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Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5743|USA
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ … ws_rssfeed

Long article, good if your bored. Discuss.

Last edited by Mason4Assassin444 (2007-08-03 10:48:32)

Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|5377|Bloomington Indiana
yeah, i think what they are doing is great. *edit..albeit entrapment*

granted they arent catching everyone who does it...but by airing it on TV maybe they are deterring people from thinking about doing it later.

i think its making examples of these fools more than its prosecuting them

Last edited by Schwarzelungen (2007-08-03 11:37:20)

lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|5910|Denver colorado
Even know i think that what they are doing to catch the people is kind of legally unfair the fact that the retards are dumb enough to use a chatroom makes up for that.
topal63
. . .
+533|5799
Retarded show - for retards! http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66246
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,925|5713|949

Schwarzelungen wrote:

yeah, i think what they are doing is great.

granted they arent catching everyone who does it...but by airing it on TV maybe they are deterring people from thinking about doing it later.
See, I disagree.  Allowing a vigilante-style group to impersonate little kids and then a newsman to impersonate a police officer is not conducive to keeping predator-pedophiles off the street (in my opinion).

Perverted Justice has actually been deputized in order to maintain legality for this operation.  Dateline routinely adds ridiculous demands like, "show up naked" or "bring beers and a condom" strictly to humiliate the person.  If you watched any of the shows, you can see that the host (his name escapes me right now) purposely ignores questions about who he is to maintain an air of officialdom.

I am all for capturing and prosecuting predator-pedophiles.  I just see this show as the most ass-backwards (and illegal and "entertainment-style") way of doing it.  Clearly law enforcement and NBC executives agree with me to some extent, seeing as a former employee of the show sued and numerous DAs have refused to file criminal charges against the alleged criminals.

To me, it seems Perverted Justice and Dateline have their own motives for the show, and nowhere on the list is catching predator-pedophiles.

Perverted Justice - legitimacy for their organization, press, monetary compensation

Dateline - dolla dolla bills y'all

sorry, I didn't read the article either.  I'm sure it probably covers what I just said.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-08-03 11:13:20)

HeadShotAK47
Hand's shaken' / Heart's beatn' / Still Shootin'
+32|5807|Ft. Laudy, FL, USA
i like the show but I don't like their methods of catching these people. the "predators" haven't done any crimes yet because no minors are actually involved. it's unrealistic because what 14 yr old girl is like "i'm horny, there's no one home, i don't kno u, I'm not scared of crazy male strangers because I'm a girl...let's fuck." It doesn't a happen and any stupid girl that really does this deserves to get her dumbass raped. if they wwant sex that bad they'd prolly just call up one of their guy friends. These guys face extremely harsh sentences (5-10 yr) just for showing up to the house. now if they actually touched the female actress, I'd say that's potential for prosecution, but even then, she's an actress and over 18, so wtf?It's like cops who pretend to be prostitutes to arrest truckers etc. Its like they set up perfect situations to MAKE people commit crimes. They give them false senses of security so they'll do it. Then they arrest them. I just think it's messed up, but i agree with arresting and harshly charging REAL abusors/sexorz.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5743|USA
Did anyone read the article?
topal63
. . .
+533|5799

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Did anyone read the article?
Yes
&
I've commented on this show before here: (Watching "date lines to catch a preditor") http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66246

Last edited by topal63 (2007-08-03 11:30:37)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,925|5713|949

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Did anyone read the article?
Just finished it.
Villain{NY}
Banned
+44|5425|New York

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Did anyone read the article?
Yes, and thanks for posting.

While they seem to overly enjoy humiliating their victims I believe Perverted Justice is doing a service to the community, let's face it most local law enforcement agencies are stretched too thin to be constantly policing the Internet so it's a good to have a dedicated group to do it for them. 

NBC's next show should be "To Castrate a Predator," where these offenders are strapped down and have their balls removed with rusty razor dipped in lemon juice and salt, definitely Must See T.V.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|5651|Portland, OR, USA

Villain{NY} wrote:

NBC's next show should be "To Castrate a Predator," where these offenders are strapped down and have their balls removed with rusty razor dipped in lemon juice and salt, definitely Must See T.V.
That hurt me.

