ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command
Certain groups within the United States government are obsessed with surrendering our borders and laws.
They represent a clearer and more present danger than any Muslim fanatic. Our Soldiers swear an oath to defend our country from all enemies foriegn and domestic.  Clearly our nation is being attacked and destroyed.  Will the soldiers ever stop the madness?

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic … mp;sp=true
U.S. District Judge James Munley said the city of Hazleton, 100 miles north of Philadelphia, was not allowed to implement a law that would fine businesses that hire illegal immigrants and penalize landlords who rent rooms to them.
I just love how whenever I get on a tirade about this issue it eventually gets stated that employers who hire illegal aliens should be fined and/or jailed. The situation has been let get so far out of hand that you have to wonder why they just don't declare Mexico and America to be one country.

In fact, this is the agenda of the republicans and democrats. The problem is that the spineless bastards know that such a thing could never happen via law enacted by Congress. The way to get this done is to allow so many illegal aliens in that they can say " you can't deport millions of people, something has to be done to normalize them. "

The city of 30,000 blames a recent rise in illegal immigration for boosting crime and overburdening social services. The law was passed in July 2006 but was not implemented because of a court injunction won by opponents.

About a third of the city's residents are immigrants from Central America and around a quarter of the immigrant population is believed to be undocumented
This story is from Pennsylvania, not terribly far from the Canadian border. 

Here in Los Angeles we have one state senator named Gil Cedillo. All this guy does is write different versions of bill that would grant drivers licenses to illegal aliens. It's all he does. He is called one bill Gil.

He's getting more ambitious now; http://www.istillhaveadream.org/SB160.html

This details his bill to give financial aid to illegal aliens who would like to attend California universities.


http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001510.html






Shear madness.
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6267|Bloomington Indiana
jesus christ.
im getting pretty sick of all of this.  although far be it to expect anyone with power to do something about it.

so we give illegals a drivers license and they kill someone..what then
*it happened in my town last year*  pretty sure he got a slap on the wrist

*my apologies for not having a better contribution...my brains fried from work*

Last edited by Schwarzelungen (2007-07-26 15:49:27)

topal63
. . .
+533|6689
Have you ever hired an illegal alien?

Have you ever paid any money to an illegal alien - for any service - ever?

Honesty would be nice, just curious?
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6101|North Tonawanda, NY

ATG wrote:

This details his bill to give financial aid to illegal aliens who would like to attend California universities.

Shear madness.
I agree.  It is madness.

Student aid to illegals?  Bullshit.  Citizens should get more aid.  College already costs too much.

Allow business owners to hire illegals?  Bullshit.  They ought to be fined for that crap.

Its a touchy subject, but people should immigrate legally to the US instead of breaking the law.  The US should do more to enforce the immigration laws that are on the books already.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6592|London, England
Because Profit > Sovereignty


Actually Profit > Anything

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-07-26 15:56:09)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command

topal63 wrote:

Have you ever hired an illegal alien?

Have you ever paid any money to an illegal alien - for any service - ever?

Honesty would be nice, just curious?
Here we go.


yes, I have three mexican that work for me. One has been with seven years and made about 56k last year.

He has taxes withheld, just like everybody else. He has a IRS issued pin number. Long term employed illegal aliens receive tax returns just like everybody else.
There is a system in place already. 80% of illegals get checks for pay, not cash. If a company issues a check, there are taxes withheld. The majority of the aliens never get a return. 

As far as my perspective from the front lines there is a huge labor shortage issue. I don't have a problem with bringing people in to work.
It is the complete denial and failure of the government to address the issue that is being debated by me. I'm all for some sort of drivers license for immigrant workers. If your one of the " if you have Mexicans working for you, so stfu " crowd then please go find another thread.

If you run a small business in California you have illegal aliens working. It like air. You have to breath.

I would give up anything to have this problem addressed once and for all. The ISSUE is the way it is happening.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command

SenorToenails wrote:

ATG wrote:

This details his bill to give financial aid to illegal aliens who would like to attend California universities.

Shear madness.
I agree.  It is madness.

Student aid to illegals?  Bullshit.  Citizens should get more aid.  College already costs too much.

Allow business owners to hire illegals?  Bullshit.  They ought to be fined for that crap.

