BF2S Forums Hi ,my name is lowing, and I am an Islamaphobic

usmarine2005 wrote:

lowing wrote:

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

It amazes me that the same panicky pussies who think Sharia Law is just around the corner can't seem to find their voice (or their keyboards) when homegrown religious fanatics in the US actually manage to get laws passed that reflect their religious tenets. I guess it's better to be ruled by our own medieval-minded retrograde psychotics than some foreign medieval-minded retrograde psychotics.

You guys are worried about some fucking nutters on the other side of an ocean who can't even keep their own kids out of dance clubs or blue jeans without resorting to capital punishment. I'm worried about the ones here that are actually making policy and law without a single peep of outrage from the "I would rather die than live under an Islamic theocracy" crowd.

sure start a thread with your concerns, in the mean time you are welcome to answer the OP question.

If I am the one who fears and does not understand Islam, why are you "listening" to them, striving to "understand" them, and working toward "alleviating their grief"?

I am the one who apparently needs the help not them.

Well shit, why don't they ask us what we want?

I dunno, nobody wants to give me an answer, just post calling me a racist or a bigot. lol. page 3 of the liberal handbook. Titled, What to do in case you are exposed or cornered.

lowing wrote:

According to some, I have a phobia called Islamaphobia. I have a fear of Islam and all Muslims. I apparently need your help to cure me of this disorder. SO help me. But wait!! Why are you going to the Muslims and asking THEM what you can do to make them more accepted, more diverse in our community. Why are you going to THEM to alleviate their grief? I am the one with the disorder call Islamaphobia, why are you not asking ME what you can do to ease the discomfort of my disorder?

Should you not be taking me to some far off Muslim land to show me just how friendly and tolerant they are toward other religions? Should you not be quoting me Quran verses to show me how loving and tolerant Islam is to all people who do not believe what they believe? Should you not be comforting me by showing just how Islam treats their women, with love and protection? I know, maybe a picture of the prophet Muhammad to hang on my wall to constantly remind me of the love and peace and tolerance that comes along with being Muslim.

Anyway, I am the Islamopobe, do not comfort the Muslims, comfort me. The Muslims are not the one's with the problem. I AM!

Ok.  I'll bite.

Your problem is that you're afraid.  You're afraid of foreign culture.  You're afraid because you're in Iraq where everyone is completely different than you in a racial and cultural sense (excluding other Western troops).  You've probably seen a few carbombs or other such unconventional tactics committed by radical Muslims.  You fear death, so you fear things that can cause death.  In this case, you fear the radical Muslims.  And that is perfectly acceptable.

Until...

Until you stereotype the entire Muslim faith as evil and dangerous.  Then it's bigotry and racism.  Islam has over a billion followers.  Do you mean to tell me you think they're all dangerous?  Most don't even live in the Middle East.  Yep, that's right, the majority of Muslims do not live in the Middle East.  Don't believe me?  This link shows the demography of Islam (scroll down to the Data tab).  In case you can't be bothered to look, it says that Indonesia has the largest number of Muslims, at aprox. 195,272,000 Muslims.  The next closest nation with a comparable number of Muslims is Pakistan with aprox. 160,829,450 Muslims.  There are more Muslims in just Indonesia than in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia combined.  So the largest number of Muslims live in Southeast Asia.  That means that your fear of Muslims is derived from a small percentage of them in the Middle East.

I hope you realize you're stereotyping an entire group of [about 1.5 billion] people based on the actions of a very small percentage in the Middle East.  If you truly think that all of these people are evil and follow an evil religion, then that makes you a fool.  Saying that all Muslims are terrorists is like saying all Christians are child molesters.

One more thing.  Do you know why people are finally getting the picture and deciding to help the discontented Muslims instead of just bombing them until they shut up?  Because it hasn't worked.  And it will never work, because you can't crush and ideology with military force.  And people are finally coming out of their fear-induced shells to realize that we, the West, have been wronging the Muslims for as long as history can recall.

