Poll

Are you a Christian?

I would like to be 50% 50% - 157 50% 50% - 157
I don't want anything to do with that! 55% 55% - 174 44% 44% - 140
Total: 314
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7069
As far as the proof that God doesn't exist thing goes....

Example 1.

All quarks, photons, neutrinos etc.etc. are actually being pushed around by a huge number of incredibly tiny elves that are undetectable in any way except for their ability to push fundamental particles around.
Prove this to be wrong.

stupid example 2.

We actually live in the matrix.
You cannot prove this to be wrong, hence it must be right? No. That would be a stupid thing to think.

The point being that you should only believe things that can be proved as there are an infinite number of things that could exist but cannot be proved to not exist.


On the topic of evolution, here's a simple, real life example of evolution occuring in our lives. At the moment this Bird flu thing that I'm sure you're all aware of isn't too much of a threat. At the moment it's mainly killing birds and only a few people. The reason is because it is very bad at infecting humans. If evolution doesn't exist then the virus will remain like this and it isn't a problem.

Unfortunately during the astronomical number of reproductions that this virus goes through, sometimes it won't work exactly correctly and there will be a defect in one of the virusus. Most of these defects will make a virus that can no longer function. It dies and so does that mutation. The problem being that one of these random mutations may lead to it being better at infecting humans and we start to die.

With larger lifeforms like animals, plants, insects there are far fewer of them and they reproduce much slower, hence the number of mutations per unit of time is much smaller and the chances of observing evolution in them vastly smaller. People therefore have to look at fossils to see the slow evolution of these creatures.

(EDIT) Also, the Creationist arguement goes like this. Life is far too complex to have been created by chance, hence there must have been an intelligent designer (GOD).
Now lets take this to the next step. A creator with the ability to create this life must be more complex that the life we know on Earth, hence it becomes less likely that the creator could have come into existance by anything other than an even more complex creator using the same reasoning as the first step, who requires a more complex creator, who requires... etc.

Last edited by .:XDR:.PureFodder (2006-07-12 03:48:36)

spastic bullet
would like to know if you are on crack
+77|6781|vancouver

Smitty5613 wrote:

and by the way... evolution is not a science its a religion itself... it says there is no creator, and other religions say there is.... i depends on your viewpoint, if u have an IQ of 50 or less, then evolution is a science and not a religion
Evolution has nothing to say on the matter of whether there is a creator or not.  It sounds to me like you don't know a thing about it.

Last edited by spastic bullet (2006-07-12 03:42:16)

jimmanycricket
EBC Member
+56|6895|Cambridge, England
im a christian that beleives in a creator and evolution, i mean all he had to do is start the ball rolling, he knew what the outcome would be. just because he created all life by evolution dosnt mean it wasnt created.
cyborg_pirate
Member
+6|6743|taiwan and hong kong

spastic bullet wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

and by the way... evolution is not a science its a religion itself... it says there is no creator, and other religions say there is.... i depends on your viewpoint, if u have an IQ of 50 or less, then evolution is a science and not a religion
Evolution has nothing to say on the matter of whether there is a creator or not.  It sounds to me like you don't know a thing about it.
but neither is evolution science really...and i think that person was just using religion as an "expression"
yos <3
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6866|Sea to globally-cooled sea

Smitty5613 wrote:

those are catholics... they are goin to hell anyways
How could you POSSIBLY say this?  that's completely sad!  I am a Catholic.  What have I done that I deserve eternal damnation when the rest of my Christian brothers deserve Christ's loving compassion and forgiveness?

You condemn as the Scribes and the Pharisees did.  Catholics to you are the prostitutes and tax collectors to them.

Please, for love of God and all things good, explain to me how what you just said is:

1) proven
2) Christian

Pax tecum
DoctorFruitloop
Level 13 Wrongdoer
+515|6786|Doncaster, UK
Nope, evolution is a theory, a concept, it's neither a religion or a science.

It can be explained through scientific principals, but there is no hard and fast evidence that it particularly disproves the religious side of creation.

Don't get me wrong, I am not remotely religious, but Darwinism is not the ultimate proof of the non-existance of one or many Gods.

And having an I.Q. over 50 doesn't make your religious views automatically right smitty5613. My IQ is 142 but I'm not a god squadder. Your statement was verging on a personal slight that unless you belileve in God you're a retard.