I think the show is terrible though.  They think they're doing us some service by showing us what's wrong with our society... when they're (the media) a much larger part of the problem...
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5743|USA

topal63 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Did anyone read the article?
Yes
&
I've commented on this show before here: (Watching "date lines to catch a preditor") http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66246
Thats nice. The article outlines why this is entrapment. Im not discussing the show, but rather the contents of the story about the show.
topal63
. . .
+533|5799

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Did anyone read the article?
Yes
&
I've commented on this show before here: (Watching "date lines to catch a preditor") http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66246
Thats nice. The article outlines why this is entrapment. Im not discussing the show, but rather the contents of the story about the show.
It's clearly entrappment (IMO), and worse it's an issue-reality-distraction for dumbasses.

(Watching "date lines to catch a preditor")
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=66246

topal63 wrote:

I could care less about the morality, legality of it... as a show it is typical American fodder.

It is easy to sit back - and say "lock em up" - they broke the damn law(!)

But not to long ago it was not even abnormal for girls to be married-off by age 13 or 14.
Also the girl is actually 19 and semi-attractive. To me all men are sexual predators to some degree. It isn't called sexual-predation when you're good-enough looking and possess a fairly normal attractive personality / persona. Then, when you have actual sexual choices, when you can pursue sexual interest / desire in a manner that conforms, more or less, to a social-norm, you can even be something to be admired by other men.

What this show demonstrates is Americas' Love for seeing others fail in life... and then enjoy the judging of them. It is a TV-Show, it is first and foremost a disturbing form of American entertainment.

What I see is pathetic losers, existing outside the choices and opportunities (sexually speaking), that I had / have. They seem utterly desperate for female companionship and are often thrilled at the idea of finally getting laid. In one show a man (an immigrant, either from India or Pakistan) takes a bus to a train station, then the train, then a cab, something like a 3 or 4 hour commute on the pretext of finally getting laid for once...

Only to find himself, a setup for a TV-show (with actual legal ramifications), all to willing to expose his absurd-pathetic desire / need - to a judging ignorant equally pathetic public. This guy (this new-immigrant) then in a confused state says, "I deed not know dat dis was someting dat was illegal?"

Elamdri wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Any law even a small one - can get you in serious trouble. You must know this... also consider just how much research goes into a defense (defending a client). That's like saying basically everyone should know the complete extent of the law (which is a massive mountain! beyond any humans mind; or ability; to hold in absolute-complete-form); in essence every man / woman / child / immigrant / etc should have a law degree - to understand the full context & nuances of law.

If this immigrant simply understood just one nuance of law, he could have avoided legalized-entrapment, he could have "said to the girl, you're not 14, you're lying." All things being considered - this is true.
Yes, but child molestation is not a nuance. And it is beyond preposterous that this man came to America not understanding the notion of the legality of sex with a child. To suggest that this man had never once in his long life heard of child molestation laws in western countries is beyond ignorance.

"Ignoratia Legis Non Excusat" "Ignorance of The Law is Not an Excuse"

this is a legal ultimate. You cannot claim that simply because you were not aware of the law, you shouldn't be held to it.

Now, this is taken under the context that the laws are appropriately published and reasonably accessible, which, in the case of child molestation, they are. You don't have to have a law degree to take a general look at society and see what laws are important.

It is one thing to suggest that you didn't know it wasn't legal to do a U-turn in Illinois because you live in Florida where it is legal.

Its another thing Entirely to suggest that you didn't know it wasn't ok to rape and murder because it's legal in your country.
Like I said I don't really care about the legality of it, nor the morality of it...

Laws change over time.
Morality is not a constant.

The show is parade of the pathetic so that the other pathetics can sit back in judgment and enjoy the train-wreck. The show draws the pathetic out of people using the invention of the Internet.

Also:
... Yes, but child molestation is not a nuance.... Now, this is taken under the context that the laws are appropriately published and reasonably accessible, which, in the case of child molestation ...
It is not molestation, that is a physical sexual-act, this is solicitation... something different.

Its another thing Entirely to suggest that you didn't know it wasn't ok to rape...
One could easily make an argument that statutory rape - is hardly a moral question in many individual circumstances - yet it is always illegal. And, then there is the obvious - that 18 years old is an arbitrary line / limit. It is a best attempt effort to try and consider maturity when contemplating the issue (the law).
Statutory Rape laws are based on the premise that until a person reaches a certain age, that individual is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse. Thus, it is a crime for an adult to have sexual intercourse with a person under the legal age of consent, which is 18 years of age. California's statutory rape law is found in Penal Code Section 261.5. California has begun a concerted effort to use its statutory rape laws as a means of reducing pregnancies and births among minors. The attempt was prompted by recent research indicating that two-thirds of babies born to school-aged mothers in the state were fathered by adult men, who, on average, were more than four years older than their adolescent partners.

