Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6617|Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Prepare for some reading....

as we all know in the united states, marijuana is illegal and alcohol is legal. why is that? its not because alcohol is better for you than marijuana is, its that most people cant "make" alcohol. now some people(my dad rofl) have stills, and make moonshine and other corn/sugar/wheat alcohol, but ANYONE with a google video guide can make marijuana.

i, personaly, believe that the only reason marijuana is illegal is because the US government cannot tax it as it can tax other things, like alcohol and cigarettes(who here has made a cigarette?!). its things like that that make me disregard the facts and other things that people have told me about marijuana.

here are the facts:

Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits.

Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

Myth: Marijuana Kills Brain Cells. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

Fact: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

Myth: Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome. Marijuana makes users passive, apathetic, and uninterested in the future. Students who use marijuana become underachievers and workers who use marijuana become unproductive.

Fact: For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first.

Source

I also saw this which causes me to belive even less that marijuana is as harmful as some people want adolescents to believe. I dont know about ya'll (yes i said it, deal.) but I see no harm in smoking weed/ganja, marijuana, mary-J every once in a while. I, myself, am a weekend smoker, i dont smoke every day, lol, i havent smoked in almost a month now, and i feel no different; i have barely even wanted to smoke recently, except 420, but that was social smoking anyway, i'll never smoke by myself.

Now, time for alcohol.

Short Term Effects
Even at low doses, alcohol significantly impairs the judgment and coordination required to drive a car or operate machinery safely. Low to moderate doses of alcohol can also increase the incidence of a variety of aggressive acts, including domestic violence and child abuse.

   Effects of moderate alcohol intake include dizziness and talkativeness. The immediate effects of a larger amount of alcohol include slurred speech, disturbed sleep, nausea, and vomiting. “Hangovers” are another effect after large amounts of alcohol are consumed — symptoms including headache, nausea, thirst, dizziness, and fatigue.

Long Term Effects
Prolonged, heavy use of alcohol can lead to addiction (alcoholism). Sudden cessation of long term, extensive alcohol intake is likely to produce withdrawal symptoms, including severe anxiety, tremors, hallucinations, and convulsions.

   Long-term effects of consuming large quantities of alcohol can lead to:
      • permanent damage to vital organs
      • several different types of cancer
      • gastrointestinal irritations, such as nausea, diarrhea, and ulcers
      • malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies
      • sexual dysfunctions
      • high blood pressure
      • lowered resistance to disease

   Mothers who drink alcohol during pregnancy may give birth to infants with fetal alcohol syndrome. These infants may suffer from mental retardation and other irreversible physical abnormalities. In addition, research indicates that children of alcoholic parents are at greater risk than other children of becoming alcoholics.

Now... which one is worse? Which should be legal and which shouldnt? Ever riden with someone drunk? scary as shit. Someone high? Not that bad, they drive like 10mph anyway.

Discuss.
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Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6576|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!
I agree on the fact that its not legal because it cant really be taxed.

But you wont ever get my vote for Marijuana legalisation anyway!

Long live the alcohol!
Gen. Payne
Member
+50|6705|USA
Pretty biased source there
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6617|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Gen. Payne wrote:

Pretty biased source there
true, but not like its not true?

the only benefital in the red wine form anyway.
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jsnipy
...
+3,276|6521|...

the goverment would lose out big time on budgets for law enforcement.

Last edited by jsnipy (2007-04-25 14:00:36)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6289|Éire
Alcohol is much worse than marijuana, both in terms of the social and health problems they create IMO.
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6521|...

google "The Emperor's new Clothes"
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6648

I agree with Des, but you and I both know that it's not going to change in the US; at least, not for a long time until the social stigma about it disappears and the legalization lobby becomes much more powerful.
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6617|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

ghettoperson wrote:

I agree with Des, but you and I both know that it's not going to change in the US; at least, not for a long time until the social stigma about it disappears and the legalization lobby becomes much more powerful.
yes, its far too "bad" for the american public, though its only bad because its "illegal", no one really knows, as far as the public is concerned, that it isnt near as bad as alcohol.
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Parker
isteal
+1,452|6393|The Gem Saloon

ghettoperson wrote:

I agree with Des, but you and I both know that it's not going to change in the US; at least, not for a long time until the social stigma about it disappears and the legalization lobby becomes much more powerful.
that and the income that would be lost to the law enforcement community.
no more "war on marijuana" no more over populated prisons or the income from fines etc.
sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|6617|InGerLand
i always wondered why Marijuana is illigal and cigs arn't i mean both are addictave and bad for the brain but one of them won't cause various cancers, emphysema, kill others around you, cause you to loose a lung and spend your life tapped up to an oxygen tank, and significantly shorten your life.
Gen. Payne
Member
+50|6705|USA
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/categor … _marijuana
Just the first article I found from a credible source (American Medical Association) on the opposing side of the argument. I may try to find some more later

Adverse Effects of Marijuana

Nonmedical use of marijuana continues to be problematic in society. Approximately one third of all Americans over 12 years of age have tried marijuana, usually experimenting first during adolescence.4 However, the age distribution of those who use marijuana among the general population declines sharply after age 34, while most medical marijuana users are more than 35 years of age.4 Since 1997, an increasing percentage of young adults aged 18 to 25 years (up from 12.8% to 16.4%) and a decreasing percentage of youths aged 12 to 17 years (down from 9.4% to 7%) perceive smoking marijuana once or twice a week as presenting great risk of harm.186 It is not clear whether these trends have been influenced by the medical marijuana debate.

Most research on the harmful consequences of marijuana use has been conducted in simulated laboratory environments and in individuals who use cannabis for nonmedical purposes. Some of marijuana’s adverse effects differ in experienced versus inexperienced users, and it is not clear to what extent the adverse effects reported in recreational users are applicable to those who use medical marijuana.

Acutely, marijuana increases heart rate, and blood pressure may decrease on standing. Intoxication is associated with impairment of short-term memory, attention, motor skills, reaction time, and the organization and integration of complex information.187,188 Although dependent on the setting, marijuana can cause relaxation and enhance mood. Ordinary sensory experiences may be intensified, with increased talkativeness, perceptual alterations, and distortion in time sense followed by drowsiness and lethargy. These effects appear to be mediated by CB1 receptors because they are diminished by selective antagonism of the CB1 receptor.189 However, some individuals experience acute anxiety or panic reactions, confusion, dysphoria, paranoia, and psychotic symptoms (eg, delusions, hallucinations).188

Heavy users may experience apathy, lowered motivation, and impaired cognitive performance.188 Chronic marijuana use is associated with development of tolerance to some effects and the appearance of withdrawal symptoms (restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, insomnia, sleep disturbances, nausea, cramping) with the onset of abstinence. Depending on the measures and age group studied, 4% to 9% of marijuana users fulfill diagnostic criteria for substance dependence. Although some marijuana users develop dependence, they appear to be less likely to do so than users of alcohol and nicotine, and the abstinence syndrome is less severe.4,188,190 Like other drugs, dependence is more likely to occur in individuals with co-morbid psychiatric conditions.

Data on drug use progression and the view that marijuana is a "gateway" drug pertain to nonmedical use. However, "present data on drug use progression neither support nor refute the suggestions that medical availability [of marijuana] would increase drug abuse."4 Of comparable or greater concern, are potential adverse effects of cannabinoids and marijuana smoke on the immune, respiratory, cardiovascular, and reproductive systems, and the potential for enhancing carcinogenesis."4

In addition to effects attributable to THC, the chronic effects of marijuana smoke are of perhaps greater concern than marijuana’s acute safety profile. Like tobacco, chronic marijuana smoking is associated with lung damage, increased symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and possibly increased risk of lung cancer.