Last edited by DoctorFruitloop (2006-07-12 05:00:42)

medic.me.elmo
Member
+5|6762|Melbourne, Australia

jimmanycricket wrote:

im a christian that beleives in a creator and evolution, i mean all he had to do is start the ball rolling, he knew what the outcome would be. just because he created all life by evolution dosnt mean it wasnt created.
i agree with u there. I think there is an almighty God that created life, but that life may have only been one tiny microbiological organism that started the whole domino affect of what we call 'evolution'. I believe Science and Religion can live together in harmony.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6790|CH/BR - in UK

CameronPoe wrote:

Bring back negative karma.
rofl...I'd be getting negative karma like this "weener" and " " and "I just don't like you"
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6790|CH/BR - in UK

JaMDuDe wrote:

Evolution is science. Thats not what i ment.  Ashley said life evolved through science. Life did not evolve through the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Cameron, theres not a shred of evidence that shows he doesnt exist. There is evidence that he exists. He sent his son here about 2000 years ago and Jesus was prophecied about hundreds of years before he came. Irreducible complexity, YOUR consciousness, the impossibility of spontaneous generation, the perfection and order of everything and more all point to a creator. He gave you free will and it all comes down to YOUR choice.
actually, there is no evidence that Jesus was sent by god... There is evidence that he lived, but that is the only evidence in that direction that we have... Then again, for me to believe that something exists, there has to be evidence for it, not against it...
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7069

cyborg_pirate wrote:

spastic bullet wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

and by the way... evolution is not a science its a religion itself... it says there is no creator, and other religions say there is.... i depends on your viewpoint, if u have an IQ of 50 or less, then evolution is a science and not a religion
Evolution has nothing to say on the matter of whether there is a creator or not.  It sounds to me like you don't know a thing about it.
but neither is evolution science really...and i think that person was just using religion as an "expression"
yos <3
Evolution is a scietific theory. It is backed up by lots of evidence. All evolution says on the subject of a creator is that there is nothing to suggest there is one. The way scientific theory works is, if there's nothing to indicate something does exist, it is assumed not to exist.

Creation is backed up by no evidence at all and just begs the question, who created the creator?
ozzie_johnson
Member
+98|6898|Penrith, N.S.W, Australia
i guess i am ><.
ashleyhall
Member
+15|6922|Somerset
Evolution is a scietific theory. It is backed up by lots of evidence. All evolution says on the subject of a creator is that there is nothing to suggest there is one. The way scientific theory works is, if there's nothing to indicate something does exist, it is assumed not to exist.
Well said, its proven, its fact, it cannot be debated - unlike the existance of 'God' and the good 'ole three wisemen...and their donkeys?!!

Nevertheless, I can understand the need of the less fortunate than me to believe that there is somebody out there who will put them out of their misery somehow. After all, hope dies last. But all in all, belief is nothing more than a desperate man's final defense mechanism.
Also very well said, belief in something that blatantly isn't there is for those without the IQ or confidence to live their own lives, make their own decisions and live by their OWN morals.

How can you believe in something that just SO blatantly IS NOT THERE!!

ashley.. have u ever thought that maybe God isnt fictional, or is ur head shoved up ur ass too far to understand
Is that a point? or are you just lost for anything clever to say? What a completely stupid thing to say eitherway!!

Last edited by ashleyhall (2006-07-12 06:00:17)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6795

spastic bullet wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

and by the way... evolution is not a science its a religion itself... it says there is no creator, and other religions say there is.... i depends on your viewpoint, if u have an IQ of 50 or less, then evolution is a science and not a religion
Evolution has nothing to say on the matter of whether there is a creator or not.  It sounds to me like you don't know a thing about it.
Didn't you hear? The Great God Evolutor sent his son 'Atheon' to ancient Palestine so that he might bless us with his presence and preach to us the virtues of genetic mutation, adaptation to our respective environments, natural selection and being generally nice to each other.

Anybody up for referring to the force of gravity as 'intelligent falling'?
Use0fWeapons
Get repairs here
+60|6773|Doncaster - UK
Is science a religion? i would say no. Cant be, simple as that.
BUT
Is the belief in evolution as the source of all life on earth a religion,,  well, perhaps.  It cant be proved 100% so your believing in it.

And people can be "religious" in their actions and beliefs, without following a 'religion' as it were.

The idea of a 'god' knowing about evolution, and setting it in motion knowing the outcome is interesting, but i don't think it works to well. You cant have both ideas working like that.

Do i believe all creationist and higher being religions are wrong, that what i believe is right, and everyone should think my way, yes, therefor am i "religious" Yes i suppose i am.  Oh well, i am as bad as everyone else.

Never mind, lets all get a game of BF2 and pretend to kill each other. 
Were all Buddhists in the game anyway, how else do you explain the re-spawning.
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7069

Use0fWeapons wrote:

It cant be proved 100% so your believing in it.
Nothing in Science can be 100% proved. You can't do every possible test for everything under all conditions. You find the best theory that can explain the avalible data and can make testable predictions. What you can say is that evolution fits the current data better than any other theory.
Use0fWeapons
Get repairs here
+60|6773|Doncaster - UK
There are a lot of, "all grass is green, therefor all green things are grass" arguments going on in this thread!

