Like Cop Killer by Body Count, I like that song, lol. Back on topic, I think it's true the police receive little or no respect. We should remember that they are doing a dangerous underpaid job and most of them are good people. Of course, there're rotten apples everywhere. But they deserve respect for doing that job.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
The trouble is I don’t think you can blame the lack of respect of for police soley on hoodies. My mum’s not a hoody, nor has she ever been in trouble with the law but I wouldn’t say she likes Police in general, she used to but over the ears she started to dislike them. Ironically, given the discussion we’re having, I think the loss of respect in young people for our coppers has come from America and gangsta rap. Songs like “F*ck the Police” are cool to young people and they get influenced by it. Moreover I think the way our government has turned our police force away from solving real crimes and focussing heavily on issuing speeding tickets and giving them silly targets (so they actually look to arrest people) has caused a lot of people to lose faith in the Police force.sergeriver wrote:
Good point. The lack of respect for the police has a lot to do. The police should be respected for being a cop not for carrying a gun.JahManRed wrote:
Used to be the police didn't need guns in the UK because they got respect. Now a days the kids have no respect for anyone, so the cops should be able to shoot the wee bolloxes.
In fact I would go as far as making hoody wearing a shootable offence.
Poll
Should the police carry firearms?
| They should carry firearms | 73% | 73% - 118 | ||||
| It depends on the district | 12% | 12% - 20 | ||||
| They should carry a baton or a taser, but no firearms | 12% | 12% - 20 | ||||
| Other | 1% | 1% - 3 | ||||
| Total: 161 | ||||||
I admire any policemen who has the guts to go out on the streets without a gun. I also think that the UK is a great example of civility, in that it is possible for a police force to be unarmed.
Like others have pointed out, this only works if the police are respected. Over here they aren't, so it wouldn't work. Also, it would never work in America for obvious reasons.
Like others have pointed out, this only works if the police are respected. Over here they aren't, so it wouldn't work. Also, it would never work in America for obvious reasons.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
I've just read through this thread, and I gotta say, I think that considering the USA seems to skew things a lot, because the gun-crime problem seems to be a lot bigger there than in other comparable countries.
Like most people have said, I think that taking guns away from police officers in the USA would be crazy. There are too many criminals there who not only have guns but (and this is important) are willing to use them. I'm in Ireland, where it's much like the UK; there is very little gun-crime, and our regular police do not carry firearms. Detectives are routinely armed, and we also have Emergency Response Units who carry guns and react to specific incidences. If it's really bad, our Army has a duty of "assisting civilian powers", so you can call in the Irish Army Rangers, professional bad-asses with more counter-terrorism experience than pretty much anyone else. I can only recall once a police officer being shot here in my 28 years, which was quite recently when an officer basically stumbled on some guys in a car about to hold up a post office and got a bullet in the stomach for his trouble.
Now, the thing is, there is a significant history of armed robbery here. Our various terrorist organisations used to conduct armed raids on post offices and security transit vans with disturbing regularity. They've pretty much stopped since the fighting has stopped, but now the drug-dealers are doing much the same. Even with this, a cop actually getting shot is pretty much unheard of. What I think one of the big reasons for this is (and this is very much I think, I have nothing solid to back this up with) that this is a small country. Shooting a police officer is a big crime, here it carries the harshest sentence the country hands out. If and when it happens, you WILL get caught. The cops will crack down so hard on every element of criminal society that you'll have nowhere to hide. When cornered by police, a criminal here is better off surrendering and doing his time for armed robbery than for murder or attempted murder of a policeman.
Shoot a cop here and you will get caught. We're too small a country to hide. The same is not true in the USA. New York has twice the population of Ireland (roughly), and that's just one city (albeit one of the bigger ones). It's a much easier place to just get lost in.
It really is a shame that the world is in this state, that law-enforcement officers need to be armed simply to keep the peace. There are very few unarmed police forces left in the world, and frankly I'm happy that I live in a country with one of them. Ideally, that's how it should be, the cops don't need to carry guns, but the realities of the world is that in many (if not most) countries, they do.
