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2007-06-04 16:27:45
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6656|949

Charges Dropped Against Gitmo Detainee
Trial was to begin for Canadian, who was 15 when seized in Afghanistan

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19028561/

"GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - A military judge on Monday dismissed terrorism-related charges against a prisoner charged with killing an American soldier in Afghanistan, in a stunning reversal for the Bush administration’s attempts to try Guantanamo detainees in military court."

"The chief of military defense attorneys at Guantanamo Bay, Marine Col. Dwight Sullivan, said the ruling in the case of Canadian detainee Omar Khadr could spell the end of the war-crimes trial system set up last year by Congress and President Bush after the Supreme Court threw out the previous system. The ruling immediately raised questions about whether the U.S. will have to further revise procedures for prosecuting prisoners, leading to major delays."

Yay, more delays!

'Huge' impact predicted
Sullivan said the dismissal of Khadr case has “huge” impact because none of the detainees held at this isolated military base in southeast Cuba has been found to be an “unlawful” enemy combatant.

“It is not just a technicality — it’s the latest demonstration that this newest system just does not work,” Sullivan told journalists. “It is a system of justice that does not comport with American values."

^^^that is Marine Col. Dwight Sullivan, the "chief of military defense attorneys" at Gitmo.

After ~6 years, the Administration still can't get it right...
2007-06-04 16:43:45
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6624|132 and Bush

"This was the latest setback for the Bush government's efforts to put the Guantanamo detainees through some form of judicial process. It was forced to rewrite the rules last year after the
U.S. Supreme Court deemed the old tribunals illegal."


What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.


Congress wrote the law after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down an earlier version of the tribunals established by President George W. Bush to try terrorism suspects at Guantanamo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/ts_ … khadr_dc_3
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-06-04 16:46:58
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6785

Kmarion wrote:

What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.
How can they even stand trial with being brutally beaten and such?
2007-06-04 16:48:01
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6429|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

"This was the latest setback for the Bush government's efforts to put the Guantanamo detainees through some form of judicial process. It was forced to rewrite the rules last year after the
U.S. Supreme Court deemed the old tribunals illegal."


What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.


Congress wrote the law after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down an earlier version of the tribunals established by President George W. Bush to try terrorism suspects at Guantanamo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/ts_ … khadr_dc_3
So, essentially, this is more the fault of the Republican Congress in general rather than Bush.
2007-06-04 16:49:28
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6624|132 and Bush

usmarine2005 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.
How can they even stand trial with being brutally beaten and such?
This might explain the mass suicides. Apparently Jonestown was a result of improper wording also.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-06-04 16:51:04
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6785

Kmarion wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.
How can they even stand trial with being brutally beaten and such?
This might explain the mass suicides. Apparently Jonestown was a result of improper wording also.
Wait...wasn't that guy who wanted to blow up those fuel lines from Guyana?  Think about it....
2007-06-04 16:55:26
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6624|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

"This was the latest setback for the Bush government's efforts to put the Guantanamo detainees through some form of judicial process. It was forced to rewrite the rules last year after the
U.S. Supreme Court deemed the old tribunals illegal."


What! They are trying to put them through the judicial process? If they read these forums they would know that we aren't doing that.


Congress wrote the law after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down an earlier version of the tribunals established by President George W. Bush to try terrorism suspects at Guantanamo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070604/ts_ … khadr_dc_3
So, essentially, this is more the fault of the Republican Congress in general rather than Bush.
It was rewritten last year. So I guess you could say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_C … the_Senate
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-06-04 17:39:51
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6656|949

More-

"Under the new war-crimes trial system, the prosecution has 72 hours to appeal, but the court designated to hear the appeal — known as the court of military commissions review — doesn’t even exist, Sullivan noted."

Sounds like they thought this one out.

"Even as the U.S. military hoped to rev up its prosecutions of Guantanamo detainees — with the Pentagon saying it expects to eventually charge about 80 of the 380 prisoners held at this isolated base — questions lingered about the legitimacy of the process"

Well, at least they are charging 20%+ of the detainees.  I bet they will let the rest go after we win the 'War on Terror'.

Congress wrote the MCA of 2006, Bush signed it, the Pentagon stipulates the terminology, and the Supreme Court will (in my opinion) rule that it is unconstitutional.  Good to know that our Congress/Administration is trying to rewrite our judicial system.

You guys are right though...the blame is on the writers/sponsors/aye-sayers of this bill and the Administration.  Good thing our cantakerous Supreme Court stll has some values.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-04 17:52:52)

2007-06-04 17:44:21
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6798|Noizyland

Those Tribunals at Guantanamo are a joke, they admit evidence that wouldn't be conidered for one second in public or military court.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2007-06-04 17:45:51
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6785

Ty wrote:

they admit evidence that wouldn't be conidered for one second in public or military court.
Yes...because the law is about the truth.  lol
2007-06-04 18:38:52
san4
The Mas
+311|6712|NYC, a place to live
It's a great decision because it distinguishes between enemy combatants and "unlawful" enemy combatants. The legislation congress wrote wisely restricts the military kangaroo court trials to "unlawful" enemy combatants who have done more than just fight against the US on a battlefield.

