Poll

Are you a Christian?

I would like to be 50% 50% - 157 50% 50% - 157
I don't want anything to do with that! 55% 55% - 174 44% 44% - 140
Total: 314
MOG Disciple
Member
+8|6758|Wisconsin
Thank you for bringing me up to speed.  I have been praying about the response that I would give.

You have given many scientific reasons why a person is homosexual. Let us look at these so called scientists.   

The definition of behavioral science
Function: noun
: a branch of science (as psychology, sociology, or anthropology) that deals primarily with human action and often seeks to generalize about human behavior in society

Let us look at the word generalize

1 : to give a general form to
2 a : to derive or induce (a general conception or principle) from particulars b : to draw a general conclusion from
3 : to give general applicability to <generalize a law>; also : to make indefinite
intransitive verb
1 : to form generalizations; also : to make vague or indefinite statements

Now that key word indefinite

in•def•i•nite
Pronunciation: (")in-'def-n&t, -'de-f&-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin indefinitus, from in- + definitus definite
: not definite: as a : typically designating an unidentified, generic, or unfamiliar person or thing <the indefinite articles a and an> <indefinite pronouns> b : not precise : VAGUE c : having no exact limits

Now let us look at, typically designating an unidentified, generic, or unfamiliar person or thing, not precise VAGUE, having no exact limits. I could keep going on but I don't want to take up 3 pages myself.  My interpretation is this, they do not have a clue what they are saying they make crap up to please everyone, making all the homosexuals feel good about themselves, and they probably get paid way too much for doing this.

I am taking back everything before when I used humans writing books in my defense. I am going back to the Holy Word of God.  I want you now to prove I am wrong, find a scientist that can prove that the Bible is wrong.  Find a witness that said " I made up the the Bible and everything in it as a prank. 

I believe that the Bible is correct and the gays are just in a defensive mood.

Lev 18:22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 18:23  Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

That is pretty strait forward.

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

God let them do as they wish, we have free choice.  it says "they became fools"

Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Look at how most people today are, even those in this forum. Haters of God anyone?

Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I must say this last part explanes alot Romans 1:32 knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death

I feel this is why there needs to be a reason for this sickness or disease for this must be what it is if it is not a choice, it must be a sickness or disease.  This is why the so called experts are scrambling to prove the Bible is false they do not want to take the responsibility for there unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness,  backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things.
John 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:44 is my only goal here. I am not here to judge you, I am here to tell you about the loving Heavenly Father that loves you and wants nothing more then for you to be in Heaven with him forever more.  I have a gay cousin in law, I do not condemn him, I love him as Christ first loved us.  I pray that some day he will understand.  Till then I will pray for him as I pray for you.

I have nothing more to ad to this subject about homosexuality at this time.  We can talk about somthing else.  I await your reply and witnesses that prove without a doubt that the Bible is not the true word of God.  Prove to me there is no God.

I would like the rest of you Christians that are just quoting " I'm proud to be a Christian"  and so on, to write a message stating that you will pray with me for these non-Christians and that thier eyes would be opened up to see the truth.  Put your faith and name on the line.

Last edited by MOG Disciple (2006-07-14 23:57:21)

Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6940

MOG Disciple wrote:

Thank you for bringing me up to speed.  I have been praying about the response that I would give.

You have given many scientific reasons why a person is homosexual. Let us look at these so called scientists.   
<truncated>
I would like the rest of you Christians that are just quoting " I'm proud to be a Christian"  and so on, to write a message stating that you will pray with me for these non-Christians and that thier eyes would be opened up to see the truth.  Put your faith and name on the line.
So let me summarize your argument.

A. The APA is lying to make everyone happy and get paid.
B. You want me to prove the bible wrong, which is virtually impossible because the vast majority of it is not grounded in reality to begin with, thus finding ways to countervent it in reality is not possible. It would be like me asking you to prove that the events described in 'star wars' are false (in a galaxy far, far away. good luck).
C. You have no real argument besides Ad hominem attacks on the people providing the research, and can provide no real, substantial evidence of your own.

Gotcha.