Like most people have said, I think that taking guns away from police officers in the USA would be crazy. There are too many criminals there who not only have guns but (and this is important) are willing to use them. I'm in Ireland, where it's much like the UK; there is very little gun-crime, and our regular police do not carry firearms. Detectives are routinely armed, and we also have Emergency Response Units who carry guns and react to specific incidences. If it's really bad, our Army has a duty of "assisting civilian powers", so you can call in the Irish Army Rangers, professional bad-asses with more counter-terrorism experience than pretty much anyone else. I can only recall once a police officer being shot here in my 28 years, which was quite recently when an officer basically stumbled on some guys in a car about to hold up a post office and got a bullet in the stomach for his trouble.
Now, the thing is, there is a significant history of armed robbery here. Our various terrorist organisations used to conduct armed raids on post offices and security transit vans with disturbing regularity. They've pretty much stopped since the fighting has stopped, but now the drug-dealers are doing much the same. Even with this, a cop actually getting shot is pretty much unheard of. What I think one of the big reasons for this is (and this is very much I think, I have nothing solid to back this up with) that this is a small country. Shooting a police officer is a big crime, here it carries the harshest sentence the country hands out. If and when it happens, you WILL get caught. The cops will crack down so hard on every element of criminal society that you'll have nowhere to hide. When cornered by police, a criminal here is better off surrendering and doing his time for armed robbery than for murder or attempted murder of a policeman.
Shoot a cop here and you will get caught. We're too small a country to hide. The same is not true in the USA. New York has twice the population of Ireland (roughly), and that's just one city (albeit one of the bigger ones). It's a much easier place to just get lost in.
It really is a shame that the world is in this state, that law-enforcement officers need to be armed simply to keep the peace. There are very few unarmed police forces left in the world, and frankly I'm happy that I live in a country with one of them. Ideally, that's how it should be, the cops don't need to carry guns, but the realities of the world is that in many (if not most) countries, they do.
in northen ireland they have firearms
every time i walk past i just stare at the gun and mags
i thinks they all should because they would get killed without one
every time i walk past i just stare at the gun and mags
i thinks they all should because they would get killed without one
I think the disrespect for authority, and by association the police, comes from earlier than that. I think, that in the United States at least, it stems from the Civil Rights movement in the 1950's and the anti-war movement of the 1960's/'70's. Our baby boomers, the largest generation brithed in the history of the United States constituted a huge movement, and those people carried their attitudes through life and passed them on. Now that they are in positions of power and influence, we see that attitude reflected in many places, from songs to movies and television shows.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
The trouble is I don’t think you can blame the lack of respect of for police soley on hoodies. My mum’s not a hoody, nor has she ever been in trouble with the law but I wouldn’t say she likes Police in general, she used to but over the ears she started to dislike them. Ironically, given the discussion we’re having, I think the loss of respect in young people for our coppers has come from America and gangsta rap. Songs like “F*ck the Police” are cool to young people and they get influenced by it. Moreover I think the way our government has turned our police force away from solving real crimes and focussing heavily on issuing speeding tickets and giving them silly targets (so they actually look to arrest people) has caused a lot of people to lose faith in the Police force.sergeriver wrote:
Good point. The lack of respect for the police has a lot to do. The police should be respected for being a cop not for carrying a gun.JahManRed wrote:
Used to be the police didn't need guns in the UK because they got respect. Now a days the kids have no respect for anyone, so the cops should be able to shoot the wee bolloxes.
In fact I would go as far as making hoody wearing a shootable offence.
