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Poll

Should we invade Pakistan if its government falls?

Yes, and America should also withdraw from Iraq.9%9% - 4
Yes, but America should keep some troops in Iraq too.12%12% - 5
No, but America should stay in Iraq until it is stable.34%34% - 14
No, and America should withdraw from Iraq.39%39% - 16
Other (explain)4%4% - 2
Total: 41
2007-07-05 17:41:46
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina
Well, guys, what do you think?

I'm normally an isolationist, but Pakistan has always struck me as the real source of our terror problems (aside from Saudi Arabia).  Iraq seems like a civil war that isn't relevant to us, and Iran seems shady and insolent, but no real threat to us.

Pakistan is the country that really bothers me because it harbors Al Quida and the Taliban -- the two groups we originally fought in the War on Terror.  Osama is supposedly somewhere in Pakistan, and if we kill him, we'll at least have part of the battle completed in a symbolic way.

We make a big deal out of Iran developing nukes, but Pakistan already has them, and I'd hate to see what would happen if extremists took over that country and got ahold of them.

How do you guys feel?
2007-07-05 18:01:36
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

If an extremist regime came to power in Pakistan, you wouldn't want to try to invade - they might start nuking all sorts of stuff - they're supposed to have between 30 and 90 nukes, they could do soooooooo much damage it's unthinkable.

If they came to power it would be too late to do anything about it. That's the problem with nukes.

It's a worrying thought. Yet another reason why I believe only UN permanent security council members should be allowed nukes. The fewer of them the better.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-07-05 18:03:04)

2007-07-05 18:09:31
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Bertster7 wrote:

If an extremist regime came to power in Pakistan, you wouldn't want to try to invade - they might start nuking all sorts of stuff - they're supposed to have between 30 and 90 nukes, they could do soooooooo much damage it's unthinkable.

If they came to power it would be too late to do anything about it. That's the problem with nukes.

It's a worrying thought. Yet another reason why I believe only UN permanent security council members should be allowed nukes. The fewer of them the better.
Good points...  Maybe we should pre-emptively invade if it looks like the government is about to fall.

I know pre-emption has failed miserably with Iraq, but I get the feeling it may become our best option with Pakistan if Musharraf's government weakens further.
2007-07-05 18:10:16
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

Elections coming up there this year......


(suposedly)

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-07-05 18:10:31)

2007-07-05 18:10:52
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Bertster7 wrote:

Elections coming up there this year......


(suposedly)
Do you think they'll elect an extremist?
2007-07-05 18:12:23
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

I fucking hope not.
2007-07-05 18:13:31
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Bertster7 wrote:

I fucking hope not.
Same here...  I really don't want to get caught up in another war, but this is part of the War on Terror that I actually support.  Pakistan seems like a legitimate threat, unlike Iraq and Iran.
2007-07-05 18:15:10
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6566|San Diego, CA, USA
We cannot allow Pakistan to fall to the Taliban.  Imagine Afghanistan but with nukes.  I would think the Indians would have something to say about that.
2007-07-05 18:17:20
T1g3r217
Perpetual
+124|6439|My room

Harmor wrote:

We cannot allow Pakistan to fall to the Taliban.  Imagine Afghanistan but with nukes.  I would think the Indians would have something to say about that.
Damn right we would.
2007-07-05 18:17:49
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

Musharraf has been being quite helpful lately, letting US troops hunt down terrorists and terror camps in Pakistan. His regime do seem to have been trying a bit.

I think focusing on shutting down the training camps and stuff in Pakistan, should be a big focus for NATO troops in Afghanistan and more troops should be moved from Iraq to help out.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-07-05 18:18:24)

2007-07-05 18:19:25
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Bertster7 wrote:

Musharraf has been being quite helpful lately, letting US troops hunt down terrorists and terror camps in Pakistan. His regime do seem to have been trying a bit.

I think focusing on shutting down the training camps and stuff in Pakistan, should be a big focus for NATO troops in Afghanistan and more troops should be moved from Iraq to help out.
Agreed...
2007-07-05 18:28:27
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6606|United States of America

Bertster7 wrote:

Musharraf has been being quite helpful lately, letting US troops hunt down terrorists and terror camps in Pakistan. His regime do seem to have been trying a bit.

I think focusing on shutting down the training camps and stuff in Pakistan, should be a big focus for NATO troops in Afghanistan and more troops should be moved from Iraq to help out.
I am not disagreeing or saying your wrong but I didn't think Pakistans government was allowing U.S. or N.A.T.O. troops in pakistani territory.  I thought the U.S. And N.A.T.O. were only allowed to go the the Afganistan/Pakistan border.  This is great news to me if the troops have been able to go in to some of these remote villages along the border.
2007-07-05 18:31:26
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6618|132 and Bush

Bertster7 wrote:

Musharraf has been being quite helpful lately, letting US troops hunt down terrorists and terror camps in Pakistan. His regime do seem to have been trying a bit.

I think focusing on shutting down the training camps and stuff in Pakistan, should be a big focus for NATO troops in Afghanistan and more troops should be moved from Iraq to help out.
Yep, it a recent policy shift.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79284
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-07-05 18:33:29
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6606|United States of America

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Musharraf has been being quite helpful lately, letting US troops hunt down terrorists and terror camps in Pakistan. His regime do seem to have been trying a bit.