Cannabinoids impair cell-mediated and humoral immunity in rodents and decrease resistance to infection; however, there is no conclusive evidence that consumption of cannabinoids impairs human immune function, and some evidence suggests that cannabinoids exert anti-tumor effects in human cancer cell lines.191,192 Cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptor agonists exert both inflammatory and anti-inflammatory effects and also appear to modulate hematopoiesis and possibly tumor growth.193 Clearly, cannabinoids are immune modulators, but how they regulate various elements of the human immune response is unclear.194 The initial safety trials in HIV-positive patients are encouraging regarding a lack of apparent marijuana-induced immunosuppression, but these were short-term trials.
Only thing that I can give you is that marijuana users MAY be less likely to become dependent than those who use alcohol or nicotine.
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6521|...

sfarrar33 wrote:

i always wondered why Marijuana is illigal and cigs arn't i mean both are addictave and bad for the brain but one of them won't cause various cancers, emphysema, kill others around you, cause you to loose a lung and spend your life tapped up to an oxygen tank, and significantly shorten your life.
This is why it is illegal: google "The Emperor's new Clothes""
DrunkenResistance
beat mason
+13|6219|Bloomington, Indiana
I dont even want to get into this debate... I've written several papers on the subject.  Alcohol is probably the worst thing you can put into your body, especially as far as long term effects are concerned.  As far as money spent by the government, they spend nearly 80 billion a year on putting marijuana smokers through the already full prison systems.

Marijuana has many medical uses and many more to be found where alcohol has none.  I don't want to hear about how a glass of wine every once in a while is good for you.  Where it might have some sort of effect on the body... It doesnt prove to me to have any medical worth.

Last edited by DrunkenResistance (2007-04-25 14:20:39)

sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|6617|InGerLand

jsnipy wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:

i always wondered why Marijuana is illigal and cigs arn't i mean both are addictave and bad for the brain but one of them won't cause various cancers, emphysema, kill others around you, cause you to loose a lung and spend your life tapped up to an oxygen tank, and significantly shorten your life.
This is why it is illegal: google "The Emperor's new Clothes""
wtf lol
i know Marijuana is bad for you, but cigs just seem so much worse overall and yet one is legal and the other not so, surely both sould be legal or illigal?
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6295|Bloomington Indiana
ill take the booze
XanKrieger
iLurk
+60|6657|South West England
One of the reasons ethicaly i believe they are looking toward legalising it is that if they do it will be open season and you'l have everyone going at it, a population of marijuana snokers isnt exactly a good image
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

Gen. Payne wrote:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/categor … _marijuana
Just the first article I found from a credible source (American Medical Association) on the opposing side of the argument. I may try to find some more later

Adverse Effects of Marijuana

Nonmedical use of marijuana continues to be problematic in society. Approximately one third of all Americans over 12 years of age have tried marijuana, usually experimenting first during adolescence.4 However, the age distribution of those who use marijuana among the general population declines sharply after age 34, while most medical marijuana users are more than 35 years of age.4 Since 1997, an increasing percentage of young adults aged 18 to 25 years (up from 12.8% to 16.4%) and a decreasing percentage of youths aged 12 to 17 years (down from 9.4% to 7%) perceive smoking marijuana once or twice a week as presenting great risk of harm.186 It is not clear whether these trends have been influenced by the medical marijuana debate.

Most research on the harmful consequences of marijuana use has been conducted in simulated laboratory environments and in individuals who use cannabis for nonmedical purposes. Some of marijuana’s adverse effects differ in experienced versus inexperienced users, and it is not clear to what extent the adverse effects reported in recreational users are applicable to those who use medical marijuana.

Acutely, marijuana increases heart rate, and blood pressure may decrease on standing. Intoxication is associated with impairment of short-term memory, attention, motor skills, reaction time, and the organization and integration of complex information.187,188 Although dependent on the setting, marijuana can cause relaxation and enhance mood. Ordinary sensory experiences may be intensified, with increased talkativeness, perceptual alterations, and distortion in time sense followed by drowsiness and lethargy. These effects appear to be mediated by CB1 receptors because they are diminished by selective antagonism of the CB1 receptor.189 However, some individuals experience acute anxiety or panic reactions, confusion, dysphoria, paranoia, and psychotic symptoms (eg, delusions, hallucinations).188

Heavy users may experience apathy, lowered motivation, and impaired cognitive performance.188 Chronic marijuana use is associated with development of tolerance to some effects and the appearance of withdrawal symptoms (restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, insomnia, sleep disturbances, nausea, cramping) with the onset of abstinence. Depending on the measures and age group studied, 4% to 9% of marijuana users fulfill diagnostic criteria for substance dependence. Although some marijuana users develop dependence, they appear to be less likely to do so than users of alcohol and nicotine, and the abstinence syndrome is less severe.4,188,190 Like other drugs, dependence is more likely to occur in individuals with co-morbid psychiatric conditions.

