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Poll

Did Jesus Exist?

Yes, he was the son of God34%34% - 105
Yes, he was a regular guy, but not the son of God10%10% - 31
Yes, he was a regular guy and God doesn't exist22%22% - 68
Not Enough Evidence to Prove or deny his Existence12%12% - 38
No, he's a myth, but God does exist0%0% - 0
No, he's a myth and God doesn't exist8%8% - 27
Jesus Christ, Another Religious Thread?11%11% - 34
Total: 303
2007-07-10 23:40:00
mafropetee
Member
+18|6161|Altamonte Springs, FL
i definately believe he existed. way too much proof outside the bible of that.

if he was the son of god... well, here is my take on it:
we arent meant to know such things. if there is a god, i dont think we are meant to understand his existance until we join him. i dont even think we are supposed to try to understand. organized religion pisses me off, because it causes so much problems, such as ignorance. i have chosen to have an open-mind about all things spiritual. god might exist, he might not. jesus might have been his son, he might not have. i might be the result of some divine creation, or i might be the by-product of some natural explosion that happened in the universe billions of years ago. there is about as much REAL, SOLID evidence that god exists as there is that a giant spaghetti monster existed. the bible condemns sinners, yet it was written by man, who is the very same sinners said bible condemns. so whos to say those men werent just sinning when they wrote the bible? giving people false hope just for the fun of it because they were twisted, sick freaks? or perhaps they were just normal story tellers, who conceived great stories that teach life lessons, and someone down the line took it waayyy too seriously? ive had some spiritual moments, but none that truly pove to me that god does, or for that matter, doesnt, exist.

so really, if there is a heaven, be a good person and be true to yourself, and i believe that is the only requirement to get in. if there is no heaven, then be a good person and be true to yourself anyway so that while your passing away you can be proud that you lead a satisfying life. i would love to see what god says to those super-christians who wish they could legally burn anyone who thinks their religion is even the slightest bit mistaken. "ohh mighty god, we have served you well, what is your judgement?" GOD: "..... wow. you guys are idiots. pack your bags. your goin straight to hell to think about what youve done." A RANDOM JEWISH ONLOOKER IN HEAVEN WHO LEAD A PRODUCTIVE, INSPIRING, AND OPEN LIFE: "hahaha! losers!"

theres my two cents. now im off to bed.
2007-07-10 23:40:04
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|6692|Florida, United States

Smitty5613 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:


ur right, i got owned... i think im gonna change and believe that we came from monkeys... you win, goodnight...
I don't understand how you are so arrogant to imply that we are better than monkeys and that we could not have come from them, yet you instantly belittle yourself before your god.  Where is your logic?  Your pride?
w8 a minute, u think we are equal to monkeys??? and yes, i belittle myself before my God, logic? i guess i need to sho lots of logic when im arguing online... and pride? well im just too damn good to show it..
Equal to monkeys?  No.  We evolved from them.  And you're damned right you'd better show logic, at least in this sub-forum.  It's called the Debate and Serious Talk.  That means you have to debate your beliefs.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you're a Christian.
2007-07-10 23:50:38
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6544|Middle of nowhere, California

Havok wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

Havok wrote:


I don't understand how you are so arrogant to imply that we are better than monkeys and that we could not have come from them, yet you instantly belittle yourself before your god.  Where is your logic?  Your pride?
w8 a minute, u think we are equal to monkeys??? and yes, i belittle myself before my God, logic? i guess i need to sho lots of logic when im arguing online... and pride? well im just too damn good to show it..
Equal to monkeys?  No.  We evolved from them.  And you're damned right you'd better show logic, at least in this sub-forum.  It's called the Debate and Serious Talk.  That means you have to debate your beliefs.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you're a Christian.
I'm a Christian because i believe there is on almighty God who created us all, who loves us, and all we have to do to go to Heaven is to accept him as our lord and savior.... but to you guys, thats just a fairy tale, and trying to talk about this is like trying to mix oil and water....
2007-07-10 23:55:03
mafropetee
Member
+18|6161|Altamonte Springs, FL