Its a touchy subject, but people should immigrate legally to the US instead of breaking the law.  The US should do more to enforce the immigration laws that are on the books already.
I guess you missed this part of the article;
\
U.S. District Judge James Munley said the city of Hazleton, 100 miles north of Philadelphia, was not allowed to implement a law that would fine businesses that hire illegal immigrants and penalize landlords who rent rooms to them.



It's illegal to fine employers. Got any other ideas?
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6101|North Tonawanda, NY

ATG wrote:

I guess you missed this part of the article;
\
U.S. District Judge James Munley said the city of Hazleton, 100 miles north of Philadelphia, was not allowed to implement a law that would fine businesses that hire illegal immigrants and penalize landlords who rent rooms to them.



It's illegal to fine employers. Got any other ideas?
I saw that... I guess I didn't make that very clear.  They ought to be able to fine employers, and I think that the judge's ruling is bullshit.  I don't have any better ideas though.
topal63
. . .
+533|6689

ATG wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Have you ever hired an illegal alien?

Have you ever paid any money to an illegal alien - for any service - ever?

Honesty would be nice, just curious?
Here we go.


yes, I have three mexican that work for me. One has been with seven years and made about 56k last year.

He has taxes withheld, just like everybody else. He has a IRS issued pin number. Long term employed illegal aliens receive tax returns just like everybody else.
There is a system in place already. 80% of illegals get checks for pay, not cash. If a company issues a check, there are taxes withheld. The majority of the aliens never get a return. 

As far as my perspective from the front lines there is a huge labor shortage issue. I don't have a problem with bringing people in to work.
It is the complete denial and failure of the government to address the issue that is being debated by me. I'm all for some sort of drivers license for immigrant workers. If your one of the " if you have Mexicans working for you, so stfu " crowd then please go find another thread.

If you run a small business in California you have illegal aliens working. It like air. You have to breath.

I would give up anything to have this problem addressed once and for all. The ISSUE is the way it is happening.
I wasn't condeming your opinion, or attempting to derail the thread, crap, you already know I like you personally (even though we've never met in the real world). I must admit I have hard time understanding the logic oft times - even when I understand the sentiment (where your heart is at - on an issue).

It's just something made me think, the way you worded it. It seems you are on two sides of the fence. It has worked for you - therefore it is OK. If another business does it (or many businesses do it) - then we can expect a polemic about how the country is being ruined as the liberal system is failing to stop the tide. Then again there is this: you do care about the actual people (the Mexicans, & Americans affected) and this is in conflict with you caring about the American State (border control, sovereignty, etc).

Maybe it is, in part, a case of America having growing pains. Mass immigration/emigrations can take decades for a culture to sort out/absorb. But, something does have to be done: some sort of compromise of amnesty (for some, at least those who have not committed a crime) + a way of penalizing the money flow out of America back to Mexico (or encouraging them to invest in America, keep the money here instead of sending it back to their families in Mexico?) + stopping the flow (this utterly unregulated, mass immigration without any control is ridiculous).

Then there are the bankers; politicians... who do want a border-less North America trading zone (Canada, America, Mexico). Not sure how many Americans know - how serious they are - and what they've done already.

Like this (the North American Union): http://www.augustreview.com/issues/gene … 200608181/

Last edited by topal63 (2007-07-26 16:33:06)

Smitty5613
Member
+46|6497|Middle of nowhere, California
there is nuthin wrong with Mexicans... as long as they are legal...
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6622|USA
Giving up our sovereignty, seems to be a necessary first step if President H. Clinton is going to follow through with turning over the US to UN puppet masters.

Last edited by lowing (2007-07-26 18:16:23)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6261|Éire
What is so wrong about trying to regulate the influx of immigrants?

Those that are required for certain jobs and want to work and pose no threat to society (prior criminal records etc.) can be recognised by the state, given the proper status and thus work and contribute to society. Those that are found to be freeloaders or a danger to society can be screened and thrown back across the border. People who make money exploiting the immigrants themselves and cheat the State out of taxes and so on should be duly punished.

