No I mean where the hell do you come to the conclusion that US troops killed 70K Iraqis?Marinejuana wrote:
ya that would be like 50 world trade center towers falling in a country that hardly has a sky scraper to begin with. so who is honestly trying to compare the situation of the muslim with that of the american?usmarine2005 wrote:
Say what?Marinejuana wrote:
Since 2003, roughly 70,000 iraqis have died to US troops .
You STILL don't get it!!!!! I did not say get mad AT your religion. You should be standing up against people who are kidnapping your religion and making it a religion of hate, which you, as a Muslim should be VERY upset about. Instead you bring up the priest/ Catholic situation. I don't know how that pertains to this thread but if you insist.blendiys wrote:
I don't get mad @ my religion, I get mad @ priestess raping children. I hate to kill in name of god but I can't imagine fucking in name of that.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
This post makes my point. You get mad about something that is about someone expressing his freedom of speech. You want to shut the messenger up and post something about "banning" this link. Have you spoken up against the people who are high jacking your religion? How come I haven't seen a post in here from you condemning radicals for what they have done to your religion.
This thread was not made to bash the religion, it was made to show that REAL Muslims need to stand up and clean house and rally against the real people who are ruining your religion. Get mad at what is happening to your religion, not at a commentator, a cartoon or things of that nature. Get mad at the people who are turning your religion into something people fear, loathe and think negative about even after just hearing the word.
I have no problem with my religion, because I'm not part of that shit I hear I see every day.
And speaking by freedom of speech..............?? C'mon, what you know about it??
If you haven't noticed. There has been an uproar against the leadership of the catholic religion and the priests who perpetrated the crimes are getting what they deserve. Catholics ARE speaking up about it and just a few days ago there was a judgement ruling that will cost the Catholic Diocese of LA (correct me if I am wrong on the location) that will cost the leadership 660,000,000 dollars...yes..660 million! The catholic church is paying dearly by money and by reputation. You hear and see jokes about Priests all the time but I don't see rallies against cartoons making fun of priests.
You say you have no problem with your religion, good for you and no one is saying that you are part of the "shit" you see and hear. What people are upset about is that you don't stand up or defend your religion from the radicals. You would rather get mad at a post like this rather than deploring the acts committed in the name of Islam. Instead you bring up Priests? What do I know about freedom of speech? If I choose to speak up against a priest, or speak up against my government...I won't get my head cut off. Imagine if a regular, peaceful Muslim stood up in a radical Mosque in Pakistan and criticized or spoke up at an Islamic Imam in his seat............hmmmm...wonder what would happen. I don't think it would be very tolerant nor peaceful.
You need to understand. I am NOT condemning the Muslim religion. I am being critical of the double standards of what they choose to speak out about and honestly, I personally, don't call radicals that kill in the name of Islam Muslims at all. I know that there are good, peaceful Muslims who contribute and do the right things but the biggest problem of Islam is that it allows itself to be hi-jacked by the radicals and they do nothing about it. Probably growing pains as most religions have gone through, but you keep making my point by how you are reacting to this thread.
You refuse to see anything that was said or written positive, you choose to only pick out parts you find offensive and you close your eyes to what you know is true about what is happening to your religion. You would rather try to change the subject instead of simply saying....Yeah, you're right, we are being hi-jacked but we true Muslims will change that. But you don't, you choose to completely ignore and attack something else...I thank you for proving my point in the first place.