Smitty5613 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:


w8 a minute, u think we are equal to monkeys??? and yes, i belittle myself before my God, logic? i guess i need to sho lots of logic when im arguing online... and pride? well im just too damn good to show it..
Equal to monkeys?  No.  We evolved from them.  And you're damned right you'd better show logic, at least in this sub-forum.  It's called the Debate and Serious Talk.  That means you have to debate your beliefs.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you're a Christian.
I'm a Christian because i believe there is on almighty God who created us all, who loves us, and all we have to do to go to Heaven is to accept him as our lord and savior.... but to you guys, thats just a fairy tale, and trying to talk about this is like trying to mix oil and water....
its not a fairy tale to us. well... its not a fairy tale to me. i just think its beyond human understanding. is possible, but to say that its TRUTH is just silly. if god were to walk right up to me and be like "hey, just so ya know, i exist. kthanks." then i would believe in him. but until that happens, i choose to be open-minded and think of all explanations as possible.
2007-07-10 23:56:11
velocitychaos
Member
+26|6514|Brisbane Australia
Well I've heard that there's this guy called Jesus and he lives in Mexico.....mmmm......

Might google him and see if i can get hold him and ask if he's the son of.....er......what's his name?
2007-07-10 23:56:36
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|6692|Florida, United States

Smitty5613 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:


w8 a minute, u think we are equal to monkeys??? and yes, i belittle myself before my God, logic? i guess i need to sho lots of logic when im arguing online... and pride? well im just too damn good to show it..
Equal to monkeys?  No.  We evolved from them.  And you're damned right you'd better show logic, at least in this sub-forum.  It's called the Debate and Serious Talk.  That means you have to debate your beliefs.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you're a Christian.
I'm a Christian because i believe there is on almighty God who created us all, who loves us, and all we have to do to go to Heaven is to accept him as our lord and savior.... but to you guys, thats just a fairy tale, and trying to talk about this is like trying to mix oil and water....
Ok, that was a good step in the right direction.  You actually told me what I asked.  My next question is why this is more believable to you than evolutionary theories.
2007-07-11 00:16:13
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6692|Canberra, AUS

mafropetee wrote:

i definately believe he existed. way too much proof outside the bible of that.

if he was the son of god... well, here is my take on it:
we arent meant to know such things. if there is a god, i dont think we are meant to understand his existance until we join him. i dont even think we are supposed to try to understand. organized religion pisses me off, because it causes so much problems, such as ignorance. i have chosen to have an open-mind about all things spiritual. god might exist, he might not. jesus might have been his son, he might not have. i might be the result of some divine creation, or i might be the by-product of some natural explosion that happened in the universe billions of years ago. there is about as much REAL, SOLID evidence that god exists as there is that a giant spaghetti monster existed. the bible condemns sinners, yet it was written by man, who is the very same sinners said bible condemns. so whos to say those men werent just sinning when they wrote the bible? giving people false hope just for the fun of it because they were twisted, sick freaks? or perhaps they were just normal story tellers, who conceived great stories that teach life lessons, and someone down the line took it waayyy too seriously? ive had some spiritual moments, but none that truly pove to me that god does, or for that matter, doesnt, exist.

so really, if there is a heaven, be a good person and be true to yourself, and i believe that is the only requirement to get in. if there is no heaven, then be a good person and be true to yourself anyway so that while your passing away you can be proud that you lead a satisfying life. i would love to see what god says to those super-christians who wish they could legally burn anyone who thinks their religion is even the slightest bit mistaken. "ohh mighty god, we have served you well, what is your judgement?" GOD: "..... wow. you guys are idiots. pack your bags. your goin straight to hell to think about what youve done." A RANDOM JEWISH ONLOOKER IN HEAVEN WHO LEAD A PRODUCTIVE, INSPIRING, AND OPEN LIFE: "hahaha! losers!"