Did I use the word "wisely" in the same sentence as "congress"?
2007-06-05 01:27:55
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6585

usmarine2005 wrote:

Ty wrote:

they admit evidence that wouldn't be conidered for one second in public or military court.
Yes...because the law is about the truth.  lol
So, instead of fighting for truth and justice you're just going to skip straight to the American way?

Which would be what, exactly?  Declaring all your enemies to be evil child rapists?
2007-06-05 01:42:01
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6698|Canberra, AUS
Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/04/news/gitmo.php
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … refer=home
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld … -headlines
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/05/guantanamo.trials/
and so on and so forth.

Since the whole premise of Guantanamo bay and the military tribunals was that those being held were unlawful enemy combatants, what do you do now that they aren't unlawful?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-06-05 01:47:24
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6579
Gitmo is an abhorration. One of those acquitted was abducted in Afghanistan at the age of FIFTEEN and has been held there, subjected to god knows what, without charge or trial for a quarter of his life!!! Wow. The US really has sold itself down the river.

"If you want to be the good guys, you gotta start acting like the good guys."

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-06-05 01:50:45)

2007-06-05 02:52:29
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6514|Menlo Park, CA
That 15 year old killed a US soldier. . . .

He should get whatever is coming to him. . . .

oh no, the prisoners have to listen to Red Hot Chilli Peppers, get sleep deprived, long hours of interrogation. . . . fuckin' breaks my heart *sarcasm*

I trust you have seen the al-Qaeda booklet on the treatment of prisoners. . . . You fuckin' liberals just dont see the big picture. . . . Just flat out dont get it!!

We ARE the good guys, and we act like it everyday! What has Ireland done for the world recently?? Hmm??

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-06-05 02:52:42)

2007-06-05 03:20:56
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6698|Canberra, AUS

fadedsteve wrote:

That 15 year old killed a US soldier. . . .

He should get whatever is coming to him. . . .

oh no, the prisoners have to listen to Red Hot Chilli Peppers, get sleep deprived, long hours of interrogation. . . . fuckin' breaks my heart *sarcasm*

I trust you have seen the al-Qaeda booklet on the treatment of prisoners. . . . You fuckin' liberals just dont see the big picture. . . . Just flat out dont get it!!

We ARE the good guys, and we act like it everyday! What has Ireland done for the world recently?? Hmm??
Way to dance around the point, AND make peronal attacks!

Not to mention overthetop arrogance, too? 'Oooh, we're the best, you all suck, they all fail!'

Have you incontravertible evidence he killed a US soldier? What happened to the age-old justice ideal of 'innocent until proven guilty'?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-06-05 03:24:15
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6553|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia

fadedsteve wrote:

That 15 year old killed a US soldier. . . .

He should get whatever is coming to him. . . .
I'd barter that he did so in the defence of his homeland from a foreign invader, which I guarantee any American 15 year old would do the same if invaded by a foreign force.

fadedsteve wrote:

oh no, the prisoners have to listen to Red Hot Chilli Peppers, get sleep deprived, long hours of interrogation. . . . fuckin' breaks my heart *sarcasm*
Many of which have been acquitted of the "crimes" that you have tried to charge them with. And I hate to break the news to you Rumsfeld, but sleep deprivation, waterboarding and other methods used to extract information from suspects at Gitmo is torture, torture that is barred by many international conventions which the United States is a signatory to.

fadedsteve wrote:

I trust you have seen the al-Qaeda booklet on the treatment of prisoners. . . . You fuckin' liberals just dont see the big picture. . . . Just flat out dont get it!!

We ARE the good guys, and we act like it everyday! What has Ireland done for the world recently?? Hmm??
I really hate this mentality from defenders of torture, that the US (defenders of the free world and the good guys) can torture people and it's OK because the Islamofascists do it. Just because your enemy commits atrocities, DOES NOT give you Carte Blanche to even approach torture as a viable method of treatment for your enemies.

And as far as "what has Ireland done" (apart from being a shining example of a working peace process, thriving economy and good social system) I can tell you what it hasn't done. It hasn't gone invading sovereign nations and turning a stable country into a freakish hellhole, it hasn't tried to spread it's agenda over it's borders in South America, Africa and the Middle East over the past 60 years and I can tell you that it sure hasn't tortured anyone recently and kept them in isolation without a trial.
2007-06-05 03:45:56
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6788|Dallas

fadedsteve wrote:

That 15 year old killed a US soldier. . . .