We had a big news story in Ireland this week about a big family of Romany gypsies who came over from Romania and set up home on a roundabout! They were threatening local kids and teenagers who came near the site and my girlfriend (who works near the site) had been hearing stories of attempted car-jackings being carried out by the gypsy youths ...they got served with deportation notices this week, proper fucking order!
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command

topal63 wrote:

I wasn't condeming your opinion, or attempting to derail the thread, crap, you already know I like you personally (even though we've never met in the real world). I must admit I have hard time understanding the logic oft times - even when I understand the sentiment (where your heart is at - on an issue).
The more complex an issue, the more convoluted my argument may appear.  But, why would you like me if my logic is oft times incoherent?
btw, I like you too 


topal63 wrote:

Then again there is this: you do care about the actual people (the Mexicans, & Americans affected) and this is in conflict with you caring about the American State (border control, sovereignty, etc).
Ask the immigrants themselves; they say not having legal channels to come up to work means hundreds die every year trying to illegally cross.
The way the government is not dealing with it is killing the immigrants, depressing wages and standards of living in America, and it screws the people that are working out of the tax returns they would other wise get if there was a  system for them.
In none of my threads have I called for the mass deportation of Mexicans. I expect our government to do it's job. They don't count them in census they don't plan for them when they build freeways and sewer systems.


topal63 wrote:

Maybe it is, in part, a case of America having growing pains.  (this utterly unregulated, mass immigration without any control is ridiculous).
Agreed.
elstonieo
Oil 4 Euros not $$$
+20|6308|EsSeX

lowing wrote:

Giving up our sovereignty, seems to be a necessary first step if President H. Clinton is going to follow through with turning over the US to UN puppet masters.
der the US is the UN puppet master
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Certain groups within the United States government are obsessed with surrendering our borders and laws.
They represent a clearer and more present danger than any Muslim fanatic. Our Soldiers swear an oath to defend our country from all enemies foriegn and domestic.  Clearly our nation is being attacked and destroyed.  Will the soldiers ever stop the madness?

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic … mp;sp=true
U.S. District Judge James Munley said the city of Hazleton, 100 miles north of Philadelphia, was not allowed to implement a law that would fine businesses that hire illegal immigrants and penalize landlords who rent rooms to them.
I just love how whenever I get on a tirade about this issue it eventually gets stated that employers who hire illegal aliens should be fined and/or jailed. The situation has been let get so far out of hand that you have to wonder why they just don't declare Mexico and America to be one country.

In fact, this is the agenda of the republicans and democrats. The problem is that the spineless bastards know that such a thing could never happen via law enacted by Congress. The way to get this done is to allow so many illegal aliens in that they can say " you can't deport millions of people, something has to be done to normalize them. "

The city of 30,000 blames a recent rise in illegal immigration for boosting crime and overburdening social services. The law was passed in July 2006 but was not implemented because of a court injunction won by opponents.

About a third of the city's residents are immigrants from Central America and around a quarter of the immigrant population is believed to be undocumented
This story is from Pennsylvania, not terribly far from the Canadian border. 

Here in Los Angeles we have one state senator named Gil Cedillo. All this guy does is write different versions of bill that would grant drivers licenses to illegal aliens. It's all he does. He is called one bill Gil.

He's getting more ambitious now; http://www.istillhaveadream.org/SB160.html

This details his bill to give financial aid to illegal aliens who would like to attend California universities.


http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001510.html






Shear madness.
While I agree with the principle behind this thread, I still have to harp on what you mentioned about employers.

Yeah, I know you're referring to some of the stuff I've posted, but honestly, your argument that you hire illegals because the situation is desperate is just the same as the arguments used by illegals themselves who enter the U.S.

The illegals claim things are so desperate in Mexico that they have to flee to the U.S. to make decent money for their families.

So really, the small business owners and the illegals are in the same boat.  It is true that our government (and the Mexican government) have created this situation, as have the big corporations that hire illegals.

Yet, the situation is so thoroughly fucked that I'm starting to welcome the thought of this country collapsing...  It may take a class war to set things right, and I'd be more than happy to accumulate my own arsenal for the purpose of "promoting justice", if you know what I mean....
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command
Yup.
Vote with explosives.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6519|San Diego, CA, USA
Three words...One World Government.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Three words...One World Government.
...and Global Capitalism is leading us right into it....
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6622|USA

elstonieo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Giving up our sovereignty, seems to be a necessary first step if President H. Clinton is going to follow through with turning over the US to UN puppet masters.
der the US is the UN puppet master
An argument could be made to support that, however, I am speaking in the future when Hitlery becomes president and she hands over the US to the UN to dictate our foriegn policy for us.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

elstonieo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Giving up our sovereignty, seems to be a necessary first step if President H. Clinton is going to follow through with turning over the US to UN puppet masters.
der the US is the UN puppet master
An argument could be made to support that, however, I am speaking in the future when Hitlery becomes president and she hands over the US to the UN to dictate our foriegn policy for us.
Do you really think Hillary will win?  If she gets the nomination, she's going to lose by a landslide -- unless the Republicans run someone REALLY unpopular.