As an addendum, one of my good friends is a career private practice psychologist. Having talked to him about the DSM (IV), the publication of mental diseases put out by the APA, I can tell you that if anything they are likely to publish mental 'diseases' that are borderline. Essentially, psychologists get paid more if they can diagnose and treat things. How much more money do you think the psychological profession could make it they diagnosed homosexuality as a mental disorder and could treat it as such? The research I've seen has shown that ~5% of the population is homosexual, thats alot of customers. Things like 'attention deficit disorder' are borderline when it comes to a 'mental disorder', yet they are published in the DSM as a disorder. Yes, they can be treated using medication, and yes there is an improvement in the symptoms. On the other hand, homosexuality has no basis as a mental disorder, because the medical research community as a whole cannot diagnose it as such, and it cannot be effectively treated as a mental disorder. Essentially, your argument that the APA is just trying to make people happy and get paid in the process has no basis (not that you even attempted to provide a basis for your argument, you seem content to just say things and provide no evidence).

Next?
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

Lol... Star wars is true! A jedi saved my life yesterday while crossing the street! (how he got here is unknown to me...)
MOG Disciple
Member
+8|6758|Wisconsin

Skruples wrote:

MOG Disciple wrote:

Thank you for bringing me up to speed.  I have been praying about the response that I would give.

You have given many scientific reasons why a person is homosexual. Let us look at these so called scientists.   
<truncated>
I would like the rest of you Christians that are just quoting " I'm proud to be a Christian"  and so on, to write a message stating that you will pray with me for these non-Christians and that their eyes would be opened up to see the truth.  Put your faith and name on the line.
So let me summarize your argument.

A. The APA is lying to make everyone happy and get paid.
B. You want me to prove the bible wrong, which is virtually impossible because the vast majority of it is not grounded in reality to begin with, thus finding ways to countervent it in reality is not possible. It would be like me asking you to prove that the events described in 'star wars' are false (in a galaxy far, far away. good luck).
C. You have no real argument besides Ad hominem attacks on the people providing the research, and can provide no real, substantial evidence of your own.

Gotcha.

As an addendum, one of my good friends is a career private practice psychologist. Having talked to him about the DSM (IV), the publication of mental diseases put out by the APA, I can tell you that if anything they are likely to publish mental 'diseases' that are borderline. Essentially, psychologists get paid more if they can diagnose and treat things. How much more money do you think the psychological profession could make it they diagnosed homosexuality as a mental disorder and could treat it as such? The research I've seen has shown that ~5% of the population is homosexual, thats alot of customers. Things like 'attention deficit disorder' are borderline when it comes to a 'mental disorder', yet they are published in the DSM as a disorder. Yes, they can be treated using medication, and yes there is an improvement in the symptoms. On the other hand, homosexuality has no basis as a mental disorder, because the medical research community as a whole cannot diagnose it as such, and it cannot be effectively treated as a mental disorder. Essentially, your argument that the APA is just trying to make people happy and get paid in the process has no basis (not that you even attempted to provide a basis for your argument, you seem content to just say things and provide no evidence).

Next?
I am not saying the APA is lying just to get paid.  I am saying that behavioral scientists are basing there truth on a guess, they don't know!  Everyone has an agenda.  Me, you we all have agendas mine is to tell you about Christs love.  Yours is to prove me wrong. 

I can not prove the APA wrong except with the Bible, and you can not prove the Bible is wrong, so here we sit at an impasse.

I am going to look into APA and I will get back to you.
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6940

MOG Disciple wrote:

I am not saying the APA is lying just to get paid.  I am saying that behavioral scientists are basing there truth on a guess, they don't know!
I apologize, I must have misinterpreted this statement.

MOG Disciple wrote:

My interpretation is this, they do not have a clue what they are saying they make crap up to please everyone, making all the homosexuals feel good about themselves, and they probably get paid way too much for doing this.
To me, it sounded kind of like you were saying the APA/psychological community in general was just 'making crap up' to 'please everyone' and getting 'payed way too much for doing so'. They probably do get payed too much, but that is another matter.