He should get whatever is coming to him. . . .

oh no, the prisoners have to listen to Red Hot Chilli Peppers, get sleep deprived, long hours of interrogation. . . . fuckin' breaks my heart *sarcasm*

I trust you have seen the al-Qaeda booklet on the treatment of prisoners. . . . You fuckin' liberals just dont see the big picture. . . . Just flat out dont get it!!

We ARE the good guys, and we act like it everyday! What has Ireland done for the world recently?? Hmm??
You pretty much sum up everything that is wrong with this country, why the world hates us and why I want to move to Australia, every time you speak.
2007-06-05 03:56:21
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6439|Vienna

Everyone in this topic so far deserves a +1 except "fadesteve".
2007-06-05 04:04:48
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6226
Guantanamo Bay has a mediocre selection of exercise machines for the prisoners--certainly worth bitching about all day on the forums instead of the gruesome torture methods of Al Qaeda.

Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt (2007-06-05 04:05:15)

2007-06-05 04:06:24
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6798|Noizyland

People held at Gitmo are rarely convicted. That fifteen year old was never poven to have killed anyone.

I would just like to register my disgust for the argument, "Well Al Quaeda tortures and kills captives worse than us."
So? For someone to be able to judge someone else one must do so with clean hands. The US government accusing Al Quaeda of torture would be more powerful if the US government didn't condone torture anyway. So what if Al Quaeda chop off heads? God knows what happens at Gitmo, whatever it is it seems harsh enough to get  people to commit suicide. It may not be the primitive physical torture that the terrorists so excell in, but to get someone to kill themselves? It has to be a bit heavier than tickling them with feathers I'm sure.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2007-06-05 04:11:52
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6745|Sydney, Australia

Ty wrote:

People held at Gitmo are rarely convicted. That fifteen year old was never poven to have killed anyone.

I would just like to register my disgust for the argument, "Well Al Quaeda tortures and kills captives worse than us."
So? For someone to be able to judge someone else one must do so with clean hands. The US government accusing Al Quaeda of torture would be more powerful if the US government didn't condone torture anyway. So what if Al Quaeda chop off heads? God knows what happens at Gitmo, whatever it is it seems harsh enough to get  people to commit suicide. It may not be the primitive physical torture that the terrorists so excell in, but to get someone to kill themselves? It has to be a bit heavier than tickling them with feathers I'm sure.
I read earlier today (ill get the source in a min) that only 80 of the 380 Gitmo detainees will be charged. To keep the rest of them in a state of limbo, a state of non-existence, is an utter disgrace.


Mcminty.
2007-06-05 04:12:28
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6320|Bloomington Indiana
Fadedsteve does not speak for america...

I agree with cam...again...
we NEED to start acting like the good guys.
so what if al quaeda does something...does that mean we do too??

thats about as logical as trying to defend the American internment of Japanese Americans during ww2 by saying "So? Hitler rounded up people he didnt trust"

good argument guy *sarcasm*
2007-06-05 04:12:54
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6418|The Gem Saloon

Ty wrote:

People held at Gitmo are rarely convicted. That fifteen year old was never poven to have killed anyone.

I would just like to register my disgust for the argument, "Well Al Quaeda tortures and kills captives worse than us."
So? For someone to be able to judge someone else one must do so with clean hands. The US government accusing Al Quaeda of torture would be more powerful if the US government didn't condone torture anyway. So what if Al Quaeda chop off heads? God knows what happens at Gitmo, whatever it is it seems harsh enough to get  people to commit suicide. It may not be the primitive physical torture that the terrorists so excell in, but to get someone to kill themselves? It has to be a bit heavier than tickling them with feathers I'm sure.
i dont know, there are plenty of kids in high school that attempt suicide to escape problems in their social life.
2007-06-05 04:13:47
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6226

Ty wrote:

People held at Gitmo are rarely convicted. That fifteen year old was never poven to have killed anyone.

I would just like to register my disgust for the argument, "Well Al Quaeda tortures and kills captives worse than us."
So? For someone to be able to judge someone else one must do so with clean hands. The US government accusing Al Quaeda of torture would be more powerful if the US government didn't condone torture anyway. So what if Al Quaeda chop off heads? God knows what happens at Gitmo, whatever it is it seems harsh enough to get  people to commit suicide. It may not be the primitive physical torture that the terrorists so excell in, but to get someone to kill themselves? It has to be a bit heavier than tickling them with feathers I'm sure.


Read Kmarion's posts in this thread:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=75449&p=1

Kmarion has been ignored since day one, and it still amazes me. Whenever he shuts down a ludicrous argument, you guys just drop it completely and start a whole new thread on it like his points were never acknowledged.

The selective criticism is also mind-boggling. You guys conveniently ignore the atrocities of Al Qaeda so you can make a stretch to criticize the US (read Kmarion's posts so you can understand this). Don't deny it, many of your "posting careers" are exclusively posts criticizing US policy...all day, every day.

Now we've got someone saying that a user posting on a forum makes him want to move to Australia? Are you guys for real?

Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt (2007-06-05 04:19:45)

 

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