Here's a rough historical timeline of the West's interaction with the Middle East:

-First, we completely disregard the fact that the intellectual center of the world from the time of Jesus to the rise of Europe was in the Middle East.
-Then, when we "discover" the Middle East, we colonize the territory that has had more generations of history than anywhere else on Earth.
-Next, we exploit the living hell out of the people and land to support our growing industrial economies.
-Following that, we have World Wars that toss around the territories as if they were commodities.  We draw borderlines of nations that completely disregard the cultural backgrounds of the people who live in those areas.  This causes some of the conflict we see today.
-Finally, we give them political independence, but we keep them tied to us because of economics.  They do what we say because they need our money to thrive.

So, to summarize, we exploited the Middle East in every way at every chance throughout history.  And we didn't just do it in the Middle East.  We did it in Africa, in Southeast Asia, and we tried to do it in China but were fought out.  What do most of these regions have in common?  With the exception of China and sub-Saharan Africa, they're all dominantly Muslims areas.  And we wonder why the Muslims have a history of disliking the West...


To conclude, if you want to cure your Islamaphobia, stop shooting at the Muslims and make an attempt to reason with them.  They're human just like us.  This doesn't mean to listen to Al-Qaeda's demands and other such terrorist threats, but to reason with the ayatollahs and other Muslim figureheads so that they terrorists become convinced a jihad is unnecessary.  I read in another thread a comment by G3|Genius that said something about Islam being a "backward-ass religion."  That's wrong; Islam isn't the backward-ass part, it's the nations.  And why are they so backwards?  Because they've been suppressed by imperialism for centuries.  It's time we stop exploiting the Middle East the way we do so that we can live in peace.  Will this ever happen?  No, because politicians love power too much to care about the people that are making them rich.  The politicians love to see the Middle Easterners fight so that we can keep them down.  If the Middle East ever put aside it's differences and united under one power, it'd be a force to be reckoned with.  The same can be said for African nations.  This is why we encourage conflict in these areas.

If we attempt to reason with them and stop creating conflict to advance our personal interests, we can successfully show that we, the West, aren't here to eradicate Islam.  This will cease much tension between the radicals and the West.  Fewer radicals means less chance of terror attacks in Western nations.  That means we can pull out of Iraq and focus our funds on more important things such as border control and bridge stability.  In short, if we please the Muslim leaders, we are strengthening our defense at home by reducing the will to harm Westerners in the Middle East.  If you have no reason to fear the Muslims, you can get over your Islamaphobia.  I hope I answered your question

usmarine2005 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Your problem is that you're afraid.  You're afraid of foreign culture.  You're afraid because you're in Iraq where everyone is completely different than you in a racial and cultural sense (excluding other Western troops).  You've probably seen a few carbombs or other such unconventional tactics committed by radical Muslims.  You fear death, so you fear things that can cause death.  In this case, you fear the radical Muslims.  And that is perfectly acceptable.

Some of us have a memory before 9/11 and Iraq dude.

I was answering to his comment, and was not directing that at every Islamaphobic person.  He is serving in Iraq so I assumed that is why he developed his Islamaphobia.

Havok wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Your problem is that you're afraid.  You're afraid of foreign culture.  You're afraid because you're in Iraq where everyone is completely different than you in a racial and cultural sense (excluding other Western troops).  You've probably seen a few carbombs or other such unconventional tactics committed by radical Muslims.  You fear death, so you fear things that can cause death.  In this case, you fear the radical Muslims.  And that is perfectly acceptable.

Some of us have a memory before 9/11 and Iraq dude.

I was answering to his comment, and was not directing that at every Islamaphobic person.  He is serving in Iraq so I assumed that is why he developed his Islamaphobia.

My response still stands.

Popcorn time. lowing has a point, why doesn't somebody start quoting something from the first half of the Qu'ran at him? See what he thinks of it...

Harmor, you cannot liken the two attacks upon the Twin Towers to an invasion of your country by a military force. There is no comparison.