    * The severity of the punishment depends on the relative ages of the two people, either of whom may be male or female.
    * It is a misdemeanor for a person who is at least 18 years old to have sexual intercourse with a minor who is three years younger than that person.
    * If the victim is more than three years younger than the perpetrator, the crime can be either a misdemeanor or a felony.
    * If the victim is under the age of 16 and the perpetrator is 21 years of age or older, and they engage in sexual intercourse, the crime can be either a misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in county jail or imprisonment in the state prison for 2, 3, or 4 years.
    * In addition to criminal penalties, there may be civil penalties as well. The district attorney may bring actions to recover civil penalties.
    * An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor less than two years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty up to $2,000.
    * An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor at least two years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty up to $5,000.
    * An adult who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor at least three years younger than the adult is liable for a civil penalty up to $10,000.
    * An adult over the age of 21 years who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor under 16 years of age is liable for a civil penalty up to $25,000.
These laws [above]; and the application thereof; appear partly to be in response to the statistics gather by sociological studies. They are in sense a response to a trend; not in response to an absolute morality of 18 being a sign of passage into maturity.

Sometimes the pathetic:
http://www.gawker.com/news/dateline/to- … 200594.php
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/1088406 … p;psp=news
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0627-24.htm

& Then the rare, the actually dangerous:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10912603/

To catch a predator (satire):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OdjMaGCr7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns2ohrlLhTk (conebone69)

Criticism:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/03/28 … 5230.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/04/10 … 3718.shtml
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar … -1/CITIZEN
http://sethabramson.blogspot.com/2006/0 … o-gin.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13529278/site/newsweek/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-weg … 1.html?p=2

Pubic wrote:

The girl was 14 & made that clear?  Then the guy should be arrested.  Granted they shouldn't have misrepresented her like that, and they were trying to entrap him but...a pedo is a pedo is a pedo...
Nope the girl was 19 and lied about it.

And, I am fairly certain that a pedophile has a specific pathology. I am currently trying to find out if this series actually catches the pathological or draws-out an Internet voyeur into committing a pathetic crime (that they are not actual pathological-pedo.s). I am curious if there is actual statistics available on such; or what % are pathological and what % are not. (I am only interested in the numbers; the mathematical percentage).

http://www.gazettes.com/predator09142006.html
These men were not the “classic pedophile” profile, Cannan said. Rather, these tended to be men who spent most of their time in front of a computer and were sucked into a fantasy world that they then tried to make real, he said.

While this type of Internet solicitation of minors is growing, it is still a small amount of the sexual crimes against children.

According to the Department of Justice’s 2002 statistics, strangers (such as what happened with these online crimes) accounted for just 7% of the sexual crimes against children. Family members, immediate or more distant, still commit the majority of these crimes, Cannan said. Family friends and acquaintances also account for a large percentage of the crimes
Diss-info-tainment:
http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/Archives/C062706.htm
No wonder the networks’ news divisions are indistinguishable from their entertainment function. One running example stands out as an illustration of the networks’ degradation — and irresponsibility.

... The most glaring thing about Dateline’s “Predator” series isn’t the overkill, the ethically compromised nature of the show’s relationship with police and Perverted-Justice, or even the tawdriness of Chris Hanson playing a pathetic game of gotcha with pathetic individuals. It’s the fact that the whole premise of the series is based on a lie: That there’s “an epidemic of sexual predators in our country,” and that based on “a recent study,” according to NBC, “one in five children online is approached by a sexual predator, a predator who may try to set up a face-to-face meeting.”

Not quite. Dateline, like the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, like other news reports citing the same myth, are relying on a study by the federal Office of Juvenile Justice that found that 19 percent of Internet users age 10-17 “received an unwanted sexual solicitation in the past year,” but three-quarters of those were from fellow-children or juveniles. Just 3 percent of youth Internet users “received an aggressive solicitation involving offline contact,” and “none of the solicitations led to an actual sexual contact or sexual assault.” An “epidemic” of predators? Hardly. Twenty percent of children online “approached by a sexual predator”? Ridiculous. There’s no question that Internet predators are a reality, and that children and parents need to be aware of the right precautions.
Reality check(!)
http://www.livescience.com/othernews/06 … panic.html
Recidivism revisited

Much of the concern over sex offenders stems from the perception that if they have committed one sex offense, they are almost certain to commit more. This is the reason given for why sex offenders (instead of, say, murderers or armed robbers) should be monitored and separated from the public once released from prison.