theres my two cents. now im off to bed.
That man speaks the truth!
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-07-11 00:45:35
agent146
Member
+127|6404|Jesus Land aka Canada

usmarine2005 wrote:

Jesus..I like him very much.  But he no help me hit curveball.
agree. he is real but he can't help me pass this physics exam
but seriuosly ya he is real no doubt but it is his divinity is what is in question
2007-07-11 00:59:21
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6734
I believe he exists... and if you don't... why would you trouble yourself with asking if he does or doesn't... When you see the wonderment in a little kids eyes when he sees something for the first time.... u have to know that there is a god...  and if you dont... thats cool too
Love is the answer
2007-07-11 02:53:32
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6639|London, England
Ok.

What about Moses and Muhammad? Prophets of God or hepped up on PCP? They don't call it angel dust for no reason.
2007-07-11 03:39:52
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6692|Canberra, AUS

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

I believe he exists... and if you don't... why would you trouble yourself with asking if he does or doesn't... When you see the wonderment in a little kids eyes when he sees something for the first time.... u have to know that there is a god...  and if you dont... thats cool too
Ignorance is never cool.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-07-11 04:15:57
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6775|Argentina

CommieChipmunk wrote:

I keep finding myself in these same damn threads. Religion threads are like a plague that hits bf2s every couple of weeks.
Historical thread, not religious.  We are discussing if Jesus did exist or was amyth, nothing else dude.
2007-07-11 04:19:33
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

Smitty5613 wrote:

wow, so mayny people are bashing Christianity here, it must be for a reason? maybe He is real and they just dont want to accept it?
Who's bashing? Questioning historical events is not bashing. Looking at available historical evidence not written or edited by religous zealots is how to do that. There is no evidence that the Bible has any solid basis in historical fact, there are events in the Bible that match events described by historians - but that's about it.

Smitty5613 wrote:

ur right, i got owned... i think im gonna change and believe that we came from monkeys... you win, goodnight...
Oh dear, you're one of them. "Came from monkeys..." - one line putting an end to arguments based on logic and reasoning, all because of faith. But what is faith? Faith in what? The only reason you believe what you do is that you have been taught to. Someone has told you that the Bible is right and it is the "Word of God", or some such similar nonsense. What if everything you base your faith and belief on, a text which was written by men and very carefully edited together, is a lie? It is investigating the events that led upto the adoption of Christianity by the Roman empire and the compilation of the Bible that interest me, everything I have ever read is consistent with my views that the bulk of modern Christian belief was "made up" by the Romans - and not from original sources.

If the Romans had never written the Bible, you would never have held these beliefs.

akajoneye wrote:

It's nice to see "Yes, he was the son of God" is in the lead. The Bible has countless references to Jesus and hundreds of pages of his own words. I for one have TOTAL FAITH that Jesus was real and he died on the cross for my SINS!  Your other choice would be to NOT believe and spend the rest of your life in Hell.  PERIOD.
Interesting concept of voting you have if you think "Yes, he was the son of God" is really in the lead. 33% when all the other options are variations of him not being the son of God, is not being in the lead - two thirds of people seem to believe he was not the son of God.

As for the Hell thing - I'll take my chances. The traditional Christian fear mongering doesn't phase me in the slightest - it's just pathetic.
2007-07-11 04:26:48
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6775|Argentina

Smitty5613 wrote:

Havok wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:


w8 a minute, u think we are equal to monkeys??? and yes, i belittle myself before my God, logic? i guess i need to sho lots of logic when im arguing online... and pride? well im just too damn good to show it..
Equal to monkeys?  No.  We evolved from them.  And you're damned right you'd better show logic, at least in this sub-forum.  It's called the Debate and Serious Talk.  That means you have to debate your beliefs.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you're a Christian.
I'm a Christian because i believe there is on almighty God who created us all, who loves us, and all we have to do to go to Heaven is to accept him as our lord and savior.... but to you guys, thats just a fairy tale, and trying to talk about this is like trying to mix oil and water....
You are free to believe whatever you want.  You are free to believe that Jesus was the son of God and walked over the water.  This thread is not meant to bash the Christianity at all.  But don't criticize other people for believing in science, in a theroy that has been proven to death, just coz it ruins your fairy tale.  Anyone denying the theory of evolution is deluded.  Take a velociraptor and a bird and tell me they don't have the same origins.  Take a chimp and look yourself into the mirror.  You want respect, respect other people first.
2007-07-11 05:26:24
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6508|Menlo Park, CA

usmarine2005 wrote:

Jesus..I like him very much.  But he no help me hit curveball.
+1 for the Major League reference!! lol

If Cerrano likes him, I like him!!!
2007-07-11 05:40:16
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6775|Argentina

fadedsteve wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Jesus..I like him very much.  But he no help me hit curveball.
+1 for the Major League reference!! lol

If Cerrano likes him, I like him!!!
I loved that movie, lol.and the second one as well.
2007-07-11 05:41:44
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6308|Éire

akajoneye wrote:

It's nice to see "Yes, he was the son of God" is in the lead. The Bible has countless references to Jesus and hundreds of pages of his own words. I for one have TOTAL FAITH that Jesus was real and he died on the cross for my SINS!  Your other choice would be to NOT believe and spend the rest of your life in Hell.  PERIOD.
I almost wish there was some sort of afterlife so I could see the look on your face when you find out God doesn't exist ...that would be a bit of a catch 22 situation though wouldn't it!
2007-07-11 07:01:58
BigmacK
Back from the Dead.
+628|6768|Chicago.
akajoneye posted this in a report (I think he meant to make a post in this thread).

akajoneye wrote:

Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will never see my face in the afterlife that you "wish" about. I'm not saying this the Bible says it. There are a couple books out there, one is called 23 Minutes in Hell and the other is 90 Minutes in Heaven. I encourage you to read them. The 23 minutes in Hell book will give you Non Believers a glimse into the future you will have with your other "cool" friends that chose to live their Earthly lives without experiencing the great gifts GOD has given us to enjoy.
2007-07-11 07:06:51
akajoneye
Member
+2|6154

Braddock wrote:

akajoneye wrote:

It's nice to see "Yes, he was the son of God" is in the lead. The Bible has countless references to Jesus and hundreds of pages of his own words. I for one have TOTAL FAITH that Jesus was real and he died on the cross for my SINS!  Your other choice would be to NOT believe and spend the rest of your life in Hell.  PERIOD.
I almost wish there was some sort of afterlife so I could see the look on your face when you find out God doesn't exist ...that would be a bit of a catch 22 situation though wouldn't it!
Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will never see my face in the afterlife that you "wish" about.  I'm not saying this the Bible says it. I encourage you to read 2 books:  23 Minutes in Hell and 90 Minutes in Heaven.  The 23 minutes in Hell book is really "awakening". It gives non believers a glimse into the future they will be spending with all their "cool" friends from their earthly lives.
2007-07-11 07:08:43
topthrill05
Member
+125|6595|Rochester NY USA

Spark wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

I believe he exists... and if you don't... why would you trouble yourself with asking if he does or doesn't... When you see the wonderment in a little kids eyes when he sees something for the first time.... u have to know that there is a god...  and if you dont... thats cool too
Ignorance is never cool.
So now if someone believes in God they are ignorant?
2007-07-11 07:08:56
akajoneye
Member
+2|6154

BigmacK wrote:

akajoneye posted this in a report (I think he meant to make a post in this thread).

akajoneye wrote:

Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will never see my face in the afterlife that you "wish" about. I'm not saying this the Bible says it. There are a couple books out there, one is called 23 Minutes in Hell and the other is 90 Minutes in Heaven. I encourage you to read them. The 23 minutes in Hell book will give you Non Believers a glimse into the future you will have with your other "cool" friends that chose to live their Earthly lives without experiencing the great gifts GOD has given us to enjoy.
Yes, my mistake. I'm new to this posting routine.  Thanks for putting it back up.
2007-07-11 07:17:27
topthrill05
Member
+125|6595|Rochester NY USA
Because you are new I will warn you that believing in God on these forums is a nasty business.

