And everyone else acts as though the Holocaust was the worst genocide in human history
Well, that's most likely purely because its the one massacre that's most discussed and reknown -- the most covered.
And yet you probably wouldn't give a shit if someone had a reference to Saddam Hussein or Josef Stalin in their name.Xietsu wrote:
Yeah, read the third post I've made on the fifth page and maybe you'll understand why some people give a hoot. You act as though it's bad to pay your respects and recognize the severity of occurrence by not mocking it.messfeeder wrote:
Why do you freakin' care? I could understand if they made some comment in-game, but trying to get someone's account deleted b/c of their name is just stupid.CL_Crusader wrote:
Some day ago I saw a guy named "...Fuehrer..." on a public server and so I started a little research on inapropriate and racist Nicknames in battlefield 2. Here are some of the most disturbing results:
--------Nichname----------][------------Explanation-------------------------------------------------
[r.e.i.c.h.]Fuehrer r.e.i.c.h. --> 3rd Reich combined with fuehrer
=0=_Der_Fuehrer_=0= obvious
adolf88 since adolf is a regular name, it wouldnt be inapropriate. but combined with 88
(8 = 8th Character in alphabeth = H; so if you write 88 you get HH which is a
common shortcut for "Heil Hitler" which would be translated "Hail Hitler") 88 is often
used by neonazis since the use of such shortcuts isnt prohibited by law while using
Heil Hitler is
-=SS=-=Hitler=-=SS=- SS = Schutzstaffel ---> A special elite division in WW2. used by Hitler to monitor
the german citizens
-=A.HITLER|rusKoPf|-
-88-hitler 88 again this time in combination with "hitler"
|H=H|SCHUTZSTAFFEL Now here weve got the HH shortcut ive talked about before
Schutzstaffel_88 88 combined with SS
Waffen-SchutzStaffel The "Waffen-Schutzstaffel" was a division of the original SS
Waffen-SS-(GER) again Waffen-Schutzstaffel" with added "Germany" shortcut
I don't exactly now if these accounts already are deleted or not, but it is simply a shame that people are using these nicks in public.
The main reason I've made this topic is to show the reader that its alerting how uncarefull nazis can be without risking anything.
Unfortunatly I dont now the legal situation in any noneuropean countries, but in my native country and most other european countries promoting stuff with neonazi content is a crime. At least our laws state that.
Also i would appreciate it when you kick players with above or similiar names if youre an admin on a server, and give notice to other players and start a kickvote if youre a player on an server.
Granted, but I still feel that it's stupid to say what people can and can't make jokes about. If you don't like the joke, stop talking to the person.
I can understand the names containing SS but not the ones containing Hitler. The man, and you have to admit, was VERY charismatic. For Christ's sake, he uprooted Germany single-handedly from the depression that resulted from the Treaty of Versailles and turned it into a stable country again. That is one hell of an idol. Obviously what he did to the Jewish population was bad, but maybe these people simply admire him for what he did with the country 60 years ago. What I'm proposing is a little far-fetched though.CL_Crusader wrote:
Some day ago I saw a guy named "...Fuehrer..." on a public server and so I started a little research on inapropriate and racist Nicknames in battlefield 2. Here are some of the most disturbing results:
--------Nichname----------][------------Explanation-------------------------------------------------
[r.e.i.c.h.]Fuehrer r.e.i.c.h. --> 3rd Reich combined with fuehrer
=0=_Der_Fuehrer_=0= obvious
adolf88 since adolf is a regular name, it wouldnt be inapropriate. but combined with 88
(8 = 8th Character in alphabeth = H; so if you write 88 you get HH which is a
common shortcut for "Heil Hitler" which would be translated "Hail Hitler") 88 is often
used by neonazis since the use of such shortcuts isnt prohibited by law while using
Heil Hitler is
-=SS=-=Hitler=-=SS=- SS = Schutzstaffel ---> A special elite division in WW2. used by Hitler to monitor
the german citizens
-=A.HITLER|rusKoPf|-
-88-hitler 88 again this time in combination with "hitler"
|H=H|SCHUTZSTAFFEL Now here weve got the HH shortcut ive talked about before
Schutzstaffel_88 88 combined with SS
Waffen-SchutzStaffel The "Waffen-Schutzstaffel" was a division of the original SS
Waffen-SS-(GER) again Waffen-Schutzstaffel" with added "Germany" shortcut
I don't exactly now if these accounts already are deleted or not, but it is simply a shame that people are using these nicks in public.
