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2006-01-01 07:55:58
Squig2510
Member
+0|6945
This topic actually makes me wonder where this world is going. So many people here flaming entire countries like they know all about those countries and like everyone is the same in those countries. Shame on you! Then there is the age issue. Kids are being surpressed because they are no 'adults' yet. If some of the people I've seen here claim to be adults they really have to review that oppinion. How can people call themself adults if they join this useless flame war? Even more shame on the person who started this topic. The only reason to start a topic like this one is to cause flame wars.
There are always negative things to say or claim about other countries. I'd encourage people to find those positive facts. Even my own country was getting 'attacked' by others with negative facts which I cannot deny. However, I also know the positive things, as for many of the other countries discussed in this topic. Discussions like these are exactly the discussions that cause extremists to think of the most terrible crap. Discussions like these are the ones which cause people to distrust the 'strange' and 'unknown'. Discussions like these are the ones that cause hatred among groups of different people.
I was under the impression that these discussions were no longer held on sensible forums like these. I encourage the moderators to close this topic down before things get out of hand. Please, ask yourself if you're being reasonable when wanting to flame other people because they're American, English, German, French, Canadian, Dutch, Italian, Swedish or any country others than you're from. It makes me feel sad a non-'adult' has to write down this words at such promising beginning of a new year. I'm sorry if I'm causing more anger myself this way, but this just had to be done. And to those who agree with me; bless you!
2006-01-01 07:58:46
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091

[blaq] plague wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

isn't it strange that

some will look down on Bill Clinton for being the only president in a long time not to go to war * ( xxxxxx )?

I think that says a lot about the american mentality towards war and violence in general.
* Add ( after being Repeatedly and Savagely attacked )

World Trade Center 1993 Blown to shit

Keneya Embassie Blown to shit

Tanzinia Embassie Blown to shit

Mogadisho Somalia Massacer during a "Feed the staving" mission. PS ( where was your country for that one? )

Pan Amm Flight 007 Blown to shit

Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers complex Blown to shit

DD USS Cole Blown to shit

All seven events had a massive loss of life. All seven events were perpatrated buy the same people.
He had 3 THREE chances to take out ( Kill ) the leader of this group.
He turned a blind eye with the sole purpose to end his tenur in a ( state of peace ? ) and secure his failed legacy. It back fired. He is the American Neville Chamberlian or Quisling.

He also sluaghterd his own citizens without a trail in Waco Texas in an effort to look tuff !
So the man had no qualms about taking lives.

He is also the Forgotten President. when Americans say clinton they mean ( Save Viqeus )* Hillary
*What about viceus? did she forget?

When China Rammed our lumbering C130 Herculese Intel plane* with a MiG 21 fighter. Then Enterned the Crew and pirated the Air Craft, Bush didn't go to War then.

*You can call it a spy plane but at best its passive spying. It only records RADAR emisions that it can detect in international air space. Dont want it to hear? simple Dont Turn on your set. 

Also you may noticed the Attacks on the USA Stopped on a Dime.

a simple case of " Fucked with the Wrong Man "

I think it says that you didn't really consider the series of events,

I think you wanted to put fourth your opinion and wanted to sneek it in anywhere you could.



I won't insult you as I think it shows cowardice at best but Clearly I take great issuse with your opinion.
Look at your sources again.

It wasn't a C-130 that was hit, it was a Navy EP-3.

Your Right, its an Electronic Warfare version of the PC 3 Orion Primarely used as a Sub Hunter.

And it's a little more than radar collection, one of it's primary missions is communications interception in enemy territory.


Again dont want it to Collect while Flying in International Air Space? Shut down

Ps its knowing what Radars are EI Search, Active Homing, Guidence ETC,   that lets normal advancend countries properly interpet millatary  actions like

standerd patrol, practice sortie, search and rescue, Hostile luanch ETC.

Most advanced Nations willingly allow others to hear as a reciprocol courtesy, For Safty reasons. Even the USSR did this. China did it too, the intercept was to feel out the New Admin in the USA as the other one had been their "Butt Boy" and they had bankrolled his campain.
 
It collided with a Chinese F-8. 