Watch yer back.
2007-07-11 07:25:55
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6308|Éire

akajoneye wrote:

Braddock wrote:

akajoneye wrote:

It's nice to see "Yes, he was the son of God" is in the lead. The Bible has countless references to Jesus and hundreds of pages of his own words. I for one have TOTAL FAITH that Jesus was real and he died on the cross for my SINS!  Your other choice would be to NOT believe and spend the rest of your life in Hell.  PERIOD.
I almost wish there was some sort of afterlife so I could see the look on your face when you find out God doesn't exist ...that would be a bit of a catch 22 situation though wouldn't it!
Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will never see my face in the afterlife that you "wish" about.  I'm not saying this the Bible says it. I encourage you to read 2 books:  23 Minutes in Hell and 90 Minutes in Heaven.  The 23 minutes in Hell book is really "awakening". It gives non believers a glimse into the future they will be spending with all their "cool" friends from their earthly lives.
I was raised a Catholic until I rejected all the dogma and presumptions of the church. I used to stand in church and drone mechanically with everyone else and learn my prayers by rote. It wasn't easy openly rejecting the church here in Ireland back when I did but I couldn't continue in blind ignorance.

I now reject all forms of organised religion but believe that this does not mean I am not a spiritual person. I believe we as humans are missing the bigger picture and find it easier to attribute all the amazing things in this life to an identifiable figure of some sort ...a 'God'. This whole universe is alive like a giant organism and we are all part of it, that is what I believe is 'God' and we are all part of it. This theory has similarities with strands of Buddhist thought and other philosophies.

I've read a lot of the Bible and most of it seems to me to have been translated to the point where we will never truly know what was originally meant. A lot of it is also very insulting e.g. "menstruating women should be shunned" etc. and the fact that it is undeniably edited by humans (predominantly male) means its authenticity is questionable at best.

Do you believe your God is full of love for all mankind? Do you believe that this same God would punish a person in eternal damnation or purgatory after having lived a good life and developing their intellect over their whole life and coming to a reasoned decision not to believe in a God?
2007-07-11 07:43:13
akajoneye
Member
+2|6154

Havok wrote:

Spark wrote:

akajoneye wrote:

It's nice to see "Yes, he was the son of God" is in the lead. The Bible has countless references to Jesus and hundreds of pages of his own words. I for one have TOTAL FAITH that Jesus was real and he died on the cross for my SINS!  Your other choice would be to NOT believe and spend the rest of your life in Hell.  PERIOD.
Nice to see that ignorance and condescension still run free in the world.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

To akajoneye, do you really believe you were born with "sins" even though you had not taken your first breath?  Do you really think that you messed up your life in "God's eyes" just by being born, and that only by killing his own son (Jesus), that God would be happy?  Doesn't that sound just a little bit strange to you?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We are all born into sin because of Adam and Eve. God has endless love and he sent his ownly son to bare the sins of the WORLD by dying on the Cross so that if we accept Jesus our sins will be wiped clean.  It doesn't sound strange at all to me. It makes me feel good.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now I've only read Genesis in the Bible, but even if there are direct quotes from Jesus saying that he is the son of God, why would you believe it?  If I had someone write a book about me with direct quotes from me saying I was born from a virgin mother and that I was the son of God, would you believe me?  I'm gonna guess, no, you wouldn't believe me.  So what makes the Bible so great?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What makes the Bible so great is that it was written by MANY people, some very plain people too. Not by one guy without "crazy" ideas. They have all quoted the word of GOD and the words of Jesus. How can that not be great?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And yes, I'm "a non-believer".  And if you think I'm gonna waste my life worrying about the afterlife so much that I'm going to alter the way I live my life to be more ideal in the view of the Church (which has done countless criminal acts in the past; hardly making it ideal), you're out of your mind.  Even if I am wrong and there really is a God, according to your Bible, I'd would be forgiven because your God is "all-forgiving".