The main reason I've made this topic is to show the reader that its alerting how uncarefull nazis can be without risking anything.
Unfortunatly I dont now the legal situation in any noneuropean countries, but in my native country and most other european countries promoting stuff with neonazi content is a crime. At least our laws state that.
Also i would appreciate it when you kick players with above or similiar names if youre an admin on a server, and give notice to other players and start a kickvote if youre a player on an server.
Last edited by TheCanadianTerrorist (2006-06-17 23:54:18)
The differing factor is that the Holocaust was a purposeful victimization of a select group of peoples, whereas the atrocities committed under Saddam Hussein and Josef Stalin are an example of the failures and brutalities of a totalitarian government.messfeeder wrote:
And yet you probably wouldn't give a shit if someone had a reference to Saddam Hussein or Josef Stalin in their name.Xietsu wrote:
Yeah, read the third post I've made on the fifth page and maybe you'll understand why some people give a hoot. You act as though it's bad to pay your respects and recognize the severity of occurrence by not mocking it.messfeeder wrote:
Why do you freakin' care? I could understand if they made some comment in-game, but trying to get someone's account deleted b/c of their name is just stupid.
That is what the code of morals does. Are you saying you're against ethics? LoL. I know you aren't, but still. I'm against the authoritarian controlling of what one has to say, but it merely substantiates a lesser view of those holding such positions. That's all my position is -- if you disrespect subjects undeserving of such, then what grounds do I have to respect you?Bubbalo wrote:
Granted, but I still feel that it's stupid to say what people can and can't make jokes about. If you don't like the joke, stop talking to the person.
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-18 00:08:37)
I posted about this when I first started playing.
I'm no angel, but I don't get it when people think some of these names are a joke.
The worst I've come across? Someone had a username of -=InternetPedofile=- Yeah, I TK'd his butt till I got kicked! I couldn't believe no one else on the server thought anything of it. Very disturbing.
I'm no angel, but I don't get it when people think some of these names are a joke.
The worst I've come across? Someone had a username of -=InternetPedofile=- Yeah, I TK'd his butt till I got kicked! I couldn't believe no one else on the server thought anything of it. Very disturbing.
I have a tag that is in obvious reference to the SS. does this make me a Nazi.. No. Just because someone may have a name that references something about the third Reich doesn't make them a bad person. I'm sure that some of us out there are fanatics and are using their gaming tags as a direct personification of their beliefs, but i do not. I have taking alot of flak for my name here on the forums and sometimes in game. But i can whole heartedly say i am not a Nazi nor do i condone the actions of the third Reich and select divisions of the Waffen SS. The reason i have this name is because i am a history enthusiast. Not only do i constantly read every book or article that i can get my hands on about WW2 i am also a WW2 reenactor (both Russian and German), i chose this name because it was something that i found interesting and controversial, not because of my political views. To make the generalization that everyone who has a name that contains Nazi reference or is offensive because of its contents is simply ridiculous.
Last edited by <SS>SonderKommando (2006-06-18 00:23:26)
When reading through the replies posted on the initial message of CL_Crusader I noticed that most are 'colored' based on the geographical location of the poster. Most of the gamers playing BF2 are from a generation that has never experienced the terror of war (surely not WW2) and only heard of it in history class. We cannot change history, only learn form it and try to avoid it happening again in the future.
Impressions are based on your own (or group) experience.
If you kill one person, you're a murderer. Kill five and you're a serial killer. But when you kill thousands, you're a conqueror (eventually, those who win the war will be hero's and those who lost are criminals, independent of their initial good idea's and goals)
Alot of people having a nickname refering to the SS, hitler,...etc did most probably not choose that one because they want to be associated with them in a real world (cruelty), but merely to reflect their reputation as warlord, tacticus,...in a virtual world (though some will be neozai's or just totally ignorant)
In Europe, and especially the countries that were victims in WW1 and WW2 there is a limit on the freedom of speech as known in th US, surely for that kind of topics. In some cases it's even a crime.
CL_Crusader is correct in stating that neonazism and racism is getting new ground in Europe; we recently had a shooting of 'colored' people in Belgium too. The shooter was only 18 and related to neonazism. Same happened in the Netherlands,...
We can't deny these facts, nor the crimes from WW1&2, but we may not judge the people blindly for the nickname they have choosen, maybe just point out that it can be offensive.
A (nick)name in one part of the world may be offensive and intolerable, while in another part of the world it might be cool.