The high recidivism rate among sex offenders is repeated so often that it is usually accepted as truth, but in fact recent studies show that the recidivism rates for sex offenses is not unusually high. According to a U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics study ("Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994"), just five percent of sex offenders followed for three years after their release from prison in 1994 were arrested for another sex crime. A study released in 2003 by the Bureau found that within three years, 3.3 percent of the released child molesters were arrested again for committing another sex crime against a child. Three to five percent is hardly a high repeat offender rate.

In the largest and most comprehensive study ever done of prison recidivism, the Justice Department found that sex offenders were in fact less likely to reoffend than other criminals. The 2003 study of nearly 10,000 men convicted of rape, sexual assault, and child molestation found that sex offenders had a re-arrest rate 25 percent lower than for all other criminals. Part of the reason is that serial sex offenders—those who pose the greatest threat—rarely get released from prison, and the ones who do are unlikely to re-offend.

If sex offenders are no more likely to re-offend than murderers or armed robbers, there seems little justification for the public's fear, or for the monitoring laws tracking them. (Studies also suggest that sex offenders living near schools or playgrounds are no more likely to commit a sex crime than those living elsewhere.)

... One tragic result of these myths is that the panic over sex offenders distracts the public from a far greater threat to children: parental abuse and neglect.

Elamdri wrote:

Well, I'll agree with you topal, the show is really rather dull.
Ooh.. to true, and actually I was just riffing on some ideas lingering around in my noggin...

You know how little details change things dramatically like:
1.) Her lying and saying she is 17, when she is actually 19, it seems so much more outrageous and criminal when she lies and says "I am only 13."
Does the age of consent mean anything. For example, if it was a 16 year old, which is illegal in the USA, that show would be ridiculous in England, since that's the age of consent there.
2.) Mandatory sentencing - removing judgment - out of the role of being a judge.
3.) Lumping all things into an absolute moral stance; when all things are not that way.
4.) Knowing the actual truth...
5.) Etc.

Things like that... know what I mean?
+

Add to that this:
Prosecutor Kills Himself in Texas Raid Over Child Sex
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/us/07 … mp;emc=rss
Allison Gollust, an NBC News spokeswoman, said the crew for Dateline NBC’s “To Catch a Predator” series was taping as the police approached the house. But Ms. Gollust added that no one from Dateline had had contact with Mr. Conradt and that there was nothing to suggest that he had seen the crew before he turned the gun on himself.

“There’s absolutely no evidence that would suggest that he was aware of us,” Ms. Gollust said. “We don’t anticipate making a change to our reporting.”

Xavier Von Erck, director of operations with Perverted Justice, said Mr. Conradt had made contact in an AOL chat room with a decoy from Perverted Justice who was posing as a 13-year-old boy. Mr. Von Erck would not disclose the details of the chat, but he said, “It was sexual in nature.”

Unlike some suspects in pedophile stings that appear on “Dateline NBC,” Mr. Conradt had not actually met the person he thought was the teenager, but Sergeant Robertson said he planned to do so. Perverted Justice staff members found profiles from Mr. Conradt on AOL, Yahoo and MySpace.com, Mr. Von Erck said. He also said that he thought Mr. Conradt had tried to erase at least one online profile, on MySpace.com, a popular online social networking community used mainly by teenagers, in the moments before he shot himself.
Properly handled LAW enforcement could have arrested this man - without fanfare & TV cameras. But instead it was a media blitz, in which the entrapped man, committed suicide due to fear. He chatted it up with a liar (not a kid), did not meet anyone, was blitzed - then put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-08-03 12:16:56)

HeadShotAK47
Hand's shaken' / Heart's beatn' / Still Shootin'
+32|5807|Ft. Laudy, FL, USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Schwarzelungen wrote:

yeah, i think what they are doing is great.

granted they arent catching everyone who does it...but by airing it on TV maybe they are deterring people from thinking about doing it later.
See, I disagree.  Allowing a vigilante-style group to impersonate little kids and then a newsman to impersonate a police officer is not conducive to keeping predator-pedophiles off the street (in my opinion).

Perverted Justice has actually been deputized in order to maintain legality for this operation.  Dateline routinely adds ridiculous demands like, "show up naked" or "bring beers and a condom" strictly to humiliate the person.  If you watched any of the shows, you can see that the host (his name escapes me right now) purposely ignores questions about who he is to maintain an air of officialdom.