Because its a list of war casualties. 17,500 people have died per year since 2003. Isn't this about 10 times the death rate in the preceding years? Its pretty sickening to start a war and then try to deny your responsibility for the people killed. I suppose you would have preferred if I left the troops out and instead said: tanks killed so many people, guns killed x number, helicopters killed z number, but sorry, the people are also responsible.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Are you mentally ill?Marinejuana wrote:
Because its a list of war casualties. 17,500 people have died per year since 2003. Isn't this about 10 times the death rate in the preceding years? Its pretty sickening to start a war and then try to deny your responsibility for the people killed. I suppose you would have preferred if I left the troops out and instead said: tanks killed so many people, guns killed x number, helicopters killed z number, but sorry, the people are also responsible.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
How can you post that link in good faith? Its more or less a propoganda website, focusing on the negitive aspect rather then the postive. Might as well get facts from www.americasevil.com or something along those lines.Marinejuana wrote:
Because its a list of war casualties. 17,500 people have died per year since 2003. Isn't this about 10 times the death rate in the preceding years? Its pretty sickening to start a war and then try to deny your responsibility for the people killed. I suppose you would have preferred if I left the troops out and instead said: tanks killed so many people, guns killed x number, helicopters killed z number, but sorry, the people are also responsible.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
nubGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
Intent has no place in the world of illogic.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
dont you got a tavern to get drunk at?usmarine2005 wrote:
nubGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
You are comparing Christianity and the West to Islam in the Middle East as if they are in the same league. Socially, we're much more developed then they are..S.Lythberg wrote:
the whole cartoon thing just proved the stereotype that the cartoon observed...Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Well if they get so pissed off at a cartoon, that shows that they aren't apathetic. Therefore, their failure to stand up against these atrocities probably means they support them.
I see jesus and god made fun of on a daily basis, and, not only do i not strap a bomb to myself, I laugh.
Illogical? I don't think so. Insane, certainly, but reasoned insanity.Kmarion wrote:
Intent has no place in the world of illogic.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
AyeGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
dont you got a tavern to get drunk at?
You missed the boat on that one..lol. Intent meaning desired results when comparing actions. I assumed Guns (the Teacher) was replying to Marinejuana.Spark wrote:
Illogical? I don't think so. Insane, certainly, but reasoned insanity.Kmarion wrote:
Intent has no place in the world of illogic.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so Akeem in his opel thats grinding on the floor two inches on from the ground as he looks for that crowded market to kill as many little tiny children as possible is really an American soldier? hmm, i could have sworn that the majority of people being killed in Iraq were at the hands of extremist. but what do I know I just lived there for a year.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
yup. marinejuana said that troops killed all the iraqis since 2003. silly, silly....dangerous thinking.Kmarion wrote:
You missed the boat on that one..lol. Intent meaning desired results when comparing actions. I assumed Guns (the Teacher) was replying to Marinejuana.Spark wrote:
Illogical? I don't think so. Insane, certainly, but reasoned insanity.Kmarion wrote:
Intent has no place in the world of illogic.
Maybe you will gain some brain cells back when you stop smoking the pipe.....oh wait...brain cells can not be replaced....you're in trouble.Marinejuana wrote:
Because its a list of war casualties. 17,500 people have died per year since 2003. Isn't this about 10 times the death rate in the preceding years? Its pretty sickening to start a war and then try to deny your responsibility for the people killed. I suppose you would have preferred if I left the troops out and instead said: tanks killed so many people, guns killed x number, helicopters killed z number, but sorry, the people are also responsible.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
You are the kind of guy that thinks that because the U.S. is in Iraq, that they are responsible for EVERY death no matter who committed it. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....Wrong!!! The amount of CIVILIANS killed by American soldiers is tiny, rare and isolated. You can not lump it all together and then blame the military for EVERY death. If that is what you think, then there is no hope for you. Terrorists are responsible for the majority of innocent life lost in Iraq or for that matter in many other countries under siege by the radical side of Islam. Again...I state the RADICAL side. Now, I am sure there numbers for civilian deaths by our military and I dare say it is very small....especially compared to the numbers you are throwing out. I am glad that someone that has actually lived and breathed Iraq spoke up here.
Last edited by DeathBecomesYu (2007-07-18 21:28:46)
Oh...erm...my bad.Kmarion wrote:
You missed the boat on that one..lol. Intent meaning desired results when comparing actions. I assumed Guns (the Teacher) was replying to Marinejuana.Spark wrote:
Illogical? I don't think so. Insane, certainly, but reasoned insanity.Kmarion wrote:
Intent has no place in the world of illogic.