The F8 is a Licecensed Copy of the Mig 21 virtually Identical in profile

Collided ,are you kidding?  The Orion frame was desinged as a transport and many were used as passenger planes The Mig copy is a nimble fighter one of the most nimble pure fighters ever produced.
Ya the pilot sucked ( they have Video tape of him attempting to hold formation in a previous intercept.
It was his fualt entirely. If an F8/Mig 21 wants to hit ram bump or do anything to a PC3 Orion there is nothing the latter could do to aviod it. The F8 Mig 21 Could fly outside loops around an Orion all day long.

The Pan Am 103 (not 007...that was a KAL flight shot down by a russian MiG in 1983) bombing was organized and supported by Khadafy.  There weren't any ties to bin Laden.
I was wrong here too. I maent TWA flight 800 over Long Island New York USA. in 96 I believe.
I was on the USS Grapple.

Ps Kadafy did Flight 103 over Lockerbie Scottland. You dont hear from him anymore ethier, We have some expirence in handling this.
2006-01-01 10:25:14
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|7025|Atlanta, GA USA

Tyferra wrote:

Hmm. Although Michael Moore-on rantings may have swayed my views of America a bit, I think I have my own opinion on this one thing.

What I don't like about America:

The only thing that really pisses me off, is the fact that sure, America is the biggest most powerfull country in the world, but they know it, and frequently talk about/try to show it.
My message to jingoistic Americans: "WE KNOW!" We realise that if you really wanted, you could fart and my country would have been wiped of all but the oldest of maps. We know that America is wealthy, and many people live there, STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!
If other countries were like that we'd have Chinese constantly remind us that they have the most people, or Australia always saying 'land of the formerly captured, home of the world's only poisonous mammal.' they don't, but we know these things anyway.

American's are always saying things like the famous "the land of the free, home of the brave," type drivel that is not only a half-truth, but almost a put-down of any other country. America is 'a land where a few brave and free people live.' it is not the pinnicle of all society and never will be. It is far from this image it so blatently puts out there.

This belief that America is this pinnicle of society leads them to enforce their ideals on everyone else, wether their targets like it or not. A prime example of this is the fucken Vietnam War. Sure, a form of government was enforced on a group of people, but no more than capitalism is enforced on other people of the world. My government system is enforced on me. America thought it was right and Communism was wrong, simple as that, and they couldn't handle that another form of government was being used somewhre else, so they envaded, and quite rightfully lost,
(A side note, since many American's did believe the Vietnam war was a farce and protested about it, it may not be the best example of the American public's role in my America annoyance.)

No-one in the world, save maybe John Howard, want's their country to be another America, yet America continues to think that everyone wants to be like them. That's not true. I like the fact that my small country of about 4 million will never be a world power, and will never have nuclear weapons, (we are completely nuclear free.) I like that we have small cities, our capital takes about 10-15 minutes to walk through. If we were to be more like America, all of that would be wrecked.

So and that's my little annoyance. I by no means consider myself an "America Hater," but that one thing just grinds my gears.

This is somewhat a badly structured rant by me. I apologise for that, but I'm not bothered to go back and fix it. I also apologise to anyone I may have offended, I mean no disrespect.

Peace.
We didn't invade Vietnam.  We were trying to help the South Vietnamese from being taken over by the North Vietnamese.  The South Vietnamese Gov't wanted us there.
2006-01-01 10:30:52
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091

atlvolunteer wrote:

Tyferra wrote:

Hmm. Although Michael Moore-on rantings may have swayed my views of America a bit, I think I have my own opinion on this one thing.

What I don't like about America: bla bla all good shit but you all ready read it so..

The only thing that [. I by no means consider myself an "America Hater," but that one thing just grinds my gears.

This is somewhat a badly structured rant by me. I apologise for that, but I'm not bothered to go back and fix it. I also apologise to anyone I may have offended, I mean no disrespect.