I think focusing on shutting down the training camps and stuff in Pakistan, should be a big focus for NATO troops in Afghanistan and more troops should be moved from Iraq to help out.
Yep, it a recent policy shift.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79284
Thanks for the link +1
2007-07-05 23:12:06
BVC
Member
+325|6713
We've never had a problem with Pakistan, always got on well with them.  Until all this middle eastern bullshit got kicked into high gear, the only thing in Pakistan that ever threatened us was their fast bowlers!
2007-07-05 23:16:10
agent146
Member
+127|6404|Jesus Land aka Canada
first of all WHY THE HELL do We care about the  Pakistans? huh? Let the indians handle it and the pakistans. its not our "backyard" same goes for North Korean; let the japanese and russians panic and fix/fight with their "neighbours. "
2007-07-06 04:17:57
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

Pubic wrote:

We've never had a problem with Pakistan, always got on well with them.  Until all this middle eastern bullshit got kicked into high gear, the only thing in Pakistan that ever threatened us was their fast bowlers!
No, we haven't. Unfortunately Pakistan has a problem with Islamic extremists. We are discussing the potential problems that could arise if an extremist Islamic regime came to power there, which will hopefully never happen.
2007-07-06 04:22:17
Noobeater
Northern numpty
+194|6464|Boulder, CO
Well the UK's already 6% understaffed in our military so we can't really spare any troopa anyway.
2007-07-06 04:27:23
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6599|SE London

Noobeater wrote:

Well the UK's already 6% understaffed in our military so we can't really spare any troopa anyway.
We already have troops in Afghanistan on the border with Pakistan. Army chiefs have also suggested troops withdrawn from Iraq could do more good there than in Iraq.
2007-07-06 09:08:04
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6404

agent146 wrote:

first of all WHY THE HELL do We care about the  Pakistans? huh? Let the indians handle it and the pakistans. its not our "backyard" same goes for North Korean; let the japanese and russians panic and fix/fight with their "neighbours. "
Was this a serious post?
2007-07-06 09:37:11
Protecus
Prophet of Certain Certainties
+28|6539

agent146 wrote:

first of all WHY THE HELL do We care about the  Pakistans? huh? Let the indians handle it and the pakistans. its not our "backyard" same goes for North Korean; let the japanese and russians panic and fix/fight with their "neighbours. "
You're absolutley right. Why should we care about a nuclear power falling to the people who hate us without remorse.

We threw a fit when Saddam tried to by one nuclear bomb. Now the far right religious extremists have the ability to essentially buy the factory.

But you're right. No worries at all...
2007-07-06 09:53:22
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6638|London, England
If the government falls i'd expect a huge Indian invasion, they have  alot of manpower that's not tied up anywhere as much as the US, although that would probably tick them off to let the nukes fly. Although any invasion would set them off, infact, even no invasion would. We're screwed either way.

Here's hoping that if the current leader sees the end of his power coming, he does something so they don't get their hands on the nukes. Unlikely though.

I agree that Pakistan is the biggest threat to the world, not Iran or Iraq.

EDIT: It's already started:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6277000.stm

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-07-06 09:55:12)

2007-07-06 10:00:42
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6664|Peoria
Why bother, India will take care of it.
2007-07-06 10:06:59
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6649|949

I would be more worried about certain elements (namely their security service) in Pakistan than the actual government.  Extremist elements there almost certainly would not be able to garner enough support to control the government.  The government in Pakistan has largely been very organized and moderate - they did elect a woman as president TWICE.  I would be more worried about Musharraf pandering to the extremist elements to stay in power than the void created by his absence.

Pakistan has largely been open to "western style" economic shifts and political atmosphere.  The country as a whole is not very fundamentalist or extreme, its just certain elements there.  I equate Pakistan with countries like Nigeria or Yemen or China - highly industrialized cities with cosmopolitan, western type of lifestyle mixed in with extremely poor outlying areas.  The fact of the matter is, we have destroyed much of Al-Qaeda's training grounds in Afghanistan, and there really isn't any solid base for them to set up terrorist operations.  Groups have splintered off, without a doubt (AQ-I and AQ in Magreb) but as far as the organization is concerned, Al Qaeda cannot support the type of global war the leaders envisioned on its own (is Osama even directly controlling Al Qaeda anymore?  That is a legitimate question security analysts are asking).  The best we can do in Pakistan is promote openness and diplomatic dialogue to assure both the American people and Pakistanis peace is in the best interest of both nations.

Instead of any type of military action, I would support our country (and others Pakistan is reliant upon) pressuring the top levels of government to reign in the ISI (Pakistani intelligence services) and promote bilateral intelligence incursions (much like what we do with Jordan/Saudi/Yemeni) to help capture terrorists.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-07-06 10:09:09)

2007-07-06 10:10:38
Larkin
Banned
+22|6533|West Yorkshire, England

Elamdri wrote:

Why bother, India will take care of it.
Agree. Besides USA has proven itself to be useless against guerilla tactics...which would undoubtedly ensue from their invading Pakistan. Maybe Russia would try and take it too.

 

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