I'll just slink away to the corner and hide now.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
WHAT THE FUCK...David.P wrote:
I dont intend to try to justify anything(Even though us humans can justify anything no matter how stupid it is by just using these 3 words in the sentence of justification. God, Peace, They)Spark wrote:
No, fuckwit.
Where did you get this idea from? If you're trying to justifiy a second holocaust, gtfo.
I'm just making a counter point if you dont like it then please you Get the Fuck Off/Out(depends which one fits better)
If you are going to be so weak as to defend them and their actions to save your own life, Then you dont deserve anything(Neither Life/Liberty/Nor the Pursuit of happiness granted to all beings on this planet which feel emotion and not just act on instinct) Anyway's back to asshole posting. /Smart and Diligent.
EDIT: This is Dst please stop insulting me as a way to get your point across it never works just gets you an AWM.
This IS Debate and Serious talk asshat. The LEAST you could do is backup your statements. And I also submit that the three excuses you spoke of are just that. Not a justification for shit.
To make a counter point, you need a POINT. All you post is dumbass reactionary smacktardisms.
How is his defending them 'saving his life' Do they have him @ knife point? With an AK to his head? Dont try and usurp the words of Franklin & Optimus Prime @ the same time...you just look fucking stupid.
The quotes you mangeled
'Those who would trade security for liberty deserve neither' - Franklin
'Freedom is the right of all sentient beings' - Prime.
So now you can @ least get that right.
Please, do us a favor and stick to the junk drawer, your so full of it your eyes are brown.
are u capable of debate?usmarine2005 wrote:
Are you mentally ill?Marinejuana wrote:
Because its a list of war casualties. 17,500 people have died per year since 2003. Isn't this about 10 times the death rate in the preceding years? Its pretty sickening to start a war and then try to deny your responsibility for the people killed. I suppose you would have preferred if I left the troops out and instead said: tanks killed so many people, guns killed x number, helicopters killed z number, but sorry, the people are also responsible.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
And we didn't even hear a peep from USMarine in respect to the bombing holocaust of Vietnam. I suppose you will be talking about as much about Iraq in 30 years as you will about Vietnam now. Such a short memory we have here in the U.S., I guess most of the world can't really relate to our major motion picture length point of view.
I think USMarine needs to stop spending all this time defending the troops. He doesn't realize that speaking up for the troops at every possible moment draws necessary attention from the orders that these troops are bound to. I don't want people disrespecting the well-intentioned troops, but then this thought doesn't cross my mind very often because I'm more concerned about people dying because the troops have a job and are at war.
Only a fool would assume such a powerful force of utterly loyal people could not be lead to disaster. Its a fact that soldiers don't even decide what they are doing. You take an order and carry it out. Believe in God all you like, but our military leaders are not Gods, they are as imperfect as any men, and for you to condone what they command unconditionally is quite disturbing. 70,000 people would not have died had our military stayed at home, thats a fact you will need to accept as the body count rises.
but what you are missing is a much greater double standard. when the talk show host criticizes the the Muslims, consider that it is his own country that is militarily occupying multiple Muslim nations and killing and imprisoning vast numbers of people. The muslims are the victims and there is absolutely no evidence in this thread to point to the contrary. There is of course plenty of evidence to suggest that most of you are either racist, or morbidly unintelligent.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
You need to understand. I am NOT condemning the Muslim religion. I am being critical of the double standards of what they choose to speak out about and honestly, I personally, don't call radicals that kill in the name of Islam Muslims at all.
wow. I must admit I've enjoyed reading this thread. It has really manipulated my emotions.
Firstly, this is the first time I've heard something that I really liked, that I thought was a theory long lost in practice in Muslims:
Popes in the 20th and 21st century have publicly spoken out against the oppression or violence against Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Muslim Clerics around the globe are calling for death to infidels.
I admit, sometimes it is hard to think like a Christian. I am an American. I am so proud to be American. I love my country. I would not move anywhere else in the world...no one could offer me a large enough bribe. The patriotic side of me really wants to despise the source of the ideology that wages war on:
Guess which Religion is the common link?
