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2007-07-23 16:57:47
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command
This is easy:

your government ( if you're American ) is a slanderous, traitorous bitch who is busy giving away our tax dollars and national treasure. They don't enforce the borders.

It is everyman for himself.



You think the cops are there to protect you?
Wrong.
They are there to clean up the bodies.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap … rotect.htm
2007-07-23 17:30:37
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6691|United States of America

ATG wrote:

This is easy:

your government ( if you're American ) is a slanderous, traitorous bitch who is busy giving away our tax dollars and national treasure. They don't enforce the borders.

It is everyman for himself.



You think the cops are there to protect you?
Wrong.
They are there to clean up the bodies.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap … rotect.htm
You watched Sin City, too eh? The Senators are the crooked brothers of the clergy and the cops set up the frame on the good guys who can't fight alone.
2007-07-23 20:41:32
T.Pike
99 Problems . . .
+187|6289|Pennsyltucky

Personally I don't believe in violence, unfortunately that's the only thing some people understand.

That's why I own a firearm.
2007-07-23 20:52:09
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command

DesertFox- wrote:

ATG wrote:

This is easy:

your government ( if you're American ) is a slanderous, traitorous bitch who is busy giving away our tax dollars and national treasure. They don't enforce the borders.

It is everyman for himself.



You think the cops are there to protect you?
Wrong.
They are there to clean up the bodies.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap … rotect.htm
You watched Sin City, too eh? The Senators are the crooked brothers of the clergy and the cops set up the frame on the good guys who can't fight alone.
I don't watch tv.
2007-07-23 20:55:53
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6555|San Diego, CA, USA

Vilham wrote:

Im staying out of this one. I already know gun ownership is a proven rubbish idea.
For someone who plays BF2 :-P
2007-07-23 21:07:06
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6691|United States of America

ATG wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

ATG wrote:

This is easy:

your government ( if you're American ) is a slanderous, traitorous bitch who is busy giving away our tax dollars and national treasure. They don't enforce the borders.

It is everyman for himself.

You think the cops are there to protect you?
Wrong.
They are there to clean up the bodies.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap … rotect.htm
You watched Sin City, too eh? The Senators are the crooked brothers of the clergy and the cops set up the frame on the good guys who can't fight alone.
I don't watch tv.
Meh, I was saying that just because your comments seem to follow part of the plot of the film.


Harmor wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Im staying out of this one. I already know gun ownership is a proven rubbish idea.
For someone who plays BF2 :-P
For them it's rubbish; if they get 'em again they'll try to conquer the world again.

Last edited by DesertFox- (2007-07-23 21:07:47)

2007-07-24 00:48:38
BVC
Member
+325|6702
I don't own one, but I'd like to go hunting with one.
2007-07-24 08:53:34
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6700|San Francisco
I own one because target shooting is a hobby of mine.  Paper targets and stress relieving fun.

And so I'm ready to join up with any armed revolt against the government.
2007-07-24 10:23:08
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6786|Great Brown North

west-phoenix-az wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Why punish everyone for the hobby of the few?
I know very few people who have been victims of violent crimes involving firearms. Those that have put themselves in that situations and were not exactly innocent. The amount of people victimized daily by gun violence is not even close to the number of people who enjoy a firearm related hobby daily. It really is not a hobby of the few - its much larger than you think. If the majority of people agreed that guns should be outlawed there would be more anti-gun laws being passed. Currently some gun laws are being overturned, more states are allowing concealed carry and laws are being placed on the books to protect those involved in justified shootings.

These threads never go anywhere. Minds are almost never changed and they just result in people insulting each other.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123 … dhorse.gif

I really don't care what people outside of our country think about our rights and laws. They have not grown up here, they do no understand our society. Its sad so many believe everything they read in the newspapers, internet and see on TV. The firearm society of the USA is really a friendly group of people who are not the violent rednecks many see us as. Guns don't make good people go bad.

Most anti-gun or on the fence people I have met never fired a firearm or knew the laws involving them. Taking someone shooting can sometimes change their mind. If you are pro-gun share your sport and invite others to shoot with you.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123 … ack-01.gif http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123 … ack-01.gif
QFT
2007-07-24 20:45:13
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6411|North Carolina

Pisacis wrote:

I'm aware this is an age-old debate, but selfishly I just wanted some personal interaction with others regarding gun laws and whatnot. So even if this is retreading infinitely covered old ground, fresh debate rarely leads to increased ignorance - it'll be an elucidating discussion for all. Hopefully.

Anyway, my question (and, it has to be said, it goes out mainly to Americans) is simple. How can you justify owning a personal firearm? My personal point of view is that violence begets violence, and the problem is a reactionary, reciprocal one. Between the police, gangs and deranged rednecks, pissing contests over who has the biggest weapon (intentional AND hilarious) lead to people owning M-16s and shit like that. If no-one had these guns in the first place, no-one else would feel the need to go get one for themselves. I know it's a naive position to hold, but if purchasing guns - based on the assumption that a nationwide armistice is impossible - was better controlled, then we wouldn't see the kind of things that are freakishly common in the states.

This leads me on to my second point: massacres. Just go to Wikipedia and look up the "2006 School shooting outbreak", and articles on Columbine, Virginia Tech... the list goes on. If these kids hadn't been able to get their ammo at the fucking supermarket, maybe the thought wouldn't have crossed their minds. How many times have European schoolkids got a little pissed off at the world and killed 30 peers and teachers? That's a rhetorical question.

Anyway, I'm not trying to pretend that I'm being original or groundbreaking or even clever by bringing this up, it's just something I'd like to see discussed in a manner I can take a personal interest in. And on a forum for a video-game in which you shoot people for fun, it's an interesting backdrop to such a question.