MOG Disciple wrote:

Everyone has an agenda.  Me, you we all have agendas mine is to tell you about Christs love.  Yours is to prove me wrong.
How, exactly, is an argument about the psychology of homosexuality related to Christs love? Let's stay on topic. My agenda here is showing your notions about homosexuality to be outdated and not grounded in reality, nothing more.


MOG Disciple wrote:

I can not prove the APA wrong except with the Bible, and you can not prove the Bible is wrong, so here we sit at an impasse.

I am going to look into APA and I will get back to you.
I don't see how you've proven anyone wrong with the Bible. If you could show me some homosexuals burning in hell for their sexual orientation, or maybe a signed affidavit from God to that effect, that would be different. Quoting the Bible to prove a point will get us nowhere, unless we're talking solely about christianity.
DVSXXKILLA
Member
+0|6941|Australia
lets just leave it at this... homosexuals have problems. There actions are immoral and simply wrong. Even if you support them the slightest you too have got problems. I cant believe there are peopel supporting homosexuals and are you trying t otell me that there are gay people who play bf2!!!!
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

uhm...yeah, I guess we are... And if you have a problem with it, you have them to deal with... There are enough to knock you out, no doubt...
for the record, I'm not gay myself
DVSXXKILLA
Member
+0|6941|Australia
You think gay people can fight? lol
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

yeah, I do... But hey, go ahead insulting them, and find out for yourself
DVSXXKILLA
Member
+0|6941|Australia
Gay people in Australia aint like the ones in your country. There are few that will fight and for the ones who can, they dont know how. Im yet to meet a crazy homosexual who can fight. but lets not get sidetracted my opinion is still homosexualality is wrong.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

Alright...but try to express yourself more diplomatically, you may offend people otherwise...
Hellfire(Fish)
Your Favorite Whiny Liberal
+8|6744|Alabama, United States

DVSXXKILLA wrote:

Im yet to meet a crazy homosexual who can fight. but lets not get sidetracted my opinion is still homosexualality is wrong.
Lol. Never seen what prison does to people with life-time sentences eh?
Anfidurl
Use the bumper, that's what its for!
+103|6832|Lexington, Kentucky
Re: Evolution.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl … 9EC588EEDF

Re: Homosexuality

DVSXXKILLA wrote:

lets just leave it at this... homosexuals have problems.
Problems worse than you? For that matter, why go around gay bashing when you could: love your neighbor, help solve crime problems, feed starving children in [Africa|South America], work to build houses for Katrina victims, etc.

There actions are immoral and simply wrong.
Why? Just saying that they are immoral proves nothing. Aside from that, can you PROVE they are immoral without resorting to quoting a book of dubious quotes and translations from the Bronze Age Middle east?

Even if you support them the slightest you too have got problems.
Oh, the old guilt by association routine. <sarcasm>You are making yourself look REAL good there...</sarcasm>

I cant believe there are peopel supporting homosexuals
Believe it. But then, I can't believe you never learned how to spell, or use the spell-checker feature on these forums.

and are you trying t otell me that there are gay people who play bf2!!!!
Yes. There are also Jews, Pagans, Satanists, Hindi, Buddhists, and many many more. They all have their own codes of morality, not all of which agree with your dubious ill-educated views.

Im yet to meet a crazy homosexual who can fight. but lets not get sidetracted my opinion is still homosexualality is wrong.
Sidetracted(sic) indeed. You probably have met more than a few...
(A) but none of them wanted to get charges of assault pressed against them, and
(B) You'd never fess up if you got beat up by a 'girly man'

Konfusion0 wrote:

Alright...but try to express yourself more diplomatically, you may offend people otherwise...
Yep. I'm offended. I belong to the Church of Spelling Nazis, and I'm HIGHLY offended by DVSXXKILLA's blasphemy.
teehee1988
Member
+5|6877|Birmingham, UK
"Even if you support them the slightest you too have got problems??"
Erm...ok, however im guessing this is from a Christain perspective?? maybe??
well if it is it is perfectly plausable to be Christian and gay, i am not saying i agree or disagree wiht it, however it is perfectly aceptable to think this way.
It depends on what authorit you give to biblical scriptures, whether on one extreme you consider them the literal word of God with no human input, or on the other extreme mans best guess on what God actually is.
Say it is simple immoral doesn't prove anything.
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7017
Anfidurl, that link you gave us still cant explain the first cell, never mind everything else. They gave up on how it could form on earth and said it came from a comet. Could you explain how a random cell could survive thousands of years of radiation and then come through the atmosphere and start evolving? How did the cell get on this miracle comet that was heading for earth? They didnt even try to explain it. But i like how they would rather believe aliens put the first cell here than God did.
ashleyhall
Member
+15|6922|Somerset
LOL JamDude you blatantly misunderstand the +1 Karma system, if you've got something to say in private, send me a PM...although I do appreciate the +1!!!!