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Religion will not save you, the Church will not save you, ONLY having Faith that Jesus was brought to this earth to burden your sins and to die for you. You have to accept this and ask Jesus to come into your life to be Forgivening for your sins.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Which brings me to my next point.  If God is all-forgiving, how can there be a Hell?  Wouldn't he forgive the criminals and let them go to Heaven?  Even if there is some crime that is so heinous and so evil that was committed by man, wouldn't God forgive them if he is truly "all-forgiving"?  Or was that part figurative just like the Genesis chapter?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
God created Hell to make a home for Satan and his demons after the second coming of the Lord. When Jesus comes and takes his people with him to Heaven, the non-believers will be sent to Hell along with Satan forever.  ANYONE can be forgiven of there sins. Even serial killers. If they are truly sorry for their sinful lives and repent of there sins and accept Jesus they will be forgiven.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Final point: Don't you all love how parts of the Bible are taken literally until they are proven incorrect, in which case they become figurative?  I'd bet any amount of money that if you lived in 15th century Europe, you were taught that the world really was created in a week.  Nowadays, the leading Church authority says that was meant to be taken figuratively because "time is fluid in God's eyes".  What about the part they say in Church just before the "Our Father" prayer about "...on the 3rd day he rose again..."?  Is that figurative too or is that literal?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not a scholar, pastor, preacher, etc. I know the Bible is scrutanzied by many people trying their hardest to find inconsistancies.  It's too bad.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If you actually read my blabbering, you'll see I use very simple logic to disprove the messages of the very complex Christian Church.  I encourage you, akajoneye, to prove me wrong in any of these arguments.

Last edited by akajoneye (2007-07-11 07:44:19)

2007-07-11 07:53:31
akajoneye
Member
+2|6154

Braddock wrote:

akajoneye wrote:

Braddock wrote:


I almost wish there was some sort of afterlife so I could see the look on your face when you find out God doesn't exist ...that would be a bit of a catch 22 situation though wouldn't it!
Until you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you will never see my face in the afterlife that you "wish" about.  I'm not saying this the Bible says it. I encourage you to read 2 books:  23 Minutes in Hell and 90 Minutes in Heaven.  The 23 minutes in Hell book is really "awakening". It gives non believers a glimse into the future they will be spending with all their "cool" friends from their earthly lives.
I was raised a Catholic until I rejected all the dogma and presumptions of the church. I used to stand in church and drone mechanically with everyone else and learn my prayers by rote. It wasn't easy openly rejecting the church here in Ireland back when I did but I couldn't continue in blind ignorance.

I now reject all forms of organised religion but believe that this does not mean I am not a spiritual person. I believe we as humans are missing the bigger picture and find it easier to attribute all the amazing things in this life to an identifiable figure of some sort ...a 'God'. This whole universe is alive like a giant organism and we are all part of it, that is what I believe is 'God' and we are all part of it. This theory has similarities with strands of Buddhist thought and other philosophies.

I've read a lot of the Bible and most of it seems to me to have been translated to the point where we will never truly know what was originally meant. A lot of it is also very insulting e.g. "menstruating women should be shunned" etc. and the fact that it is undeniably edited by humans (predominantly male) means its authenticity is questionable at best.

Do you believe your God is full of love for all mankind? Do you believe that this same God would punish a person in eternal damnation or purgatory after having lived a good life and developing their intellect over their whole life and coming to a reasoned decision not to believe in a God?
You know, thats what so sad about non believers. They go through life "developing there intellect" when the easiest thing to "develop" is right there in front of there face but they choose the ignore it. What a waste of GOD's given talents to us.

 

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