doses.  If you use high doses of tranquilizers the tiger can fall within seconds.
I'd rather not try my luck when there are lifes at stake.
Besides, high amounts of tranquilizers can be just as lethal as a bullet.
I know, but a bullet is 100% lethal.  So, I'd rather try the tranqs with the tiger.
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|6722|Espoo, Finland

sergeriver wrote:

Gawwad wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


It depends on the doses.  If you use high doses of tranquilizers the tiger can fall within seconds.
I'd rather not try my luck when there are lifes at stake.
Besides, high amounts of tranquilizers can be just as lethal as a bullet.
I know, but a bullet is 100% lethal.  So, I'd rather try the tranqs with the tiger.
What if you don't have them at hand and waiting for them would most likely mean that someone would die?
Would you let the tiger do her magic and just leave?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6528|Northern California
Gawwad,
The point Serge is making, and that I tried to make, and that I think everyone agrees on, is that the zoo is grossly negligent in not having a method to subdue it's animals should they escape.  Namely, they should have been able to apprehend and subdue the animal (and of course later to euthanize it) without police involvement.  POlice are not meant to do such things and shouldn't.

And obviously in the absence of a prepared zookeeper, then yes, it was ok for the cop to shoot the tiger though it's an absolute tragedy to both the human victims and the tiger itself.  Further, there should have been a zookeeper prepared with tranquilizers to at least try to salvage the animal or stop it before it kills or injures a human.  Such a simple task was obviously overlooked since it took a city cop to get there and kill it.

**a shameless plug for gun rights**
I'd also add that if concealed carry permits were allowed to Californians, and if there were an armed citizen in that zoo, there might have been prevented bloodshed.  I know I'd have shot at it if I saw it threatening a human.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2007-12-26 16:52:42)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6794|Argentina

Gawwad wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Gawwad wrote:


I'd rather not try my luck when there are lifes at stake.
Besides, high amounts of tranquilizers can be just as lethal as a bullet.
I know, but a bullet is 100% lethal.  So, I'd rather try the tranqs with the tiger.
What if you don't have them at hand and waiting for them would most likely mean that someone would die?
Would you let the tiger do her magic and just leave?
Do you understand that I don't blame the cops?  I blame the zoo for not having well trained people responding soon enough.  I wouldn't let a tiger do its magic, but I'd try to do it without shooting at it.
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|6867|Denver colorado
Yes it was the right thing to do.
Would you rather take your chances with another human life in danger or would you rather put more value on a dumb wild animal?

Sorry if I sound kind of extreme but I don't care about dangerous wild animals. Sure, sure, we should help them while they are not dangerous but when they do turn dangerous take them out.
RECONDO67
Member
+60|6673|miami FL
the tiger is innocent he is not at fault for being cage all it's life.
do you guys know that must of this animals in order to catch them they have to kill their parents first?
-=CB=-krazykarl
not always PWD, but usually.
+95|6573|Carlsbad, CA, USA

um no recon. fail. not true, and learn to spell plz.
and, um no, for the rest of the idiots. I AM AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN! I WILL NOT LOWER MYSELF. EVER.
edit: and FAIL! for serge yet again, deal with the news in your country, discuss your third world bullshit, before discussing ours, plezkthxbye.

Last edited by -=CB=-krazykarl (2007-12-26 18:45:36)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6809|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

One person has been killed and two others injured after a tiger escaped from its cage at San Francisco Zoo.  The Siberian tiger, named Tatiana, was the same one that mauled a keeper just before Christmas last year. It has now been shot dead.

Now the tiger is dead.  GG assholes.  Was it her fault?  Is it right to shot a tiger?  They have a wild animal living in a cage, and then when it finds the way out with the zoo full of visitors, the tiger kills one person, but you can't blame the tiger.  I know it's sad that a person was killed.  But it's not the tiger's fault, it's a wild animal.  I say fuck you SF zoo.  What do you think?
Tiger gets out and starts dinking around with people like that, and you can't screw around. Besides which, dogs are put down for attacking people. What makes a tiger so special?

I'm voting Captain Ahab on this matter, but the tiger would've probably thought it was worth it.

sergeriver wrote:

Is it right to shot shoot a tiger?
Is it right to get mauled? I bet people wouldn't have been as pissed off if it was just a brown bear.

article wrote:

...The Siberian tiger, named Tatiana, was the same one that mauled a keeper just before Christmas last year...

...Officers approached, and fired at the animal when it began to advance towards them...

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-12-26 19:08:13)

Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6683
poor tiger... ha. It deserved it. Get over it.
NantanCochise
Member
+55|6015|Portugal/United States

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

NantanCochise wrote:

Kurazoo wrote:

They shouldn't have let it escape in the first place, its the zoo's fault for not having enough protection around the enclosure
Exactly, remember that the tiger was shot by the police as it was about to attack them. A simple law of nature, kill or be killed.
It is more than that.  It is standard police (and wildlife) procedure to kill an animal once it has killed a human, and often times even small pets.  The logic is that if the predator takes a liking to the meat or easy ability to obtain a pet, it could repeat the event - possibly resulting in more death.
Youre on the ball today... But very true what you have said.

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