Impressions are based on your own (or group) experience.
If you kill one person, you're a murderer. Kill five and you're a serial killer. But when you kill thousands, you're a conqueror (eventually, those who win the war will be hero's and those who lost are criminals, independent of their initial good idea's and goals)
Alot of people having a nickname refering to the SS, hitler,...etc did most probably not choose that one because they want to be associated with them in a real world (cruelty), but merely to reflect their reputation as warlord, tacticus,...in a virtual world (though some will be neozai's or just totally ignorant)
In Europe, and especially the countries that were victims in WW1 and WW2 there is a limit on the freedom of speech as known in th US, surely for that kind of topics. In some cases it's even a crime.
CL_Crusader is correct in stating that neonazism and racism is getting new ground in Europe; we recently had a shooting of 'colored' people in Belgium too. The shooter was only 18 and related to neonazism. Same happened in the Netherlands,...
We can't deny these facts, nor the crimes from WW1&2, but we may not judge the people blindly for the nickname they have choosen, maybe just point out that it can be offensive.
A (nick)name in one part of the world may be offensive and intolerable, while in another part of the world it might be cool.
Last edited by X3M*Selkie (2006-07-09 00:55:06)
George Carlin said it best. A comedians job is to find the line, then step over it. *shrug*
hes the man
its a game please don't pay any attention theses names
Uh, no. Saddam Husseins worst crimes were against the nomadic Kurds. Stalin sent the whole population of one of the USSR nations (forget which) to Siberia. The difference is those two haven't been able to get their name in the history books.Xietsu wrote:
The differing factor is that the Holocaust was a purposeful victimization of a select group of peoples, whereas the atrocities committed under Saddam Hussein and Josef Stalin are an example of the failures and brutalities of a totalitarian government.
Do you not understand that doing something just to be "controversial" is another form of mockery? Clearly, with such a move, you've made a departure from the type of earnest treatment that such an influential event demands.<SS>SonderKommando wrote:
I have a tag that is in obvious reference to the SS. does this make me a Nazi.. No. Just because someone may have a name that references something about the third Reich doesn't make them a bad person. I'm sure that some of us out there are fanatics and are using their gaming tags as a direct personification of their beliefs, but i do not. I have taking alot of flak for my name here on the forums and sometimes in game. But i can whole heartedly say i am not a Nazi nor do i condone the actions of the third Reich and select divisions of the Waffen SS. The reason i have this name is because i am a history enthusiast. Not only do i constantly read every book or article that i can get my hands on about WW2 i am also a WW2 reenactor (both Russian and German), i chose this name because it was something that i found interesting and controversial, not because of my political views. To make the generalization that everyone who has a name that contains Nazi reference or is offensive because of its contents is simply ridiculous.
Oi', my mistake Bubbalo.Bubbalo wrote:
Uh, no. Saddam Husseins worst crimes were against the nomadic Kurds. Stalin sent the whole population of one of the USSR nations (forget which) to Siberia. The difference is those two haven't been able to get their name in the history books.
So, all you people who say freedom of speech applies when choosing a nick, what about these (real) player names?:
-=SD=-Nigger_Killer
(88)Nigga_Killa
**FAT-NIGGA-MUM**
-=F.U=-Nigga
--BURN=ALL=JEWS11
BURN_JEW_BURN
BurnInHellJews
burnjews
Burnt-Jew
-Kill-The-muslims
a_muslim_terrorist
100%anti-muslim
killallmuslim
killdamuslims
killmuslims
KillOnlyMuslims
Killthemuslim
killmuslimsisfun
KillMuslimNow
Killallmuslims67868
i_burn_jews
i/kill/americans
I think there are obvious limits to free speech (due to rule of law) and it's a shame we seem to have several people posting on this thread who don't know where they are.
-=SD=-Nigger_Killer
(88)Nigga_Killa
**FAT-NIGGA-MUM**
-=F.U=-Nigga
--BURN=ALL=JEWS11
BURN_JEW_BURN
BurnInHellJews
burnjews
Burnt-Jew
-Kill-The-muslims
a_muslim_terrorist
100%anti-muslim
killallmuslim
killdamuslims
killmuslims
KillOnlyMuslims
Killthemuslim
killmuslimsisfun
KillMuslimNow
Killallmuslims67868
i_burn_jews
i/kill/americans
I think there are obvious limits to free speech (due to rule of law) and it's a shame we seem to have several people posting on this thread who don't know where they are.