Scientific methods do not necessarily work on the fact something cant be proved to exist, therefor it is assumed it doesn't.  This is a dangerous way of doing it. 
All scientifically minded people should be open to the argument that 'god' cant be proved to not exist, therefor it might. Rather than it cant be proved to exist therefor it doesn't.
masterofflama
Member
+19|6824|European Battlefield Command
i am not. i believe in a Holy Lemon. If somebody want to join me, PM me.
Use0fWeapons
Get repairs here
+60|6773|Doncaster - UK

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

Use0fWeapons wrote:

It cant be proved 100% so your believing in it.
Nothing in Science can be 100% proved. You can't do every possible test for everything under all conditions. You find the best theory that can explain the available data and can make testable predictions. What you can say is that evolution fits the current data better than any other theory.
Yes, it is currently the best working theory.  I totally agree.

I don't expect anything to relay be prove 100%, but that is the benefit of scientific ideas i think, we are open to our theory's being proven wrong, and are usually happy to go with a new idea if all evidence points to it.

Last edited by Use0fWeapons (2006-07-12 07:05:37)

SkoobyDu
'CLICK JOIN NOW'... OK lets go... BOOM!!!! =FFS=
+120|6801|Cheshire, UK
My wife is a christian and I'm not... She believes whats would like to and I don't believe what I like to, everone is entitled to their own opinion with it being a free and democratical society we all live in, and nobody should be forced to believe in something just because someone else say's its so.

I'll leave it there, afterall more wars have been caused by religion alone.

See you on the battlefield soldier.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6976|Salt Lake City

masterofflama wrote:

i am not. i believe in a Holy Lemon. If somebody want to join me, PM me.
It's usually Limes, but I'll bring the tequila. 
Use0fWeapons
Get repairs here
+60|6773|Doncaster - UK
Hi there SkoobyDu,   
Interesting, i am almost in the same situation, congrats on the marriage BTW. My wife is catholic, i don't follow any religious beliefs and am not looking. 
I was more than happy for everyone to follow their own beliefs, and we are both happy with each other like this.
But we have been discussing how we would bring up any future children.  All of a sudden i find i have much stronger 'beliefs' in religion being wrong than i thought.
We haven't come to a decision on this yet, at the moment its not a big issue, and in truth i think i will let her decide.  But i was surprised at myself.

Ps, have you been talking to doc?  If so i will see you on the battlefield.

Last edited by Use0fWeapons (2006-07-12 07:36:17)

JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7017

Konfusion0 wrote:

JaMDuDe wrote:

Evolution is science. Thats not what i ment.  Ashley said life evolved through science. Life did not evolve through the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Cameron, theres not a shred of evidence that shows he doesnt exist. There is evidence that he exists. He sent his son here about 2000 years ago and Jesus was prophecied about hundreds of years before he came. Irreducible complexity, YOUR consciousness, the impossibility of spontaneous generation, the perfection and order of everything and more all point to a creator. He gave you free will and it all comes down to YOUR choice.
actually, there is no evidence that Jesus was sent by god... There is evidence that he lived, but that is the only evidence in that direction that we have... Then again, for me to believe that something exists, there has to be evidence for it, not against it...
It all comes down to your choice. If you want to believe he was just an incredibly nice guy and and one of the greatest magicians of all time you can. Theres a lot of evidence he was sent by God, but if you dont want to see it you wont.

Evolution is science and its backed up by a lot of evidence. But spontaneous generation was too and it was just as accepted by scientists.
masterofflama
Member
+19|6824|European Battlefield Command

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

masterofflama wrote:

i am not. i believe in a Holy Lemon. If somebody want to join me, PM me.
It's usually Limes, but I'll bring the tequila. 
i am waiting for you to pray together ;0
SkoobyDu
'CLICK JOIN NOW'... OK lets go... BOOM!!!! =FFS=
+120|6801|Cheshire, UK

Use0fWeapons wrote:

Hi there SkoobyDu,   
Interesting, i am almost in the same situation, congrats on the marriage BTW. My wife is catholic, i don't follow any religious beliefs and am not looking. 
I was more than happy for everyone to follow their own beliefs, and we are both happy with each other like this.
But we have been discussing how we would bring up any future children.  All of a sudden i find i have much stronger 'beliefs' in religion being wrong than i thought.
We haven't come to a decision on this yet, at the moment its not a big issue, and in truth i think i will let her decide.  But i was surprised at myself.

Ps, have you been talking to doc?  If so i will see you on the battlefield.
Yes mate i've been chatting to DOC today, with regards to the other thing... I was christened as a child how ever as I grew up I never really expressed an opinion about the church in any way or form, and I don't believe what my Wife does. She has a strong Christian background as her father is a vicar and her grandfather was a vicar, so as you can imagine she has grown up with the church. As far as kids go we have one which has been christened, however she will be free to make her own mind up with what she wants to believe. She lives in a happy home with no arguements and the church or religion never comes up.

We believe that everyone should make up their own mind when they feel ready.

The only thing that annoys me are those who 'just found religion' I always ask my self 'where, behind the sofa?'
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7069

JaMDuDe wrote:

Theres a lot of evidence he was sent by God, but if you dont want to see it you wont.
My money's on this evidence not being in the form of a line graph with error bars...

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