Harmor wrote:

Havok wrote:

If we attempt to reason with them and stop creating conflict to advance our personal interests, we can successfully show that we, the West, aren't here to eradicate Islam.  This will cease much tension between the radicals and the West.  Fewer radicals means less chance of terror attacks in Western nations.  That means we can pull out of Iraq and focus our funds on more important things such as border control and bridge stability.  In short, if we please the Muslim leaders, we are strengthening our defense at home by reducing the will to harm Westerners in the Middle East.  If you have no reason to fear the Muslims, you can get over your Islamaphobia.  I hope I answered your question

Your statement here reminds me of the Nazi sympathizers who thought by appeasing Hitler that they could avoid conflict.  Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are actually a Nazi sympathizer, but what I am saying is that the rhetoric is similar and here's why:


To me Iran is like Germany and Hitler is like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  If we "listen" to them and and give them what they want then we can avoid conflict.  When Germany invaded Poland and the Czechs there were people in America saying just what you are saying.  Even after Germany destroyed the French there were still people in America willing to capitulate with Hitler.  So the invasion of France, to me, the first bombing of the Two Towers in 1993.  It was not until the L (aka 9/11), that we actually got involved.

Incorrect. Hitler was a reactionary, extreme nationalist in a country recovering from two massive blows (WWI, the Depression-hyperinflation era), in a world confused and stunned. He was able to grab hold of a country without a true leader and bend it wheerever way he wanted. Ahmedinijad is a nothing more than a clever politician who knows how to play the world political stage.

The United States originally pursued a policy of isolationism, avoiding conflict whilst trying to broker a peace. This resulted in increased tensions with Berlin and London. When a German U-boat sank the British liner Lusitania in 1915, with 128 Americans aboard, the U.S. President Woodrow Wilson vowed that "America was too proud to fight" and demanded an end to attacks on passenger ships.

Source: Entry of the United States into WWI


If we allow Radical Islam to grow then I believe they will try (and have said in so many words), that they will dominate us; we cannot let that happen.

A good start on not allowing it to grow is to give people no reason to become extremists. People (in general) won't hate you if you don't give them a reason to, I suppose you lot haven't figured that out yet. They can try after that, and they'll fail. Miserably.

I don't know if you have a family member or yourself are in the military, but perhaps if you did your views would be different.  People like usmarine2005 who have fought, fight for your right to say what you believe, even if it doesn't support them or the war.

Yet again on the 'fighting for freedom' shit. How long is it going to take you guys to realise that what you're fighting for is a few individuals' agenda (mostly on Iraq here)?

I don't know how many more 9/11s it will take?  How many car bombs inside the United States it would take?  How many elementary schools need to be taken hostage?  How many more planes will need to explode for you to change your mind?

About what? That no human being is above another? No religion is above another? That no breach of human rights or constitutional law is acceptable?

Islam needs a reformation, just like the Catholics had, to moderate their religion and bring them into the Western world.  Until then we should continue the good fight, twart them, impede them wherever they try to dominate us.

How many muslims have you met? You make them out to be terrible monsters in the dark who will sneak up and grab you from behind.

Yeesh.

mikkel wrote:

All this thread really boils down to is two things:

* Lowing doesn't understand the concept of cause and effect. We're in dialogue with the muslims to try to find a way to settle our differences to everyone's satisfaction as best as we can. This need is urgent because backward, islamophobic people like lowing like to spew a lot of racial and religious generalisation serving to spread antipathy towards muslims. He spotlights whenever possible how muslim radicals are a threat to the Western way of life, but somehow isn't able to realise that his own radicalism is seen in the same way in the eyes of muslims, and that people like him are the reason why this is a major problem in the first place.

* One thread isn't enough for him to understand this.

Just soz I get this straight; It's Lowings fault the radical Islamist cut heads off and seek to spread Sharia Law?