I disagree. The only limit to free speech ought be inciting violence (as well as outright lieing and whatnot in special cases such as news programs, but that's a little different).
UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
I think there are obvious limits to free speech (due to rule of law) and it's a shame we seem to have several people posting on this thread who don't know where they are.
Bubbalo wrote:
I disagree. The only limit to free speech ought be inciting violence (as well as outright lieing and whatnot in special cases such as news programs, but that's a little different).
Don't you mean you agree? When I say due to rule of law, I mean limited by the various laws which prohibit incitement to various forms of violence and hatred. Specifically, I refer to article 20 of the UN International Covenant onUnOriginalNuttah wrote:
obvious limits to free speech (due to rule of law)
Civil and Political Rights:
Article 20
1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
Freedom of speech means nothing if you pick and choose where and what it applies to. While those names are distasteful to me, I would not object to them being allowed because I know that once you start restricting speech, other civil liberties are sure to be curtailed in the near future.UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
So, all you people who say freedom of speech applies when choosing a nick, what about these (real) player names?:
-=SD=-Nigger_Killer
(88)Nigga_Killa
**FAT-NIGGA-MUM**
-=F.U=-Nigga
--BURN=ALL=JEWS11
BURN_JEW_BURN
BurnInHellJews
burnjews
Burnt-Jew
-Kill-The-muslims
a_muslim_terrorist
100%anti-muslim
killallmuslim
killdamuslims
killmuslims
KillOnlyMuslims
Killthemuslim
killmuslimsisfun
KillMuslimNow
Killallmuslims67868
i_burn_jews
i/kill/americans
I think there are obvious limits to free speech (due to rule of law) and it's a shame we seem to have several people posting on this thread who don't know where they are.
And the civil liberties of the Black, Jewish, Muslim and American people towards whom hatred is directed by these statements are less important than the rights of those who hate them? You would advocate the removal of article 20 of the Covenant?aardfrith wrote:
Freedom of speech means nothing if you pick and choose where and what it applies to. While those names are distasteful to me, I would not object to them being allowed because I know that once you start restricting speech, other civil liberties are sure to be curtailed in the near future.
EDIT:
And these people with the deliberately offensive nicks signed up to the RoE which states:
§2.2 You may not use foul or slanderous language involving race, gender, sexual preference, religion or creed.
Maybe you should state your objection to these limits on free speech to BF2 ranked servers? Free speech applies as much to battlefield as it does on these forums. The rules are whatever the owners specify, however they cannot be more relaxed than the rule of law is where the server is located, or they themselves would be culpable.
Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-06-18 07:01:58)
Sure, but there are two problems:UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
Specifically, I refer to article 20 of the UN International Covenant on
Civil and Political Rights:
Article 20
1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
1) Everyone seems to ignore part 1 anyway
2) None of those actually incite anyone to do anything.
So "killmuslimsisfun" doesn't imply that there is pleasure to be had from killing people of a certain religion? Now, if you logged into a server and there were 63 other people all engaging in simulated violence with names like those in the list, are you saying that there is absolutely no way that those names could create some kind of mental link between hatred of a particular group and violence?Bubbalo wrote:
2) None of those actually incite anyone to do anything.
Inciting to violence would be "go kill muslims because it's fun". It's like the difference between me saying the best solution to Israel would be to level it, which is distasteful and wrong, and going out and nuking Israel.
No it isn't. Nuking Israel would be violence. You talking directly to the ruler of China and saying the best solution would be to level Israel is be incitement to violence, more so if they went ahead with it.Bubbalo wrote:
Inciting to violence would be "go kill muslims because it's fun". It's like the difference between me saying the best solution to Israel would be to level it, which is distasteful and wrong, and going out and nuking Israel.
So if the nick was "killmuslims/itsfun" instead of the grammatically flawed "killmuslimsisfun", that would be unacceptable by your standards?
And don't forget that incitement to discrimination is included, not just to violence.
Indeed, it appears I needed to proof-readUnOriginalNuttah wrote:
No it isn't. Nuking Israel would be violence.
No, because of the context. People have all sorts of crazy names, many of them impossible (cyborgninja springs to mind). If PM Howard said "kill Muslims, it's fun", that would be unacceptable (although granted, it would probably be assumed to be a joke in very bad taste.UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
So if the nick was "killmuslims/itsfun" instead of the grammatically flawed "killmuslimsisfun", that would be unacceptable by your standards?
who cares