Peace.
We didn't invade Vietnam.  We were trying to help the South Vietnamese from being taken over by the North Vietnamese.  The South Vietnamese Gov't wanted us there.
No shit and they Badly Badly want us back. Fcuk em.
2006-01-01 10:50:29
DocCarnage
Member
+0|7010
America is made up of all nations, we have people from all over the world here.... D'Oh!
Just keep buying all the cool games you guys buy, from American companies. Thanks for the support!
2006-01-02 12:06:45
Sh1fty2k5
MacSwedish
+113|6964|Sweden
I prefer swedish games, cuz EA sucks
2006-01-03 01:16:08
Chou
Member
+737|7045
They need a MC Donalds in Iraq, can you fix that? rofl
2006-01-03 10:48:46
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6989|California

Squig2510 wrote:

This topic actually makes me wonder where this world is going. So many people here flaming entire countries like they know all about those countries and like everyone is the same in those countries. Shame on you! Then there is the age issue. Kids are being surpressed because they are no 'adults' yet. If some of the people I've seen here claim to be adults they really have to review that oppinion. How can people call themself adults if they join this useless flame war? Even more shame on the person who started this topic. The only reason to start a topic like this one is to cause flame wars.
There are always negative things to say or claim about other countries. I'd encourage people to find those positive facts. Even my own country was getting 'attacked' by others with negative facts which I cannot deny. However, I also know the positive things, as for many of the other countries discussed in this topic. Discussions like these are exactly the discussions that cause extremists to think of the most terrible crap. Discussions like these are the ones which cause people to distrust the 'strange' and 'unknown'. Discussions like these are the ones that cause hatred among groups of different people.
I was under the impression that these discussions were no longer held on sensible forums like these. I encourage the moderators to close this topic down before things get out of hand. Please, ask yourself if you're being reasonable when wanting to flame other people because they're American, English, German, French, Canadian, Dutch, Italian, Swedish or any country others than you're from. It makes me feel sad a non-'adult' has to write down this words at such promising beginning of a new year. I'm sorry if I'm causing more anger myself this way, but this just had to be done. And to those who agree with me; bless you!
You need to lighten up. You didn't start to cry as you wrote your missive did you?

I am kidding around, really. This topic wasn't meant to be that serious, but I am glad it at least started some dialog.
2006-01-03 13:24:10
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|7012|MA, USA

Horseman 77 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

isn't it strange that

some will look down on Bill Clinton for being the only president in a long time not to go to war * ( xxxxxx )?

I think that says a lot about the american mentality towards war and violence in general.
* Add ( after being Repeatedly and Savagely attacked )

...

Mogadisho Somalia Massacer during a "Feed the staving" mission. PS ( where was your country for that one? )
...
B.Schuss:  That is not a fair thing to say.  That is like saying, "Some people in Germany beat up Turkish workers.  I think that says a lot about the German mentality toward the rest of the world."  Surely, an exaggeration of the attitude of the average German? 

Your statement is not a fair assessment of Americans.  You are basing your opinion on the rants of a few loud clowns.

Don't get me wrong, I can list 100 things wrong with the Clinton Presidency, but failing to go to war isn't high on the list.

Horseman: Not to nit-pick, but Mogadishu was NOT a massacre.

Early on the day of 3 OCT, about 100 troops were surrounded by a couple thousand Somalis.  As the evening wore on, that number swelled to approximately 350 US troops and some UN troops, surrounded by about 5000 Somalis.

(US troops would not leave until they had all the bodies of their comrades - one body had the frame of a crashed helicopter around it, and took hours to remove.  Also, unfortunately, a couple of bodies had been taken by Somalis, and could not be retrieved.  They were recovered later). 

The final Fatality numbers were 18 US dead to (approximately) 600 Somali.  Again, NOT a massacre.
2006-01-03 14:04:12
Squig2510
Member
+0|6945

Erkut.hv wrote:

Squig2510 wrote:

This topic actually makes me wonder where this world is going. So many people here flaming entire countries like they know all about those countries and like everyone is the same in those countries. Shame on you! Then there is the age issue. Kids are being surpressed because they are no 'adults' yet. If some of the people I've seen here claim to be adults they really have to review that oppinion. How can people call themself adults if they join this useless flame war? Even more shame on the person who started this topic. The only reason to start a topic like this one is to cause flame wars.
There are always negative things to say or claim about other countries. I'd encourage people to find those positive facts. Even my own country was getting 'attacked' by others with negative facts which I cannot deny. However, I also know the positive things, as for many of the other countries discussed in this topic. Discussions like these are exactly the discussions that cause extremists to think of the most terrible crap. Discussions like these are the ones which cause people to distrust the 'strange' and 'unknown'. Discussions like these are the ones that cause hatred among groups of different people.
I was under the impression that these discussions were no longer held on sensible forums like these. I encourage the moderators to close this topic down before things get out of hand. Please, ask yourself if you're being reasonable when wanting to flame other people because they're American, English, German, French, Canadian, Dutch, Italian, Swedish or any country others than you're from. It makes me feel sad a non-'adult' has to write down this words at such promising beginning of a new year. I'm sorry if I'm causing more anger myself this way, but this just had to be done. And to those who agree with me; bless you!
You need to lighten up. You didn't start to cry as you wrote your missive did you?

I am kidding around, really. This topic wasn't meant to be that serious, but I am glad it at least started some dialog.
If that's the case, I'm sorry to involve you in this. I was under the impression you intentionally wrote this to start a seriouse flame-topic. You might want to do something about your obnoxiouseness though...
2006-01-03 14:27:34
DarkStar
Member
+0|7047|Atlanta, Ga
I've never understood why people want to create threads like this.  All it does is piss people off and show the immature side of the certain members of the forums.  Nobody is going to love/hate every country.  You don't like a America.....fine.  No amount of bitching about on an internet forum is going to change anything.

Last edited by DarkStar (2006-01-03 14:35:26)

2006-01-03 14:57:51
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6989|California
It was and it wasn't Squig. I was somewhat curious at to why people hated us. However on the flip side, I really don't care what people think. As Darkstar said, all the gum flapping we do here isn't going to change a thing. It's just funny seeing people fly off the handle over something they read on an internet forum.
2006-01-03 17:15:13
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091

whittsend wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

isn't it strange that

some will look down on Bill Clinton for being the only president in a long time not to go to war * ( xxxxxx )?

I think that says a lot about the american mentality towards war and violence in general.
* Add ( after being Repeatedly and Savagely attacked )

...

Mogadisho Somalia Massacer during a "Feed the staving" mission. PS ( where was your country for that one? )
...
B.Schuss:  That is not a fair thing to say.  That is like saying, "Some people in Germany beat up Turkish workers.  I think that says a lot about the German mentality toward the rest of the world."  Surely, an exaggeration of the attitude of the average German? 

Your statement is not a fair assessment of Americans.  You are basing your opinion on the rants of a few loud clowns.

Don't get me wrong, I can list 100 things wrong with the Clinton Presidency, but failing to go to war isn't high on the list.

Horseman: Not to nit-pick, but Mogadishu was NOT a massacre.

Early on the day of 3 OCT, about 100 troops were surrounded by a couple thousand Somalis.  As the evening wore on, that number swelled to approximately 350 US troops and some UN troops, surrounded by about 5000 Somalis.

(US troops would not leave until they had all the bodies of their comrades - one body had the frame of a crashed helicopter around it, and took hours to remove.  Also, unfortunately, a couple of bodies had been taken by Somalis, and could not be retrieved.  They were recovered later). 

The final Fatality numbers were 18 US dead to (approximately) 600 Somali.  Again, NOT a massacre.
Not a massacre?

Are you F#@$ kidding me.

They dont even have an Acurate number for how many Somalians Casualties there were.

Blacks don't Count?

Al Qeada Engineered the whole thing and Thousands died.

Clinton Killed more blacks than any other president I dont know why they love him.
most of the people in WACO Texas were black. But every one thinks they were killing Crackers so its cool. lol
2006-01-03 18:51:35
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7068
I don't HATE America, but it worries me because alot of the people seem very Nationalistic and have frank disregard for any non-Americans or people with a different culture. Alot of people are also WAY too trusting in their governments (Democrat/Republican). Americans are also very scared and scared people do volitile things. The control of large business and corporations is also an issue in America.