ATG wrote:

mikkel wrote:

All this thread really boils down to is two things:

* Lowing doesn't understand the concept of cause and effect. We're in dialogue with the muslims to try to find a way to settle our differences to everyone's satisfaction as best as we can. This need is urgent because backward, islamophobic people like lowing like to spew a lot of racial and religious generalisation serving to spread antipathy towards muslims. He spotlights whenever possible how muslim radicals are a threat to the Western way of life, but somehow isn't able to realise that his own radicalism is seen in the same way in the eyes of muslims, and that people like him are the reason why this is a major problem in the first place.

* One thread isn't enough for him to understand this.

Just soz I get this straight; It's Lowings fault the radical Islamist cut heads off and seek to spread Sharia Law?

Well apparently you didn't get it straight. No. It's people like lowing's fault that "cutting heads off and seeking to spread Sharia law" is a view of muslims in general that is spreading amongst people who have never dealt with muslims on their own.

That's what we call islamophobia. When people are afraid of Islam because the actions of individials are unfairly portrayed as common amongst members of a religion due to unwarranted bigotry by certain other individuals.

Last edited by mikkel (2007-08-05 01:21:47)

elite.mafia wrote:

Racist isn't the word here is it?

Islam isn't a race, so therefore he isn't being racist

elite.mafia wrote:

Racist isn't the word here is it?

No, it isn't. Muslims can be Arab, Persian, White, Black, Turkish, South Asian, Chinese you name it they have it. It's not racist to hate a religion. I don't hate Muslims because they're a certain race (because as i just said, they're not) I just....don't really like Islam or any of the Abrahamic religions tbh (don't get me wrong, they may have had some decent messages and morals to get across, but that's not the case today. Christianity in America is a good example of that)

Read the Bible, Read the Qu'ran. Compare.

The information is readily available for you to learn about what you fear.

Edit * bit late eh

Last edited by dc_involved (2007-08-05 03:46:05)

mikkel wrote:

The sum of this topic is that despite everyone saying that no one wishes to cater to or appease extremists, it's still what lowing is going on about.

Essentially this is lowing arguing against an opinion that no one has, and refusing to accept that when people actually make him aware of it.

I am sorry, I am not the one who invented "Islamaphobia", people like you are. People like you are the ones who paint those of us who do not fear Islam but rather reject its extremist elements, as racists and bigots. It is after all the only weapon you have, since truth must be avoided by you.

But here is the truth anyway

Just as you insist on appeasement to try and stem the extremist element. I choose to stand up to it and not cater to it. Maybe you need to look up the definition of fear, appeasement, and defiance, and see that fear has little to do with defiance, and more to do with appeasement. Also see cowering.

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

The sum of this topic is that despite everyone saying that no one wishes to cater to or appease extremists, it's still what lowing is going on about.

Essentially this is lowing arguing against an opinion that no one has, and refusing to accept that when people actually make him aware of it.

I am sorry, I am not the one who invented "Islamaphobia", people like you are. People like you are the ones who paint those of us who do not fear Islam but rather reject its extremist elements, as racists and bigots. It is after all the only weapon you have, since truth must be avoided by you.

But here is the truth anyway

Just as you insist on appeasement to try and stem the extremist element. I choose to stand up to it and not cater to it. Maybe you need to look up the definition of fear, appeasement, and defiance, and see that fear has little to do with defiance, and more to do with appeasement. Also see cowering.

I think this is the seventh time I've told you that we put extremists in jail, and couldn't dream of appeasing them. And you accuse me of avoiding the truth? Heh.

ATG wrote:

cryptofcolumbus wrote:

I think you're looking for bigot

In what way?
He's in Iraq. Where are you?

What, Iraq has no bigots? Why exactly is it that it matters where he is?

It is a little hard to throw people in jail BEFORE they turn extremist isn't it. It is better to appease them to keep them from doing so isn't it?

So why are you calling me an Islamaphobe when you are the ones that choose appeasement for FEAR of the emergence of an extremist?

and why, if you approve of this action, do you find it so hard and distasteful to admit it?

Last edited by lowing (2007-08-05 04:35:10)