As things currently stand, it looks like Thompson (a.k.a. - lobbyist whore) is a shoe-in for the nomination and the election itself.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6622|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

elstonieo wrote:


der the US is the UN puppet master
An argument could be made to support that, however, I am speaking in the future when Hitlery becomes president and she hands over the US to the UN to dictate our foriegn policy for us.
Do you really think Hillary will win?  If she gets the nomination, she's going to lose by a landslide -- unless the Republicans run someone REALLY unpopular.

As things currently stand, it looks like Thompson (a.k.a. - lobbyist whore) is a shoe-in for the nomination and the election itself.
I predict a Hitlery nomination and victory, yes
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


An argument could be made to support that, however, I am speaking in the future when Hitlery becomes president and she hands over the US to the UN to dictate our foriegn policy for us.
Do you really think Hillary will win?  If she gets the nomination, she's going to lose by a landslide -- unless the Republicans run someone REALLY unpopular.

As things currently stand, it looks like Thompson (a.k.a. - lobbyist whore) is a shoe-in for the nomination and the election itself.
I predict a Hitlery nomination and victory, yes
For what it's worth, I'd rather see Hillary win than Thompson, but that's like deciding between getting shot in the face and shot in the balls.  Either way, it sucks....
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6519|San Diego, CA, USA

topal63 wrote:

Have you ever hired an illegal alien?

Have you ever paid any money to an illegal alien - for any service - ever?

Honesty would be nice, just curious?
I personally have not, but I think my father did when I was a teenager.  I believe he hired two illegal alien workers to help dig the footing for a wall in our backyard about 15 years ago.  The dirt was so solid we got a jackhammer to break the dirt apart.



If the Federal government is responsible for policing illegal aliens then why can't they delicate the task to state and local manisipalities?  What's the big deal if someone who is arrested for a crime, who doesn't have a license, be reported to the INS (Internal Naturalization Service - responsible for handling illegal aliens)?

Those states of local manisipalities who don't report illegal aliens should not expect federal funding.  Pretty simple.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6466
Look, the bill of rights protects all people in the nation. If it violates the bill of rights, the law cannot stand in the US. They need to find a different approach.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6519|San Diego, CA, USA

Braddock wrote:

What is so wrong about trying to regulate the influx of immigrants?

Those that are required for certain jobs and want to work and pose no threat to society...
I lost my job about 4 years ago to 3 Chinese programmers.  How do you compete with someone willing to work for 1/3 your pay?

Illegal immigrants depress wages in whatever industry they are in.  Even though businessmen can save costs, the costs that an illegal alien has on society with social services outweighs the benefit even when the illegal alien pays taxes.

The average illegal alien, according to the Heritage Foundation, made about $30,000 last year.  They paid, on average, $1,500 in taxes, but use on average $10,000.  If they became legal then they would pay approximately $1,500 more in taxes, but still use more social services.

The social services mentioned include, health care, education, and social security over their life-time.



Solution:
  • National tamper-proof ID cards for everyone
  • A quick, VISA/Mastercard like check for employers, to see who is here legally and can work legally
  • A physical fence at the southern border to deter illegal immigration.
  • A virtual fence at places where it makes no sense to put a physical fence (UAVs, sensors, cameras) at both borders
  • Double border patrol.
  • Give Border Patrol more non-lethal weapons and define engagement more clearly (illegal throw rocks or use slingshots with marbles alot).
  • Increase the number of 'beds' for illegal aliens in transit.
  • Put a bounty for reporting illegal aliens.
  • Criminal who are illegal aliens are required to serve their jail time for their crime, plus 6 months, and then immediately deported and fined.
  • Any non-criminal who is here illegally are fined, serves 6 month jail time (to deter them), then are deported immediately.
  • Criminalize people who overstay their VISAs with 6 months in jail and fines.
  • A Constitutional Amendment that says at least 1 parent is not a legal American citizen then the child born on United States soil is not an American citizen (no more Anchor Babies).

Last edited by Harmor (2007-07-27 08:22:36)

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