ATG
Banned
+5,233|6871|Global Command
There's a saying here in America; as California goes, so goes the United States.

Many social experiments are tried here first. Among the more noteable there have been the introduction of Ebonics, outcome based education, decriminalization of marijuanna, higher speed limits, open borders, etc.

In California there are over one hundred languages spoken. It's as color blind a society as there ever will be.

People from all over the world flock to our colleges, and as usual, the loudest most uncivil group are the Muslim Stundent Union. They disrupt most Jewish student gatherings with tactics such as displaying cardboard cutouts of AK 47's and shouting down speakers. A letter from the student paper:

"Irvine

    As for the report of the local director of the Council on American Islamic Relations, that his office “has received many calls from students and parents at UCI expressing extreme concern about the safety and privacy of their students on campus,” consider that on its Web site, CAIR has literally been pleading with Muslims to report more instances of abuse and discrimination so that they can match the records of other minority groups, which helps them better play the victimhood game.

    I was at the event at UCI in 2006 sponsored by the Campus Republican Club where hundreds of noisy Muslim students, some waving cardboard AK-47 cutouts, protested and disrupted a program about the “offensive (to them) Danish cartoons.”

    When UCI’s Muslim students stop acting like their Hamas and Hezbollah brethren perhaps we will feel less inclined to view them with distrust, suspicion and hostility.

    They bring this upon themselves.

    A. E. Rowley "
http://epaper.ocregister.com/Repository … QXIwMjEwMA




Logic, Anti-Semitism On Display In UC Irvine Newspaper. Except For the Logic Part.
Sulaiman Arain is a fifth year UC Irvine engineering student, and he just had a letter published in UCI's student newspaper. In this letter, he attempts to do his best impression of what political argumentation looks like:

“The state of Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth.” Is this statement anti-Semitic? Let’s forget for a moment that the term itself has been grossly redefined by Zionists to mean “anti-Jewish” - does the statement imply that all the Jews living in Israel need to be exterminated? Or even that all Jews must forcibly be ousted from the Holy Land? Of course not. The words used are “The state of Israel,” not “Jews” or even “Israelis.” The statement is a less-than-diplomatic way of saying that the state of Israel will cease to exist on the map. That’s all.
Now, to the extent that the Muslim students he's defending were wearing pro-Intifada shirts (read: not peaceful), this is a little bit dishonest. Also a reason it's dishonest: the UCI Muslim Student Union regularly brings in speakers who celebrate Hezbollah's violent attacks on Israelis. One more reason it's dishonest: having Israel get overrun by the so-called refugees - as he clarifies later, all 10 million of them, up to the fifth generation - would result in an anti-Jewish bloodbath. We're talking about the darkest pits of global anti-Semitism, where resentment and hate have served as the basis for what passes for ideology for half a century.

But let's pretend he's telling the truth, and he's only advocating wiping out the Jewish state - and not any particular Jew (because that's exactly how it would happen). It's still anti-Semitic.

(1) When placed in the context of leftist human rights activism, it often coexists with the claim that just about every ethnic group, no matter how trivially distinct from other ethnic groups, deserves their own state. Except the Jews, who don't. So Palestinians, despite being very close to Egyptians or Jordanians, deserve their own state. But Jews, who have been hounded throughout history, do not. That, it seems to us, is anti-Semitic.

(2) Let's assume that all the lies about Israel are true: it is a genocide-implementing, apartheid-enforcing state. By these measures, it's at worst as bad as Serbia or South Africa. And yet - and this is crucial - no one has ever advocated wiping those states off the map. Both the policy of destroying Israel and the viciousness with which it is advocated point to something particularly illogical and ugly - in a word, anti-Semitism.

Oh, and one more thing:

What must happen for the state of Israel to cease to exist on the map is really quite simple: The right of return must be granted to the Palestinians, a people who were forcibly removed from their land, a people whose properties were seized at gunpoint so that the state of Israel... To rightfully allow all 9.5 million Palestinian-Arab refugees and their descendants to return home would mean that Israel, with a population of roughly 6.2 million Jews, would cease to exist as a Jewish state, giving way to a new system under which people can form a government that guarantees basic human rights and dignity to all humans.
The thing about Palestinians guaranteeing basic human rights to Jews as they're overrunning them with 10 million of the most anti-Semitic people on the planet - stupid. The thing about the right of returning meaning the destruction of Israel - unusually honest. Or at least more honest than the Saudis and the Europeans.
And, in the name of free speech we allow the vilest filth and war talk to be spewed on campus. A campus funded by American tax payer monies.
FUCKING RIDICULOUS! I attribute this to a failure of Islam because they are breeding generations of hate filled uncivil people and exporting a frothing at the mouth ideology all over the world. If Islam is a religion of peace this is an example of its failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuCk6BDZSU

Last edited by ATG (2007-06-01 11:26:32)

link52787
Member
+29|6863
Can't play the video, looks like it can't be embedded.