Data on drug use progression and the view that marijuana is a "gateway" drug pertain to nonmedical use. However, "present data on drug use progression neither support nor refute the suggestions that medical availability [of marijuana] would increase drug abuse."4 Of comparable or greater concern, are potential adverse effects of cannabinoids and marijuana smoke on the immune, respiratory, cardiovascular, and reproductive systems, and the potential for enhancing carcinogenesis."4

In addition to effects attributable to THC, the chronic effects of marijuana smoke are of perhaps greater concern than marijuana’s acute safety profile. Like tobacco, chronic marijuana smoking is associated with lung damage, increased symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and possibly increased risk of lung cancer.

Cannabinoids impair cell-mediated and humoral immunity in rodents and decrease resistance to infection; however, there is no conclusive evidence that consumption of cannabinoids impairs human immune function, and some evidence suggests that cannabinoids exert anti-tumor effects in human cancer cell lines.191,192 Cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptor agonists exert both inflammatory and anti-inflammatory effects and also appear to modulate hematopoiesis and possibly tumor growth.193 Clearly, cannabinoids are immune modulators, but how they regulate various elements of the human immune response is unclear.194 The initial safety trials in HIV-positive patients are encouraging regarding a lack of apparent marijuana-induced immunosuppression, but these were short-term trials.
Only thing that I can give you is that marijuana users MAY be less likely to become dependent than those who use alcohol or nicotine.
This article doesn't refute what he posted at all.

edit:  basically it says that there are no conclusive/drawn out tests to say - It is a gateway drug, addictive, or highly toxic.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-25 14:28:06)

jsnipy
...
+3,276|6521|...

XanKrieger wrote:

One of the reasons ethicaly i believe they are looking toward legalising it is that if they do it will be open season and you'l have everyone going at it, a population of marijuana snokers isnt exactly a good image
Alcohol is legal, do we have a population full of drunks?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

It is not legal because it has a stigma of being 'bad.'

It is not legal because certain people paid lots of money to make sure hemp is uncultivated in the US.

It is not legal because large companies would have trouble taxing something so easy to grow and use on your own.
Gen. Payne
Member
+50|6705|USA
I haven't tried to refute it. I'm presenting information from the opposite side.

Last edited by Gen. Payne (2007-04-25 14:36:22)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

Gen. Payne wrote:

I haven't tried to refute it. I'm presenting information from the opposite side.
I wouldn't say opposite side, but a scholarly and credible medical source, indeed.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6631|949

They both should be legal.  It should also be a requirement that you hand your keys over when you enter the bar.  Seriously, why do bars even have parking lots?  Punishments should be tougher for drunk driving.  In fact, cars should have breathalyzers in them to make sure no one starts their car drunk.  Probably won't happen though.

By the way, I am a member of DAMM (Drunks Against Mad Mothers)

Jokes, but the real DAMM (drivers against MADD methods) does make some very interesting observations...

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-25 14:49:07)

sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|6617|InGerLand

jsnipy wrote:

XanKrieger wrote:

One of the reasons ethicaly i believe they are looking toward legalising it is that if they do it will be open season and you'l have everyone going at it, a population of marijuana snokers isnt exactly a good image
Alcohol is legal, do we have a population full of drunks?
we do! we do!
i can see 5 drunk people outside my window now it looks like they are going for to ride their 'hardcore' mopeds after having a bit of whitelightning
dumb and soon to be in hospital :-\
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6580|SE London

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Gen. Payne wrote:

I haven't tried to refute it. I'm presenting information from the opposite side.
I wouldn't say opposite side, but a scholarly and credible medical source, indeed.
Kind of the other side.

It's the way they present it to make it sound worse than there is evidence to suggest it is.

AMA wrote:

Like tobacco, chronic marijuana smoking is associated with lung damage, increased symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and possibly increased risk of lung cancer.
Everything I've ever read on the subject has said there has never been a case of lung cancer attributted to cannabis use. There have been some cases of throat cancer attributted to it, but no cases of lung cancer. The AMA do not say there have, but they make it sound that way.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-04-25 14:52:02)

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