"2006-07-14 17:36:46 +1 Christianity You gotta wake up. You really think most of the government and some of the most powerful people in the world believe in an imaginary god? -jamdude"
Anfidurl
Use the bumper, that's what its for!
+103|6832|Lexington, Kentucky

JaMDuDe wrote:

Anfidurl, that link you gave us still cant explain the first cell, never mind everything else. They gave up on how it could form on earth and said it came from a comet. Could you explain how a random cell could survive thousands of years of radiation and then come through the atmosphere and start evolving? How did the cell get on this miracle comet that was heading for earth? They didnt even try to explain it. But i like how they would rather believe aliens put the first cell here than God did.
Wtf?
Okay, Jamdude, lets look at something.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … nobyl.html
Radiation does not always kill.
Harmful, yes, but not to everything.

Now where did Aliens come into this discussion?
And where did I ever say that it couldn't be god? Oh, look! I *never* said it couldn't have.
The link was just to shoot down this "Evolution is a theory" crap you people were spitting out.

Edit: Man, I know I'm on heavy painkillers, but WTF are you on?

Last edited by Anfidurl (2006-07-16 12:10:35)

JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7017
I didnt mean "evolution is theory". Skruples was comparing gravity and evolution. Gravity is a scientific law and evolution is a theory so they arent a great comparison. Chernobyl radiation and cosmic radiation are slightly different. If you put a cell on a rock in space and submit it to huge amounts of radiation over thousands of years it will die. But if you dont have common sense i guess it will survive. You didnt say anything about aliens, but the link you provided did. In case you didnt read it, it says "But even if life on earth turned out to have a nonevolutionary origin (for instance, if aliens introduced the first cells billions of years ago)"

Ok ashley, i will never give anyone in this thread karma again. If i have a short message that nobody else cares about i will PM you instead of +karma.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6789|CH/BR - in UK

radiation one thing: change cell structure... It does not kill, but the change in structure may...
ashleyhall
Member
+15|6922|Somerset
Ok ashley, i will never give anyone in this thread karma again. If i have a short message that nobody else cares about i will PM you instead of +karma.
Praise the lord....or whatever...
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6940

JaMDuDe wrote:

I didnt mean "evolution is theory". Skruples was comparing gravity and evolution.
Would you have been more happy if I had used the atomic theory instead?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6795
This thread should be published in 'Amateur Scientist Weekly'.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6914|Canberra, AUS

JaMDuDe wrote:

Anfidurl, that link you gave us still cant explain the first cell, never mind everything else. They gave up on how it could form on earth and said it came from a comet. Could you explain how a random cell could survive thousands of years of radiation and then come through the atmosphere and start evolving? How did the cell get on this miracle comet that was heading for earth? They didnt even try to explain it. But i like how they would rather believe aliens put the first cell here than God did.
We'll probably never know - because any 'evidence' is long gone.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
sidious1
Member
+15|6781

Possum61 wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Proud to be a Christian.
Amen
AMEN, brothers!
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7069

JaMDuDe wrote:

Anfidurl, that link you gave us still cant explain the first cell, never mind everything else. They gave up on how it could form on earth and said it came from a comet. Could you explain how a random cell could survive thousands of years of radiation and then come through the atmosphere and start evolving? How did the cell get on this miracle comet that was heading for earth? They didnt even try to explain it. But i like how they would rather believe aliens put the first cell here than God did.
Are you honestly going to try to argue that a single cell is too complex to have formed by random chance yet an all powerful god can just form by random chance?

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