Anyways, it is hard for Muslims to be accepted and tolerated when they are making harder to do that.

I have alot of Muslim friends and they are nice people.  In fact my family are friends with lots of Muslim families.

They are really nice people and they don't agree with what other Muslims think.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,988|6974|949

ATG wrote:

When UCI’s Muslim students stop acting like their Hamas and Hezbollah brethren perhaps we will feel less inclined to view them with distrust, suspicion and hostility.
I've never seen Hamas wave AK-47 cutouts.  Last time I saw a news clip, they were shooting at people with real AK's.  How can you possibly lump these (moronic) protesters in the same catagory as people who kill?  Opposing and protesting is not equal to killing people.

UCI is one of the most diverse campuses in the nation.  I remember reading about this last year.   These people are idiots. 
Why don't we lump the Westboro's with the Quakers and Amish.  Oh yeah, 'cause that's making a ridiculous generalization, that's why.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-01 10:59:27)

topal63
. . .
+533|7060
Link to watch video (it cannot be embeded): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuCk6BDZSU

link52787 wrote:

Can't play the video, looks like it can't be embedded.

Anyways, it is hard for Muslims to be accepted and tolerated when they are making harder to do that.

I have alot of Muslim friends and they are nice people.  In fact my family are friends with lots of Muslim families.

They are really nice people and they don't agree with what other Muslims think.
No doubt - extremely friendly - one on one; or in small groups. Under peer pressure - there is definite internal religious bigotry at play. To be a Muslim in a group is often equal to being a god-ridden bigot (but this is also true of Muslim-bigot's brothers: Christian-religious group-think bigots and the origin of the idea within little brother bigot : Judaism).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-06-01 11:10:32)

G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6968|Sea to globally-cooled sea
I'm sorry, but if 1st graders get arrested for drawing pictures of guns with their Jumbo Crayons, then those clowns should get arrested for their cardboard cutouts.  They are trying to incite fear.
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6988|Peoria
I wish Hamas would wave AK-47 cutouts...

That would make the job much easier.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6963|London, England
Surprised there wasn't anyone around to show them first hand what a real AK47 looks like.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6861|Πάϊ
(1) When placed in the context of leftist human rights activism, it often coexists with the claim that just about every ethnic group, no matter how trivially distinct from other ethnic groups, deserves their own state. Except the Jews, who don't. So Palestinians, despite being very close to Egyptians or Jordanians, deserve their own state. But Jews, who have been hounded throughout history, do not. That, it seems to us, is anti-Semitic.
Oh they can have one. Just not there. And what the fuck does Jordan and Egypt have to do with it? It is always insinuated that the Palestinians have some form of bond with their neighbors that would allow them to live together somehow. That is not the issue. The fact remains that the Palestinians were robbed of their land. Advocating that they could be sent to Egypt or Jordan and all would be well is just preposterous.
(2) Let's assume that all the lies about Israel are true: it is a genocide-implementing, apartheid-enforcing state. By these measures, it's at worst as bad as Serbia or South Africa. And yet - and this is crucial - no one has ever advocated wiping those states off the map. Both the policy of destroying Israel and the viciousness with which it is advocated point to something particularly illogical and ugly - in a word, anti-Semitism.
Both Serbia and SA are different cases and are not to be mixed into this. First of all, the atrocities committed by the Serbian militia were rightfully met by force, as should be the case in Israel (of course this will never happen). Secondly, whatever the Serbs did, they did it within Serbia. And lets not talk about the UCK and the atrocities they commited, because they were never punished. Instead the UCK now carries expensive weaponry all courtesy of the west. As for SA, well, same goes there. Who would be expected to call for the wiping off the map of the country?