From what I have heard, it used to be that the police were respected so much that criminals would run or stop just at their say-so. That the fear of the police was enough to keep you from speeding or doing the wrong thing. But if you think about it, as respect for the police faded, they needed other means to keep order. Thus, fines and penalties were needed to give people motivation to not speed. However, that just raised frustrations, and made things worse. Now, there are videos of people pulled over for speeding who are so disrespectful and disregard the officers instructions so much that the police feel they need to threaten the person with being tased, just to garner the grudging cooperation for the officer to do their jobs.
***EDIT: I think that back in the past, there was also the issue that your average beat cop was in his area long enough to actually get to know the people in the area. They knew him by name, and he knew who and what belonged in his area. That is no longer the case.
Last edited by imortal (2007-12-10 10:10:47)
QFT. May I also add that we then get into a vicious circle whereby as frustration with Police grows, so does the abuse they get, so does the amount of force used by Police which ups the frustration further.imortal wrote:
I think the disrespect for authority, and by association the police, comes from earlier than that. I think, that in the United States at least, it stems from the Civil Rights movement in the 1950's and the anti-war movement of the 1960's/'70's. Our baby boomers, the largest generation brithed in the history of the United States constituted a huge movement, and those people carried their attitudes through life and passed them on. Now that they are in positions of power and influence, we see that attitude reflected in many places, from songs to movies and television shows.
From what I have heard, it used to be that the police were respected so much that criminals would run or stop just at their say-so. That the fear of the police was enough to keep you from speeding or doing the wrong thing. But if you think about it, as respect for the police faded, they needed other means to keep order. Thus, fines and penalties were needed to give people motivation to not speed. However, that just raised frustrations, and made things worse. Now, there are videos of people pulled over for speeding who are so disrespectful and disregard the officers instructions so much that the police feel they need to threaten the person with being tased, just to garner the grudging cooperation for the officer to do their jobs.
***EDIT: I think that back in the past, there was also the issue that your average beat cop was in his area long enough to actually get to know the people in the area. They knew him by name, and he knew who and what belonged in his area. That is no longer the case.
Anyway, way off topis so no the British Police shouldn't carry guns but the yanks should......
Unless you're Rodney King, a lot of times the police needs to be rude coz people don't respect them at all. Hence the need to threaten them with being tased.imortal wrote:
I think the disrespect for authority, and by association the police, comes from earlier than that. I think, that in the United States at least, it stems from the Civil Rights movement in the 1950's and the anti-war movement of the 1960's/'70's. Our baby boomers, the largest generation brithed in the history of the United States constituted a huge movement, and those people carried their attitudes through life and passed them on. Now that they are in positions of power and influence, we see that attitude reflected in many places, from songs to movies and television shows.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
The trouble is I don’t think you can blame the lack of respect of for police soley on hoodies. My mum’s not a hoody, nor has she ever been in trouble with the law but I wouldn’t say she likes Police in general, she used to but over the ears she started to dislike them. Ironically, given the discussion we’re having, I think the loss of respect in young people for our coppers has come from America and gangsta rap. Songs like “F*ck the Police” are cool to young people and they get influenced by it. Moreover I think the way our government has turned our police force away from solving real crimes and focussing heavily on issuing speeding tickets and giving them silly targets (so they actually look to arrest people) has caused a lot of people to lose faith in the Police force.sergeriver wrote:
Good point. The lack of respect for the police has a lot to do. The police should be respected for being a cop not for carrying a gun.
From what I have heard, it used to be that the police were respected so much that criminals would run or stop just at their say-so. That the fear of the police was enough to keep you from speeding or doing the wrong thing. But if you think about it, as respect for the police faded, they needed other means to keep order. Thus, fines and penalties were needed to give people motivation to not speed. However, that just raised frustrations, and made things worse. Now, there are videos of people pulled over for speeding who are so disrespectful and disregard the officers instructions so much that the police feel they need to threaten the person with being tased, just to garner the grudging cooperation for the officer to do their jobs.
***EDIT: I think that back in the past, there was also the issue that your average beat cop was in his area long enough to actually get to know the people in the area. They knew him by name, and he knew who and what belonged in his area. That is no longer the case.