Firstly, this is the first time I've heard something that I really liked, that I thought was a theory long lost in practice in Muslims:
Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly about Muslim People as a generalization violently overreacting to anything about their religion, but not giving two shits about anyone else.Villain{NY} wrote:
A true Muslim is one who lives in peace with his fellow man, loves his wife, and raises his children the best he can.
Popes in the 20th and 21st century have publicly spoken out against the oppression or violence against Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Muslim Clerics around the globe are calling for death to infidels.
Thank you. "The religion of peace." My foot.David.P wrote:
Well their leaders called upon the extermination of 5.2 billion people.
I admit, sometimes it is hard to think like a Christian. I am an American. I am so proud to be American. I love my country. I would not move anywhere else in the world...no one could offer me a large enough bribe. The patriotic side of me really wants to despise the source of the ideology that wages war on:
- My Religion
- My Beloved Country
- ...humanity as a whole
- The struggle between Israel and Palestine
- the war America and her allies are waging against Al Queda
- and the disgusting merciless slaughter of Christians by the Millions in the Sudan and other African Nations.
Guess which Religion is the common link?
It must suck to be a Muslim who isn't an extremist. These jackwohles who happen to somewhat identify with the same religion as you begin committing acts of terrorism, which serves as a stain upon your religion. And now, because you don't speak out against it you are suddenly in danger of being seen as having sympathy towards the terrorists? Who in their right mind would, in the first place, support what the extremists are doing. A sensible person of any other faith would not be suspected of being on the side of extremism but how come these people are? Man, that blows.
Hey man, as far as I'm concerned, if you're associated with it and don't speak out against it, you're in favor of it. That's a universal law.DesertFox- wrote:
It must suck to be a Muslim who isn't an extremist. These jackwohles who happen to somewhat identify with the same religion as you begin committing acts of terrorism, which serves as a stain upon your religion. And now, because you don't speak out against it you are suddenly in danger of being seen as having sympathy towards the terrorists? Who in their right mind would, in the first place, support what the extremists are doing. A sensible person of any other faith would not be suspected of being on the side of extremism but how come these people are? Man, that blows.
No, that's just being simpleminded.G3|Genius wrote:
Hey man, as far as I'm concerned, if you're associated with it and don't speak out against it, you're in favor of it. That's a universal law.DesertFox- wrote:
It must suck to be a Muslim who isn't an extremist. These jackwohles who happen to somewhat identify with the same religion as you begin committing acts of terrorism, which serves as a stain upon your religion. And now, because you don't speak out against it you are suddenly in danger of being seen as having sympathy towards the terrorists? Who in their right mind would, in the first place, support what the extremists are doing. A sensible person of any other faith would not be suspected of being on the side of extremism but how come these people are? Man, that blows.
I would agree that the Muslim community needs to do more to speak out against extremism, but don't pull that "with us or against us" bullshit.
Holy fucking shit what the fuck are you on about?Marinejuana wrote:
are u capable of debate?
And we didn't even hear a peep from USMarine in respect to the bombing holocaust of Vietnam. I suppose you will be talking about as much about Iraq in 30 years as you will about Vietnam now. Such a short memory we have here in the U.S., I guess most of the world can't really relate to our major motion picture length point of view.
Debate what? Your fucked up bullshit website link? God fucking damn you. Punch yourself in the throat and be gone.
Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-07-18 21:47:38)
David.P is confusing understanding and justification. You can understand why certain things happen but when you say it is justified you are saying it is warranted and acceptable. If you say it is Justified you are condoning it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
How can someone take seriously a man who goes by the alias "Marinejuana?"Marinejuana wrote:
are u capable of debate?
usually a good trick to intelligently arguing is to first state your credentials. Why are you qualified to speak about this? If you're dumb enough to broadcast to the vast internets that you are a pothead, then I can't take you seriously.
sorry mate, you lose this one.