What must happen for the state of Israel to cease to exist on the map is really quite simple: The right of return must be granted to the Palestinians, a people who were forcibly removed from their land, a people whose properties were seized at gunpoint so that the state of Israel... To rightfully allow all 9.5 million Palestinian-Arab refugees and their descendants to return home would mean that Israel, with a population of roughly 6.2 million Jews, would cease to exist as a Jewish state, giving way to a new system under which people can form a government that guarantees basic human rights and dignity to all humans.
The thing about Palestinians guaranteeing basic human rights to Jews as they're overrunning them with 10 million of the most anti-Semitic people (with good reason to be)on the planet - stupid. The thing about the right of returning meaning the destruction of Israel - unusually honest. Or at least more honest than the Saudis and the Europeans.
Now how stupid is that. Since the underlined part is true, the direction things should be moving to should be to find a solution so that these people might be given back what they lost and at the same time make the area viable for everyone. Instead we are only supposed to worry about the Israelis. How the fuck does that work...
ƒ³
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6871|Global Command
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6996

Hooray California! I've always known we're ahead of the times. Every time I travel back to the South to see relatives, it's like I'm going back to the 90s! Strange.

Anyway, I definitely agree that these Islamic radicals (especially the students) have got to change if they ever want to see peace in the Middle East. Here at UCLA, the Jewish Student Union has tried setting up programs and inviting guest speakers, and have asked Islamic student groups and Palestinian student groups to co-sponsor with them, as an act of peace or a truce, yet they always decline and say they could never associate themselves or go near the Jewish students. They're so stubborn and seem to think that it's either their way or the highway.

Also, note that I'm talking about the radicals. I know there are peaceful, intelligent, Muslims out there with common sense and respect for others, but it's these hardcore Islamists that make the biggest deals out of every little thing and are giving themselves a bad name. If only everyone could just be humble about their beliefs and respect those of others, we could all get along.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,988|6974|949

We don't blame all of Christianity for actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.  For the most part, Christians here can see that they (WBC) have some sort of deluded interpretation of Christianity.  There is little media coverage of Baptist Pastors coming out and denouncing them (WBC), mostly because I think the American public/Christians realize this. 

So why is there a double standard when radical, moronic Muslims shout the same type of hate-filled rhetoric?  If certain radical Muslims deliver inflammatory statements, it is an example of "the failure of Islam."  People, especially in America, use these radical, fundamental, hate-filled statements and parade them about as the "norm" in Muslim/Islam society, then complain and say that moderates do nothing to denounce them.

I think it is xenophobia, plain and simple.  Regardless of the reason, there is a clear double standard, and I think it is ridiculous.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-01 11:56:56)

mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6996

I think it would help Islam out a lot, though, if members did come out and denounce these radicals and tell the world that not all Muslims are like that.

Also, the WBC isn't going around suicide bombing and killing other people. All they do is stand around and protest. They come off as silly and a few fries short of a happy meal. They seem insane, but in a nice, harmless kind of way, and we can just ignore them.
The extreme Muslims, on the other hand, are out blowing themselves up in the name of Allah, and this causes everyone else to take them much more seriously. They are also insane, but in the serious, demented serial killer kind of way, so we've got to keep our eyes out for them.

Last edited by mtb0minime (2007-06-01 12:04:49)

topal63
. . .
+533|7060

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

We don't blame all of Christianity for actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.  For the most part, Christians here can see that they (WBC) have some sort of deluded interpretation of Christianity.  There is little media coverage of Baptist Pastors coming out and denouncing them (WBC), mostly because I think the American public/Christians realize this. 

So why is there a double standard when radical, moronic Muslims shout the same type of hate-filled rhetoric?  If certain radical Muslims deliver inflammatory statements, it is an example of "the failure of Islam."  People, especially in America, use these radical, fundamental, hate-filled statements and parade them about as the "norm" in Muslim/Islam society, then complain and say that moderates do nothing to denounce them.

I think it is xenophobia, plain and simple.  Regardless of the reason, there is a clear double standard, and I think it is ridiculous.
I believe the xenophobia is inherent to the dogmatic constructs-concepts found within these religions.