Anyway, go wild.
How do Europeans justify having figurehead monarchies?  The same reason....  Tradition.
2007-07-24 20:57:15
elstonieo
Oil 4 Euros not $$$
+20|6344|EsSeX

Turquoise wrote:

How do Europeans justify having figurehead monarchies?  The same reason....  Tradition.
most people don't want the monarchies (not all country's are the same on this issue)
but just enough people don't want change so we are stuck, down with the house of tossers(lords) I want proportional representation
2007-07-24 21:05:26
killajamz666
Member
+0|6150|NJ, USA
i just love how europeans and other people from other countries just keep on trash talking america and all its flaws, if it wasnt for us you guys would be nothing...and also we have guns to protect us from people who hate america and are crazy i guess none of your countries expierence this becasue you guys are such peace loving hippes eh?
2007-07-24 21:12:26
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|6836|Denver colorado
ATG. Although I didn't really agree on the whole "the worlds going to break into chaos" thing you posed a while back I really agree on what you are saying in this thread.

You really know whats going on in reality. your one of the more sane posters on this forum.
2007-07-24 21:18:18
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command
Can I quote you on that?
2007-07-24 21:22:55
golgoj4
Member
+51|6780|North Hollywood

PureFodder wrote:

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

PureFodder wrote:


How are you supposed to overthrow the government with small arms? Surely whoever the military side with will be the side that wins, hence the civilians don't have any use for guns when trying to overthrow the government, all you really should be concentrating on is convincing the military to join your cause.
So do you suggest we wait to be captured so that we have the opportunity to plead our case with the lowliest members of the military, or band together to attempt a resistance/insurgency.
I'm suggesting that by fighting the military you'll both get massacred and alienate them from your cause by fighting and killing their friends and colleagues. Red dawn is just a movie!

Parker wrote:

whoever is talking about a revolution being impossible because of the military.
if you dont live here, you really dont know what you are talking about. you DONT know what we have access too, and you dont know how we would be able to fight......but that joint will get smoked when it is rolled.
You think untrained, poorly armed civilians cound defeat your armed forces?

You don't have much confidence in your armed forces. Do you have access to top of the line anti-tank and anti-air weaponry?

Parker wrote:

i know, i know, "if there werent any guns blah blah blah...", but there are, and there is nothing that ANYONE can do about it.
any solutions that are provided will not work.
There's a whole lot you can do about it. The US has 50 times higher gun crime RATE than the UK. A whole hell of a lot can be done about gun crime.
I dont own a gun. Its better I dont. I would probly shoot people in traffic and call it self defense.

But as far as the Military vs Citizens...well gosh darn of they don't have weaknesses in their armor. You can can say that the American people would get pwned, but that shows how little you know about anything. I supposed I could go into some long rant, but Im about to get into a Civ IV game so i'll say this. Learn how the military works, then tell me it wouldnt be weak vs its own citizens. Im not sure when you decided that the US Military hated their own people, but your WAY wrong.

Have a nice day.
2007-07-24 21:28:11
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6451|The Land of Scott Walker

Pisacis wrote:

How can you justify owning a personal firearm?
According to the Constitution of my country, I as a law-abiding citizen may own one.  Beyond that, I enjoy target practice with my firearms and they are available to protect my family if the need arises.  Family protection is, in itself, enough justification.  Time and time again it's proven that the police do not prevent crime, they chase the criminals after the crime.  My pistol can respond waaaay before the police will even get to my side of the city.
2007-07-24 21:31:38
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6411|North Carolina

elstonieo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

How do Europeans justify having figurehead monarchies?  The same reason....  Tradition.
most people don't want the monarchies (not all country's are the same on this issue)
but just enough people don't want change so we are stuck, down with the house of tossers(lords) I want proportional representation
I'm not sure whether I should be happy that your people feel this way or depressed that your government won't allow the wanted changes...

I guess it's kind of like how we have a useless electoral college.
2007-07-24 21:34:52
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6772|UK

DesertFox- wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Im staying out of this one. I already know gun ownership is a proven rubbish idea.
For someone who plays BF2 :-P
For them it's rubbish; if they get 'em again they'll try to conquer the world again.
And we will suceed unlike some other country beginning with U and ending with A.

OOOO BURN!!!!
2007-07-24 21:39:08
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6486|Somewhere else

AS a gun owner, and someone who makes guns for a living, I justify the possesion of Firearms through facts.

How many guns involved in crimes were obtained Illegally?  If we ban guns, Will criminals simply give thier gun use up? or just obtain them illegally? Obvious Answer.

So the Criminals have guns.  Law abiding citizens wouldn't.   In States with right to carry,  You think a criminal is just going to hold up anyone, knowing that they might also be armed, and so could anyone else inthe room.  That's an intimidating thought, if you are the criminal.

How many crimes are caused by legally obtained weapons, as opposed to how many crimes ares stopped by people with legally obtained weapons?

It's a matter of quick resolution.  Someone charges up on your lawn ready to brawl.  You have no gun, get ready for a fight, or a tleast for the guy to try to get you.  Pull a gun, things change pretty quick.

Having a gun isnt about shooting someone.  It's about self defense.   I would say that 9 times out of 10  when a situation comes about where a gun is involved, it is never used.   It's about the whole "walk away intact, or fall to the ground without your brains"  Even the stupidest moron knows the right answer.

And even further,  No states allow you to just blow someone away.  Should it end up where you are forced to shoot.  Be prepared for LAwyers, courts, and an arrest.   Almost everyone knows this and very seldom does anyone just go rogue cowboy and just shoot a tresspasser or angry drunk.

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2007-07-24 21:40:53)

 

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