I wont get started on Bush...
2006-01-03 18:56:07
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7068

atlvolunteer wrote:

We didn't invade Vietnam.  We were trying to help the South Vietnamese from being taken over by the North Vietnamese.  The South Vietnamese Gov't wanted us there.
The government may have, but they were seriously disfunctions and corrupt. The South Vietnamese people wanted Ho Chi Mihn, but Americans couldnt accept that because of this stupid domino theory.
2006-01-03 19:28:41
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|7012|MA, USA

Horseman 77 wrote:

Not a massacre?

Are you F#@$ kidding me.

They dont even have an Acurate number for how many Somalians Casualties there were.
You included it in a list of justifications for war, strongly implying that it was Americans who were massacred.  As I indicated, they were not.  Now you seem to be saying it is the Somalis who were massacred.  Well, the term massacre implies a certain cruelty or deliberate intent:

Merriam-Webster wrote:

Main Entry: 1mas·sa·cre
Pronunciation: 'ma-si-k&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French
1 : the act or an instance of killing a number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings under circumstances of atrocity or cruelty
2 : a cruel or wanton murder
3 : a wholesale slaughter of animals
4 : an act of complete destruction <the author's massacre of traditional federalist presuppositions -- R. G. McCloskey>
None of that was present in the death of Somalis on 3 OCT in Mogadishu.  As I noted previously, the Americans were outnumberd (by a factor of about 14 to 1), and were on the defensive most of the time.  It's hard to arrange a massacre when the enemy outnumbers you like that.  The enemy may have obliged us by continually entering our field of fire, but it wasn't as if we were looking for them to increase the body count that day.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Blacks don't Count?
Don't be stupid.  The fact that anyone there was black is purely incedental, and you know it.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Al Qeada Engineered the whole thing and Thousands died.
Thousands?  Hardly.  We were only fighting a few thousand of them.  Do you think we somehow managed to kill _all_ of them?  No.  We are good, but not that good.  Best estimates are around 600 Somali KIA, _MAYBE_ 1000 WIA.  Given that the Somalis could have stopped attacking at any time and drastically decreased their losses, it hardly qualifies as a massacre of Somalis by US Forces.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Clinton Killed more blacks than any other president I dont know why they love him.
most of the people in WACO Texas were black. But every one thinks they were killing Crackers so its cool. lol
I don't like Clinton, but your hatred of him seems pathological.  I think trying to label Clinton as a racist who went out of his way to kill blacks in Somalia will be a tough sell.  The truth is that he went out of his way to limit the amount of killing that could be done in Somalia; by denying the military resouces that could have ended the battle on 3 October before it got going.  I believe he was criminally negligent in his lack of support of the troops, but I hardly think he was a racist intent on killing as many blacks as he could.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-01-03 19:56:08)

2006-01-03 19:39:17
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7007

Horseman 77 wrote:

Clinton Killed more blacks than any other president I dont know why they love him.
most of the people in WACO Texas were black. But every one thinks they were killing Crackers so its cool. lol
Alright dude, you are cut, just from having no idea what Waco was actually about. I don't know where you get your sources but the last thing it was about was a race issue as you are trying to imply.
2006-01-03 19:53:35
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|7012|MA, USA

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

I don't HATE America, but it worries me because alot of the people seem very Nationalistic and have frank disregard for any non-Americans or people with a different culture. Alot of people are also WAY too trusting in their governments (Democrat/Republican). Americans are also very scared and scared people do volitile things. The control of large business and corporations is also an issue in America.
Where do you people get this nonsense?  TV?  Have you seen our polls and elections?  Most show that opinions in this country are _widely_ divergent depending on a basket of factors.  Getting two Americans to agree on anything is like herding cats; yet, somehow, people here on the internet seem to have Americans all figured out.  Your sweeping generalizations of Americans are no more valid than if I were to say all Aussies are named Bruce and Sheila.  It's laughably ridiculous.  The world isn't black and white, and neither is America.  The truth consists of shades of grey.

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

The South Vietnamese people wanted Ho Chi Mihn, but Americans couldnt accept that because of this stupid domino theory.
That's not true either.  The truth is, most Vietnamese, South or (to a lesser extent) North wouldn't have known Ho Chi Minh if they found him in their soup.  They certainly didn't understand his Communist ideology.  Those that actively supported the North did so for mostly nationalistic reasons, or, as is commonly so in a Communist society, because to do otherwise was to risk persecution.