As Jospeph Campbell put it (in "The Hero with a Thousand Faces") I paraphrase from memory:
The anthropmorhic image of God is of a secondary nature - the personality of whatever deity is worshiped is common to most religious traditions of the world. In the: Christian, Muslim and Judaic tradition(s) however, the personality (image) of the divinity is taught to be final (not secondary, but rather primary and final). This makes it difficult for members of these traditions to understand how to go beyond the limitations of their own anthropomorphic divine image of God. The result has been, at once, a general obfuscation of the symbols, and a god-ridden bigotry such as is unmatched elsewhere in the history of religion.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-06-01 12:21:05)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,988|6974|949

mtb0minime wrote:

I think it would help Islam out a lot, though, if members did come out and denounce these radicals and tell the world that not all Muslims are like that.

Also, the WBC isn't going around suicide bombing and killing other people. All they do is stand around and protest. They come off as silly and a few fries short of a happy meal.
The extreme Muslims, on the other hand, are out blowing themselves up in the name of Allah, and this causes everyone else to take them much more seriously.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/60minutes.htm

On 60 Minutes, Sept. 30, 2001.

Imam Faisal of lower Manhattan: Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam. That's just as absurd as associating Hitler with Christianity, or David Koresh with Christianity. There are always people who will do peculiar things, and think that they are doing things in the name of their religion. But the Koran is... God says in the Koran that they think that they are doing right, but they are doing wrong."

http://www.int-review.org/terr4a.html

Written in 1995

"King Hassan II of Morocco, too, asserts that Islam is not to be confused with Islamic fundamentalism. In an April interview, King Hassan said: "I have yet to see a militant who advocates Islamic fundamentalism for the love of God. Fundamentalists preach their ideology because they consider Islam the elevator to take power. The day I see a fundamentalist who preaches religion for the love of God then I'll say, fine, let's listen. But so far, I haven't heard that."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? … 07/0221201

Written Dec. 7, 2001

"The short documentary film A Tajik Woman by Iranian filmmaker Mehrnaz Saeed-Vafa, is one reflection of a Muslim immigrant woman. In it she reflects on war and revolution, loss of homeland and conflict with fundamentalist Islamic values"

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=052207B

Something more recent, written 5/22/07.

Muslims are not silent in the face of radicalism, extremism, and other ideologies that support terrorism from within the ranks of the Islamic global community, or umma. But Western mainstream media - the MSM - have proven unwilling or incapable of reporting to Western audiences on the personalities embodying the Islamic "counter-jihad," the principles that impel them, or the daily facts of their struggle. When the battle for the mosque is invoked, it is too often done so by commentators who have no idea how this battle shapes up, where its fronts are located, or who represents each trend.

Hits it basically right on the head - The mainstream media doesn't cover it, and people (like you) don't look for it.

Weill here it is for you (everyone).

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-06-01 12:11:20)

mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6996

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Hits it basically right on the head - The mainstream media doesn't cover it, and people (like you) don't look for it.

Weill here it is for you (everyone).
Well that would explain a lot then. I'll definitely look into those. Thanks
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6832|Menlo Park, CA
Typical anti-white, anti-jew black dude spitting muslim hate. . . . .

He is a fucking blow hard. . . . Just like most of the "amir's", and "cleric's". . . .They talk all the shit, and let other people die for them!! They are the biggest cowards among the muslims!!! FUCK HIM! and FUCK RADICAL ISLAM!!

The US military doesnt give a shit what you faggots say, they are going to continue to put a 5.56 in your dome!! That Amir is a fucking bully, and a punk! I hope that little bitch goes to the middle east!! I hope the IDF arrests that muther fucker and really oppresses his ass!!!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-06-01 12:30:27)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,988|6974|949

topal63 wrote:

I believe the xenophobia is inherent to the dogmatic constructs-concepts found within these religions.

As Jospeph Campbell put it (in "The Hero with a Thousand Faces") I paraphrase from memory:
The anthropmorhic image of God is of a secondary nature - the personality of whatever deity is worshiped is common to most religious traditions of the world. In the: Christian, Muslim and Judaic tradition(s) however, the personality (image) of the divinity is taught to be final (not secondary, but rather primary and final). This makes it difficult for members of these traditions to understand how to go beyond the limitations of their own anthropomorphic divine image of God. The result has been, at once, a general obfuscation of the symbols, and a god-ridden bigotry such as is unmatched elsewhere in the history of religion.
I am reminded of something I read some time ago where the author said that to associate an image or face with God is to show a lack of faith, an insecurity in your own belief.