I am all for capturing and prosecuting predator-pedophiles.  I just see this show as the most ass-backwards (and illegal and "entertainment-style") way of doing it.  Clearly law enforcement and NBC executives agree with me to some extent, seeing as a former employee of the show sued and numerous DAs have refused to file criminal charges against the alleged criminals.

To me, it seems Perverted Justice and Dateline have their own motives for the show, and nowhere on the list is catching predator-pedophiles.

Perverted Justice - legitimacy for their organization, press, monetary compensation

Dateline - dolla dolla bills y'all

sorry, I didn't read the article either.  I'm sure it probably covers what I just said.
agreed
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5486|North Carolina
I wish they had a show called "To Catch a Corporate Embezzler".
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|5211|North Tonawanda, NY
It's more 'Think of the Children!' mentality, which can be destructive.  The show is absolute crap, and see topal63's post for the reason why.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2800
Found this channel through one of my true crime youtube channels. Basically this guys does the To Catch a Predator thing. But to make his videos different, he then has the predator call his loved ones to explain what is going on. So he had this guy call his wife and explain what he did. Later he has the guy do jumping jacks and sit ups.

Everyone in this video is deplorable. One of the worst things I have watched in awhile.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5852|USA

I still find myself agreeing with topal 14 years later, and it sucks that this sort of thing is still ongoing? Give people their time in court if need be. Keep that crap off TV.

Actual rapists get off with a slap on the wrist (20 minutes of fun!), but a pervert who actually didn't follow up on his online misbehavior gets cornered into a suicide, all in the name of reality TV.

Misery porn. The ghouls getting their rocks off to this sort of thing are also one of the things wrong with society.


Also, from 2015 on sex stings:

To Catch a Non-Predator, Try Entrapment
https://reason.com/2015/01/12/to-catch- … ntrapment/

excerpt wrote:

Why create "predators" who don't actually pose a threat to kids? As always: Follow the money. In fact, follow two sources:

1.) A man accused of looking for children online can have his property seized. The police may get to keep his stuff—even if charges are never actually filed:

Sex stings have become especially rich sources for seizures, since almost every man arrested is accused of traveling to seduce, solicit, or entice a child to commit a sexual act…even though no real children are ever involved in the stings. However, the accusations are felonies, meaning law enforcement can seize suspect's vehicles, making it extremely difficult for them to ever get them back without paying thousands of dollars – or more—in cash to the arresting agency.

2). The cops also get federal dollars to hunt for child predators. These particular Florida police were spending tens of thousands of dollars on each sting, "yet the majority of men arrested were either teenagers or in their 20s and not considered risks to children." They were trying to find girls about their own age. Many of the judges, thank goodness, smelled a rat and threw the cases out. Long story short:

"The stings offered a solution to a supposed widespread problem that didn't actually exist in Central Florida."

If you are convinced that children are under constant threat from predators online, and then go so far as to set up entire government departments to "catch" them, it will seem bewildering, frustrating, embarrassing or annoying not to be able to find them. And so, if you have zero scruples and a budget to spend, you will create them.
uziq
Member
+420|2533
chris hansen himself got in loads of shit in the dwindling days of his career. he tried to do the youtube-entrapment thing too.

the above video seems fake. it's totally unbelievable how supplicant and helpless that 'predator' seems. there's a big business in fake-staged bounty hunters and vigilantes on youtube.



the whole thing is depressing. TCAP! and shows like that rightfully belong to another era. like jeremy kyle/jeremy springer, they're just feasts of human misery and the hosts get off on all sorts of power trips.

plus, who actually wants to spend their time watching 30-minute videos, staged or not, of pedophiles being entrapped and getting humiliated? what the fuck is that? if i had kids myself, i sure as hell wouldn't spend my time watching pedophiles get their comeuppance. it's just totally weird and full of all sorts of queasy sexual psychodynamics. the audience and 'community' for this stuff are creepy as fuck.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-03 20:47:42)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2800
I don't think the video is fake. Modern social media probably makes it easy to find guys who allow themselves to be put into bad situations. I am sure many fall victim to entrapment like tactics. Oh well.

The true crime documentary was very critical of what these guys and Chris H. do too. Without a hint of irony, the true crime channel warned viewers not to find entertainment in the misery of others.

If social media existed in the 1910's there would probably be "gay hunters" out there. You know how gay bashers are oftentimes closet cases? After this whole QAnon thing I now assume anyone making a show out of hating pedophiles are secret pedophiles themselves.

Also SNL regarding the True Crime phenomena:

https://youtu.be/J4RdcE6H4Gs
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

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