You may argue that the Government of South Vietnam was neither democratic or valid, but that does not make the converse (i.e. that the North _was_) true either.  The truth is they were both bad, but given the fact that the North was conspicuously nasty (--events in Vietnam after the North won bear this out - wholesale executions, re-educations, aggression vs. neighbors and mass exodus of population--), I'd have taken my chances supporting the South any day.
2006-01-03 21:51:55
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091
Wrong, Sorry,

   I follow'd Waco very closely. David Koresh or wtf he called himself had 30 or abouts AR15 upper recievers not the Whole gun. He had bought them legaly. He knew after the Ban they'd be grandfather'd in and worth 6 times what he paid. Thats the only reason the BTAF took intrest in him,

Ya there where a lot of blacks in the Branch Davidians You wouldnt know it from watching the news.

My point about the Death in Somolia, Was  Clinton would waste lives,

He Had no qualms about wasting life, How people see him as " To smart to go to WAR " or thrifty with anyones lives is beyond me.
2006-01-03 21:54:06
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091

freebirdpat wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

Clinton Killed more blacks than any other president I dont know why they love him.
most of the people in WACO Texas were black. But every one thinks they were killing Crackers so its cool. lol
Alright dude, you are cut, just from having no idea what Waco was actually about. I don't know where you get your sources but the last thing it was about was a race issue as you are trying to imply.
How do you Figure I was implying Race?, and please do your Best to fill me US In about WACO

Start a Thread have fun.
2006-01-03 22:01:45
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7091
Whitsend,

None of that was present in the death of Somalis on 3 OCT in Mogadishu.  As I noted previously, the Americans were outnumberd (by a factor of about 14 to 1), and were on the defensive most of the time.  It's hard to arrange a massacre when the enemy outnumbers you like that.  The enemy may have obliged us by continually entering our field of fire, but it wasn't as if we were looking for them to increase the body count that day.

BlackHawks... You have expirenced them in the Game?
I never bitch about BlackHawks Raping in BF2 becuase thats what their for and thats what they do Well.

                            " Massacre "   By bill ... to Smart to fight  "    clinton

                               People died in a massacre, He wasted lives. ours and theirs.

                            The question should be why dosen't everyone hate him?
2006-01-03 22:32:40
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7068

whitesend wrote:

Thousands?  Hardly.  We were only fighting a few thousand of them.  Do you think we somehow managed to kill _all_ of them?  No.  We are good, but not that good.  Best estimates are around 600 Somali KIA, _MAYBE_ 1000 WIA.  Given that the Somalis could have stopped attacking at any time and drastically decreased their losses, it hardly qualifies as a massacre of Somalis by US Forces.
That's total bullshit. The fucking Pakistani/UN/US convoy they sent in was 100 vehicles long. Pretty much each of those vehicles had a .50 on top. In a shanty town, it takes ALONG time for 7.62mms to stop, let alone 12.7mms. In a city with NO census, and where muslim culture is to bury bodies soon after death.

I reckon many thousands would have died. Mostly civilians.

Last edited by Greenie_Beazinie (2006-01-03 22:33:38)

2006-01-03 22:38:07
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7068

whittsend wrote:

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

I don't HATE America, but it worries me because alot of the people seem very Nationalistic and have frank disregard for any non-Americans or people with a different culture. Alot of people are also WAY too trusting in their governments (Democrat/Republican). Americans are also very scared and scared people do volitile things. The control of large business and corporations is also an issue in America.
Where do you people get this nonsense?  TV?  Have you seen our polls and elections?  Most show that opinions in this country are _widely_ divergent depending on a basket of factors.  Getting two Americans to agree on anything is like herding cats; yet, somehow, people here on the internet seem to have Americans all figured out.  Your sweeping generalizations of Americans are no more valid than if I were to say all Aussies are named Bruce and Sheila.  It's laughably ridiculous.  The world isn't black and white, and neither is America.  The truth consists of shades of grey.

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

The South Vietnamese people wanted Ho Chi Mihn, but Americans couldnt accept that because of this stupid domino theory.
That's not true either.  The truth is, most Vietnamese, South or (to a lesser extent) North wouldn't have known Ho Chi Minh if they found him in their soup.  They certainly didn't understand his Communist ideology.  Those that actively supported the North did so for mostly nationalistic reasons, or, as is commonly so in a Communist society, because to do otherwise was to risk persecution.