What you just paraphrased reminded me of it, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7004|USA

ATG wrote:

decriminalization of marijuanna
LOmotherfockingL! Not in the DEA's eyes.

Thats all I wanted to address.
topal63
. . .
+533|7060

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

topal63 wrote:

I believe the xenophobia is inherent to the dogmatic constructs-concepts found within these religions.

As Jospeph Campbell put it (in "The Hero with a Thousand Faces") I paraphrase from memory:
The anthropmorhic image of God is of a secondary nature - the personality of whatever deity is worshiped is common to most religious traditions of the world. In the: Christian, Muslim and Judaic tradition(s) however, the personality (image) of the divinity is taught to be final (not secondary, but rather primary and final). This makes it difficult for members of these traditions to understand how to go beyond the limitations of their own anthropomorphic divine image of God. The result has been, at once, a general obfuscation of the symbols, and a god-ridden bigotry such as is unmatched elsewhere in the history of religion.
I am reminded of something I read some time ago where the author said that to associate an image or face with God is to show a lack of faith, an insecurity in your own belief.

What you just paraphrased reminded me of it, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it.
- I am thinking - a Muslim! Since images of God are no-no in that tradition.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,988|6974|949

topal63 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

topal63 wrote:

I believe the xenophobia is inherent to the dogmatic constructs-concepts found within these religions.

As Jospeph Campbell put it (in "The Hero with a Thousand Faces") I paraphrase from memory:
The anthropmorhic image of God is of a secondary nature - the personality of whatever deity is worshiped is common to most religious traditions of the world. In the: Christian, Muslim and Judaic tradition(s) however, the personality (image) of the divinity is taught to be final (not secondary, but rather primary and final). This makes it difficult for members of these traditions to understand how to go beyond the limitations of their own anthropomorphic divine image of God. The result has been, at once, a general obfuscation of the symbols, and a god-ridden bigotry such as is unmatched elsewhere in the history of religion.
I am reminded of something I read some time ago where the author said that to associate an image or face with God is to show a lack of faith, an insecurity in your own belief.

What you just paraphrased reminded me of it, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it.
- I am thinking - a Muslim! Since images of God are no-no in that tradition.
It just came to me - Alan Watts.
topal63
. . .
+533|7060

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

topal63 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I am reminded of something I read some time ago where the author said that to associate an image or face with God is to show a lack of faith, an insecurity in your own belief.

What you just paraphrased reminded me of it, but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it.
- I am thinking - a Muslim! Since images of God are a no-no in that tradition.
It just came to me - Alan Watts.
That would make sense - it in some form - as an idea of God is found within the eastern mythical religious traditions. There God (the gods) are not really personal. They are impersonal images of the forces of nature, ground of being, etc. In the (Hindu) Vedic philosophical-religious tradition (out of which Buddhism came) the image of God (gods) are secondary. They are symbolic representations of the invisible forces that support the visible world. Whatever is manifest in the world - is dependent upon that which in not manifest in the world (that which cannot be seen). The images of Gods are therefore not final - as actual transcendence is represented by that which is beyond all forms of representation; beyond all names; beyond all thought (this is the primary reason for the image of God: the knowledge of transcendence beyond. The secondary-reason [an image of God] is there to point you towards the primary concept: transcendence).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-06-01 14:14:44)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6871|Global Command
All links saying how great Islam is aside, Jewish students are being driven out of UCI by rabid militant Muslim students.

That make you guys feel good?
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6545

ATG wrote:

All links saying how great Islam is aside, Jewish students are being driven out of UCI by rabid militant Muslim students.

That make you guys feel good?
As long as it's bad news for the US or Israel, of course it does. Only on this forum will you get labeled as closed-minded and racist for criticizing someone who just blew himself up in a crowded market.
topal63
. . .
+533|7060

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:

ATG wrote:

All links saying how great Islam is aside, Jewish students are being driven out of UCI by rabid militant Muslim students.

That make you guys feel good?
As long as it's bad news for the US or Israel, of course it does. Only on this forum will you get labeled as closed-minded and racist for criticizing someone who just blew himself up in a crowded market.
And whom was it that did that? Which UCI Muslim student was it? Or did I miss something on the news.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6871|Global Command
Let's not jump to ridiculous conclusions now.

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