You may argue that the Government of South Vietnam was neither democratic or valid, but that does not make the converse (i.e. that the North _was_) true either.  The truth is they were both bad, but given the fact that the North was conspicuously nasty (--events in Vietnam after the North won bear this out - wholesale executions, re-educations, aggression vs. neighbors and mass exodus of population--), I'd have taken my chances supporting the South any day.
I can comment on Americans as much as I like. In the modern age, we have something called Internet in which people from all over the world can converge and learn about each others. My opinion is based on all the Americans i've seen on the internet over the last 3 years ive been browsing forums as well as Americans i've met on my travels there.

If there was a democratic election in the South, Ho Chi Mihn would've been voted in.
2006-01-04 04:01:43
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7095|Cologne, Germany

I will happily admit that most of my knowledge of americans comes from those I have met here on the forums, and some of my "knowledge" about america itself comes from media reports.

As far as US foreign policy is concerned, I learned a lot about it while being a major in contemporary history / foreign relations at cologne university a couple of years ago. that, of course, was before 09/11.

I can only judge people on what they say here. generalizations won't help and are mostly unjust.

Nevertheless, I still believe that America as a nation has some unique characteristics which translate into the general public, i.e. the "average" american. that has to do with america's specific history.

I am talking about a certain sense of patriotism, a certain view on values like freedom of speech and democracy, and - in some aspects - a sort of "gunslinger mentality" when it comes to handling conflicts.
This is also represented in America's laws and constitution.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the majority of people growing up in a country will have the values that are inherent to that country, and will have been educated based on that country's specific history ( as far as school books are concerned, for example ).

Example: based on our specific history ( having caused and subsequently lost two world wars ) we have a paragraph in our constitution that forbids that war should ever be waged again from our territory. This is why Germany can only engage in foreign military conflicts under an UN or NATO mandate and even that was discussed for a long time. This stand has greatly influenced the view on war among the germans themselves, as it is represented in our school books. It is basically etched into us from childhood on. It has also led to a certain mistrust against the military in general.

Now, the US on the other hand has no such paragraph in the constitution and based on their specific
history ( having been quite successful in their military campaigns lately ) the view on war and the military among the general public is a lot more positive than here in germny. In some way, war is considered a valuable option when dealing with foreign problems.

same goes most likely for every other nation on this planet and consequently, everyone here will have a slightly different approach when discussing certain topics on these forums.

so, in conclusion, while I realize that broad generalizations are not justified ( and I believe I have made that clear before ) I still believe most of us have a set of unique characteristics or values which is based on the country we come from.
2006-01-04 04:20:25
Trobow
Member
+1|6970|Kettering, Ohio
SO, check it out.  I have a read a couple pages of posts about hating the United States of America and how Europe is full of commie bastards, this is what I have to say=====


Europe isn't bad at all.  Not all Europeans hate Americans, just the uneducated ones that look at one side of the American "culture".  They look at a couple of decisions made by one man and say, "All Americans suck."  That one man, and we all know who I am talking about, may have made a couple of bad decsions but who doesn't?  Look at Portugal, what have they ever did any World Wars or the Iraq War?   

The war in Iraq, bad intel or not, give us a break.  The US is the one spearheading the change for the people.  Would you rather see a 12 year old girl in school learning about Iraq history and eating lunch with her friends or would you rather see her with a sheet over her head with a 1st grade education?  Personally, I like to see the change and freedoms they have now. 

Who helped the Brits in WW2?  The US.  As each country was liberated, no one complained about occupation or their freedoms.  Who helped in WW1??  The US did.  We dont just sit back and wait for things to affect us any longer after Pearl Harbor and Sept.  11. 

I enjoy Europeans, Asians, Australians, and South Americans.  I enjoy the company of all those countrymen and women.  BUT, I must say that if it wasn't for you guys, America wouldn't be so diverse as it is now.


You may hate us now, but THANKS for your ancestors immigrating here those many years ago.






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PS:  When you need our help, sod off!

 

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